Politics, politics, politics

[milo]

I don't think we should be trading services. Trade works when you trade different things - traditionally raw materials for manufactured goods. Trading services for services is just pointlessly moving money in circles with a few people creaming off a bit each time. We'd be much better trading advanced manufacturing for more lower end components

It also ignores the cultural/linguistic advantages of re-engaging the rest of the English-speaking world

It's the political machinations of the EU that need destroying. Economic co-operation (even the EEC up-to-1991) is fine

I don't think that is a position that stands up to much scrutiny and I doubt that you could find many economists who would agree with you. Even Patrick Minford, who is the most prominent Brexit supporting economist, takes an opposing view.

 

[milo]

I suspect it is the best deal that doesn't involve freedom of movement.

But polling during and after the campaign showed that people did not put controlling immigration above their own financial security.

Leave won because they convinced enough voters that this was a cost free decision. If it becomes clear that it comes at a cost, then views may change with it. This is why hard Brexiteers are so keen on an early notification.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

She's written a good piece for the Lawyer on yesterday's judgement

https://www.thelawyer.com/issues/online-november-2016/daily-mail-wrong-judiciary

After reading her bio I did not bother to read what she said, her background means she has such a natural bias human rights lawyer(those people who get rich off of the EU and it's laws) that her points are irrelevant to me. I am sure a lot of lawyer type people can sit in a room and come up with anything to justify getting what they want.

As I said Milo your side have won, but what is going to come now or in the near future, the public and social unrest that boiling pot that will explode at some point, it is on the heads of people like her.

 

[StephenH]

All this brexit hyperbole is so funny.
Most of the old codgers who voted leave will be long gone while the youngsters are still trying to get their deposits together for the mortgage to buy a jar of marmite.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

But polling during and after the campaign showed that people did not put controlling immigration above their own financial security.

Leave won because they convinced enough voters that this was a cost free decision. If it becomes clear that it comes at a cost, then views may change with it. This is why hard Brexiteers are so keen on an early notification.

I think I feel most sorry for the Canadians in all this, because this week they got a free trade deal with the EU but they have not been told yet about the fact they have to accept freedom of movement with all EU countries. If it were not so cold out there maybe I would go and look up snowball and she if she is still a spurs fan?

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

All this brexit hyperbole is so funny.
Most of the old codgers who voted leave will be long gone while the youngsters are still trying to get their deposits together for the mortgage to buy a jar of marmite.

I know quite a few youngsters who voted leave because of the over competition in the job market, I know percentage wise more young voted stay, thanks in part to them causing hysteria with the project fear campaign and then extending the date to which people could still sign up to vote.

Still my side has lost, I will show far more class then remain when they lost. I am sad at what will come though.

 

[r-u-s-x]

I don't think we should be trading services. Trade works when you trade different things - traditionally raw materials for manufactured goods. Trading services for services is just pointlessly moving money in circles with a few people creaming off a bit each time. We'd be much better trading advanced manufacturing for more lower end components

It also ignores the cultural/linguistic advantages of re-engaging the rest of the English-speaking world

It's the political machinations of the EU that need destroying. Economic co-operation (even the EEC up-to-1991) is fine

I think we should be trading services, trade works when you trade different things - Trading services works in a similar way as trading "things" due to differences in opportunity costs, this increases potential output for all. We would be much better trading advanced manufacturing for more lower cost end components but we don't have a comparative advantage in this area, to get one will take a lot of investment. Trading Services works in a very similar way to trading "things" if they need that service and you can do it comparatively cheaper than them they can pay using things that have a lower opportunity cost. This is the current consensus to international trade, there may be other views but these would be outliers.

everything else appears to be opinion, I can counter it with "no its not".

 

[milo]

After reading her bio I did not bother to read what she said, her background means she has such a natural bias human rights lawyer(those people who get rich off of the EU and it's laws) that her points are irrelevant to me. I am sure a lot of lawyer type people can sit in a room and come up with anything to justify getting what they want.

As I said Milo your side have won, but what is going to come now or in the near future, the public and social unrest that boiling pot that will explode at some point, it is on the heads of people like her.

I don't see the point in only reading opinions that confirm your prejudices or not being interested in reading the views of someone more knowledgeable on a subject that you or I, particularly in a field like law where there have been so many I'll informed comments over the last day or so.

My side haven't won and there is no prospect of it winning. The only interest that I have now is wanting this to be as painless as possible and wanting to preserve parliamentary democracy.

 

[Seedy Ron]

Still my side has lost, I will show far more class then remain when they lost. I am sad at what will come though.

