• Dear Guest, Please note that adult content is not permitted on this forum. We have had our Google ads disabled at times due to some posts that were found from some time ago. Please do not post adult content and if you see any already on the forum, please report the post so that we can deal with it. Adult content is allowed in the glory hole - you will have to request permission to access it. Thanks, scara

Putin & Russia

P.D. said:
Very odd to televise all these meetings, to be fair before that it was 40 minutes of normal convo then it turned into a pre planned attack for the cameras.
Click to expand...

Zelensky was at the American capital. In a foreign land full of American reporters.

He was speaking in a language which was not his first (I would imagine his 4th or 5th language?)

Being ambushed by the American president and vice president.

He still stood his ground and said “no”.

That takes so much balls. They tried to bully him and humiliate him. He said “No”.

I do so hope we (UK and Europe) back him to achieve the only outcome that is morally justifiable. Ukraine holding all of its internationally agreed borders.
 
Rorschach said:
It was a setup. They needed a pretense to pull the plug on aid and maybe jump from NATO.
Click to expand...
It's 'follow the money'....'i don't want to give you any money to support you in the war Mr Zelensky' 'but those rare earth minerals...yep I do want them'.

I don't think it's an open question anymore...what side is Trump on? Obviously Putin's

However, I actually don't think Russia will be laughing at this blow up....they can clearly see, as anyone can, that this guy is volatile, unpredictable and by continuation, unreliable.
 
ricky2tricky4city said:
It's 'follow the money'....'i don't want to give you any money to support you in the war Mr Zelensky' 'but those rare earth minerals...yep I do want them'.

I don't think it's an open question anymore...what side is Trump on? Obviously Putin's

However, I actually don't think Russia will be laughing at this blow up....they can clearly see, as anyone can, that this guy is volatile, unpredictable and by continuation, unreliable.
Click to expand...
Yup, if Putin doesn't give him what he wants he's as likely to throw his toys out of the pram again.
 
ricky2tricky4city said:
It's 'follow the money'....'i don't want to give you any money to support you in the war Mr Zelensky' 'but those rare earth minerals...yep I do want them'.

I don't think it's an open question anymore...what side is Trump on? Obviously Putin's

However, I actually don't think Russia will be laughing at this blow up....they can clearly see, as anyone can, that this guy is volatile, unpredictable and by continuation, unreliable.
Click to expand...
Oh they are laughing in RU media all right. Celebrating in fact.

Trump is transactional of course but this was not a failed deal. The money thing was peripheral in this discussion. This was not a negotiation for resources IMO. This was a overt flip of alliances (see Hegseth's actions today on cyber defences).
 
DubSpur said:
There's already about 100 billion of further support that has been pledged from Europe. Get that into play and it's enough to ensure that Ukraine survive for another year. After that Russia is fudged. They are already relying on soviet era tanks and the stockpile of them will run our before the end of the year. Their economy is starting to hit trouble and another year of this spending on defence will cripple them.

Europe should be looking to do some deal with Ukraine to pump further weapons in, plus to help rebuild Ukraine in exchange for some of the natural resources.
Click to expand...
The allies .. I won’t name countries… have teams of R&R guys currently posted across this side of the border
When I asked what they meant as R&R it was repair and recover
There are basically teams of expert soldiers recovering damaged equipment and repairing it Poland for Ukraine to crack on
Russia can’t do that as they can’t get their stuff back and don’t have the brains to fix it
 
Rorschach said:
Oh they are laughing in RU media all right. Celebrating in fact.

Trump is transactional of course but this was not a failed deal. The money thing was peripheral in this discussion. This was not a negotiation for resources IMO. This was a overt flip of alliances (see Hegseth's actions today on cyber defences).
Click to expand...
So why's he flipping alliances ?

1. He loves it in the dictators tent.
2. Russia have something on Trump
3. There's got to be a money angle..that's the no.1 importance to Trump

They (Russia)may celebrate tonight as their enemy has had a tough time of it BUT they've got to deal with scatterbrain Trump as well...and I don't think their hand is that strong.