You're being rather silly now Chich.

Daily Mail silly.

 

[StephenH]

I know quite a few youngsters who voted leave because of the over competition in the job market, I know percentage wise more young voted stay, thanks in part to them causing hysteria with the project fear campaign and then extending the date to which people could still sign up to vote.

Still my side has lost, I will show far more class then remain when they lost. I am sad at what will come though.

I'm not that bothered as I'm of an age and have enough behind me not to worry.
I feel sorry for both side, prices will rise a lot and those who voted out and are still alive will wonder why they bothered.

We will see how it pans out in 2025 or later

 

[milo]

All this brexit hyperbole is so funny.
Most of the old codgers who voted leave will be long gone while the youngsters are still trying to get their deposits together for the mortgage to buy a jar of marmite.

Let's hope for a cold winter and a second referendum in the spring.*









*I shouldn't need to spell this out but this is a joke. I don't wish death on anyone*.















*Apart from Piers Morgan.








*and Paul Dacre.












* and Rupert Murdoch.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

You're being rather silly now Chich.

Daily Mail silly.

Not really, it is as clear as day what is going to happen, I shall not have the hissy fit that some on here had after the result was not what they wanted.

The is already talk from people I know about how to react, reacting in a way I shall not do as I have my own problems and my life is centred on my wife and son, but others will find this more important and react to the treason.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

I'm not that bothered as I'm of an age and have enough behind me not to worry.
I feel sorry for both side, prices will rise a lot and those who voted out and are still alive will wonder why they bothered.

We will see how it pans out in 2025 or later

I am probably of a similar age, I wont ever bother voting in an election again I have said this before and will stick to it, I still follow politics though, hard not to. The working class are so despised in this country now and I find that sad I really wonder when it happened that people started hating the working class.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

Anyone know how the Canadians took it this week when they were told they had to let the EU decide whether their prison population get to vote, or who can fish in Canadian waters or that Judges in Brussels can over rule decisions made in Canada and that they also have to accept freedom of movement with all EU countries?

 

[milo]

Not really, it is as clear as day what is going to happen, I shall not have the hissy fit that some on here had after the result was not what they wanted.

The is already talk from people I know about how to react, reacting in a way I shall not do as I have my own problems and my life is centred on my wife and son, but others will find this more important and react to the treason.

What is going to happen? Would you have reacted like this if May had said that she planned to put it to a parliamentary vote from the off?

 

[milo]

Anyone know how the Canadians took it this week when they were told they had to let the EU decide whether their prison population get to vote, or who can fish in Canadian waters or that Judges in Brussels can over rule decisions made in Canada and that they also have to accept freedom of movement with all EU countries?

I think that you have misunderstood the nature of the agreement between the EU and Canada.

 

[milo]

Anyone know how the Canadians took it this week when they were told they had to let the EU decide whether their prison population get to vote, or who can fish in Canadian waters or that Judges in Brussels can over rule decisions made in Canada and that they also have to accept freedom of movement with all EU countries?

I think that you have misunderstood the nature of the agreement between the EU and Canada.

 

[Seedy Ron]

The is already talk from people I know about how to react

You must know some proper dullards then.

We're leaving the EU, that's what you voted for and that's what you'll get.

It would be pretty amusing to see a bunch of brexiteers protesting against the parliamentary sovereignty they were so desperately keen on a few months ago though, so you should encourage that.

 

[the dza]

But polling during and after the campaign showed that people did not put controlling immigration above their own financial security.

Leave won because they convinced enough voters that this was a cost free decision. If it becomes clear that it comes at a cost, then views may change with it. This is why hard Brexiteers are so keen on an early notification.

Polling showed that the 'remain' vote was going to win.

I agree that the leave campaign tried to make out that it would be, as you say, "cost free" to leave the EU. I also agree with you that if it becomes clear that there is a high price to pay for leaving, then views can change.

However, the thrust of the leave campaign was 'control' and specifically, control of borders. If the leave campaign had said that we'd have free movement, even if we voted to leave the EU, they would never have won. The majority of those working class voters, many of them voting for something for the first time, would simply not have bothered to vote. To deny that immigration was the key factor in the leave vote is to deny the very thing that sowed the seeds of the referendum in the first place. This is why May is making such a big thing of free movement -- she knows that if she ignores it, it will damage her politically and give people a reason to support UKIP.

 

[milo]

Polling showed that the 'remain' vote was going to win.

They didn't. The polls online polls consistently showed a majority for leave, the telephone polls tended to show a remain lead. The YouGov poll released on the day of the referendum showed remain vote of 55%.