Reports suggest that the minerals that exist in Ukraine are hard to quantify and difficult to extract as it was offered to Obama before and they studied it in depth and that's the conclusion they came to.
 
DubSpur said:
Russia are barely making headway against Ukraine after three years of war. Poland or Germany alone would defeat Russia at this point. The issue is it becomes a loss of life for those countries and not just an economic hit.
Click to expand...

The deal Trump brokered is not available to Europe full stop. Russia will not tolerate that- Europe is a target for them not a threat.

When was the last time Germany and or Polish troops were in combat? We are told that Germany does not consider itself to be properly armed to defend itself let alone launch a military adventure against a potent adversary.

Europe is years away from being able to defend itself from Russia without US assistance.
 
ricky2tricky4city said:
So why's he flipping alliances ?

1. He loves it in the dictators tent.
2. Russia have something on Trump
3. There's got to be a money angle..that's the no.1 importance to Trump

They (Russia)may celebrate tonight as their enemy has had a tough time of it BUT they've got to deal with scatterbrain Trump as well...and I don't think their hand is that strong.

Reports suggest that the minerals that exist in Ukraine are hard to quantify and difficult to extract as it was offered to Obama before and they studied it in depth and that's the conclusion they came to.
Click to expand...
All 3 are factors IMO but my gut says number 2 is the main one, and it has to be bad. Not slept with hookers bad but depraved child stuff bad. Once upon a time Trump and Epstein were charged with child *struggle cuddle* but they threatened the girl bringing the charge and she dropped the case. Trump is all over the Epstein flight log and Epstein had cameras everywhere. That could be the leverage, but who knows.

Yep, the minerals thing is a nothing burger. I've read a bunch of stuff saying that it will be very very hard to monetise in the short/medium term. Zelentsky was using that as a pocket ace but things went south this evening.
 
johnola said:
Europe is years away from being able to defend itself from Russia without US assistance.
Click to expand...

Russia is in need, according to most reports, of 2 -3 years of replenishing its military forces and equipment if it is to do much more than hold the lines in Ukraine - although they may be able to make more rapid progress in Ukraine if the US completely steps away due to lack of air cover.

Europe will hope be in a much stronger and more organised military position within that time frame.

I don’t think it’s necessarily quite so cut and dried as you say.
 
johnola said:
The deal Trump brokered is not available to Europe full stop. Russia will not tolerate that- Europe is a target for them not a threat.

When was the last time Germany and or Polish troops were in combat? We are told that Germany does not consider itself to be properly armed to defend itself let alone launch a military adventure against a potent adversary.

Europe is years away from being able to defend itself from Russia without US assistance.
Click to expand...
It's not. Europe's military is stronger than Russia's. Ukraine was able to grind them to a halt with a lot less than Europe has and that's including the aid that they've been given, with about 60% of that aid coming from Europe. Most of Russia's tanks and artillary are now useless wrecks in Ukraine. Every military report on them states they'll run out of tanks by the end of the year.

As for when they were last in combat, you can say that about nearly all countries. Most of Russia's experienced troops are injured or dead.

Most importantly, Europe's economy is 10 times the size of Russia's. Europe can afford to throw more money at defence than Russia without doing too much damage to the economy.
 
SpiderSpurs said:
Could the UK / France / Germany / Poland sign a pact to help Ukraine in return for some of the $500billion that Trump has just let slip through his fingers?
Click to expand...
That would be the smart move. I have always for 30 years been opposed to the EU on the grounds of democracy. But if I were prime minister I would be going round seeing if special forces from all EU countries could hold the tide back then use air power to push Ukraine borders back to Jan 2023.

Then use the minerals in a fair split between Ukraine and countries that donated aid, not America.

I would also make a point the next to America needs a friend on the world stage by keeping quiet.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back