Politics, politics, politics

[Baleforce]

Forget a century. Short term there would have been anarchy. People would put their cards into bank machines, only to find no money in their account. How would you personally have reacted to that?

Businesses that were with the wrong banks would have collapsed overnight. Viable businesses. Other healthy banks would have fallen apart too as people took out all their cash.

Money only works when everyone has faith in it.

So unregulated markets don't work...unless you're an anarchist.

terribly, i'd have been fudging suicidal, but i'm an individual, and therefore irrelevant, that's the complication and the dichotomy of what we are dealing with

yep

no, money works when money has faith in money

I couldn't be further from an anarchist, all I want is for everything to be kind of ok for me and my kids, if that sounds selfish it's because it completely and utterly is

my opinion is that the only thing you can trust is people's greed and self preservation, so that's what you anchor on, not morals, or any other lie people tell themselves to sleep at night

 

[r-u-s-x01]

but you only achieve that market position when you have something genuinely unique, no new enterprise goes unimitated

that's a leveraging of your prior smart decision making

it's preventative not reactionary

Lost me there with preventative and not reactionary? It's just as much regulating markets as anti monopoly law. Both resolving market failure

Left alone the market does not reward innovation as people can copy it. Regulation resolves this

Left alone the market allows companies to abuse their dominant position. Regulation resolves this

 

[Baleforce]

Hmmm if you were correct the rises in petrol prices over the past 3 decades should have done something. But I don't think they have. Regulation on the other hand has allowed electric cars to drive around tax free and subsidised.

re. Money only works when everyone believes in it. These stones were money in the Rai south sea islands

pump price has increased but are we not still some way from inflation adjusted highs?

 

[Baleforce]

Lost me there with preventative and not reactionary? It's just as much regulating markets as anti monopoly law. Both resolving market failure

my point being that they are existing laws and the markets have to perform within them rather than there being a delayed response to any particular trend in free trading

they are the walls of the sandpit rather than the dunes and slides of the sand within it

 

[Baleforce]

Lost me there with preventative and not reactionary? It's just as much regulating markets as anti monopoly law. Both resolving market failure

Left alone the market does not reward innovation as people can copy it. Regulation resolves this

Left alone the market allows companies to abuse their dominant position. Regulation resolves this

regulation doesn't reward innovation, a superior product does, regulations makes a lot of money for patent lawyers (fair play to them)

dominant companies can only "abuse" to a point, if a product has no value nobody will buy it

 

[SpurMeUp]

regulation doesn't reward innovation, a superior product does, regulations makes a lot of money for patent lawyers (fair play to them)

dominant companies can only "abuse" to a point, if a product has no value nobody will buy it

How do you explain electric cars? Subsidised sales prices, no tax, greater access like no congestion charge and free parking, all forms of regulation that helped get them off the ground. Innovation rewarded and stimulated by regulation no?

 

[r-u-s-x01]

regulation doesn't reward innovation, a superior product does, regulations makes a lot of money for patent lawyers (fair play to them)

dominant companies can only "abuse" to a point, if a product has no value nobody will buy it

A superior product does not reward innovation without strong regulation (copyright) to stop others undercutting you.

Good night, sweet dreams

 

[Baleforce]

How do you explain electric cars? Subsidised sales prices, no tax, greater access like no congestion charge and free parking, all forms of regulation that helped get them off the ground. Innovation rewarded and stimulated by regulation no?

they'll make a fudge tonne of money when fossil fuels run out

 

[SpurMeUp]

they'll make a fudge tonne of money when fossil fuels run out

Sure. But no one would be buying them when they were 4 times the price of a petrol car....without government intervention

 

[Baleforce]

A superior product does not reward innovation without strong regulation (copyright) to stop others undercutting you.

Good night, sweet dreams

night night ;-)

quality will always tell, you can undercut on price but only at expense on materials

look at Apple and Samsung, similar sales, a huge disparity in market profits, Apple have a smartphone monopoly

 

[Baleforce]

Sure. But no one would be buying them when they were 4 times the price of a petrol car....without government intervention.

I don't think government intervention is a factor, I mostly put it down to a superiority complex and forward thinking r&d

Toyota don't give a fudge about the environment but they still want to be making money a hundred years from now, Tesla just want enough money to colonise Mars, so they can make even more money

 

[SpurMeUp]

I don't think government intervention is a factor, I mostly put it down to a superiority complex

If there was no subsidisation, grants, reduced taxes, no one would continue to develop electric cars any further as they wouldn't sell. The first ones would cost a fortune and no one would buy.

Markets are not as smart or effective as you think. They are just as basic and short term as peoples search for profit. With intervention they are sustainable.

 

[r-u-s-x01]

night night ;-)

quality will always tell, you can undercut on price but only at expense on materials

look at Apple and Samsung, similar sales, a huge disparity in market profits, Apple have a smartphone monopoly

Yes regulation (copyright) stops me manufacturing the exact same iPhone branding materials etc. Or printing and selling the Harry Potter books, good luck with arguing the superior product tgen.

Xx

 

[Baleforce]

If there was no subsidisation, grants, reduced taxes, no one would continue to develop electric cars any further as they wouldn't sell. The first ones would cost a fortune and no one would buy.

Markets are not as smart or effective as you think. They are just as basic as peoples search for profit. With intervention they work well however.

look at the successful electric vehicle manufacturers, they didn't need govt handouts or tax breaks, they are in it for profit

 

[SpurMeUp]

look at the successful electric vehicle manufacturers, they didn't need govt handouts or tax breaks, they are in it for profit

Humbly I suggest you do just that. All have had some form of government break, subsidy or funding. From funding for Tesla to LA government subsidising purchases of electric cars. Not even mentioning tax breaks for motorists.https://www.gov.uk/plug-in-car-van-grants/eligibility

 

[Baleforce]

Yes regulation (copyright) stops me manufacturing the exact same iPhone branding materials etc. Or printing and selling the Harry Potter books, good luck with arguing the superior product tgen.

Xx

look at it realistically, copyright law doesn't work, Samsung have sold an incredible number of knock off iphones (the superior products don't burst into flames by the way), likewise there have been hundreds of young wizard stories published

the money still flows to Cupertino and Rowling

 

[Baleforce]

Humbly I suggest you do just that. All have had some form of government break, subsidy or funding. From funding for Tesla to LA government subsidising purchases of electric cars. Not even mentioning tax breaks for motorists of these cars.

https://www.gov.uk/plug-in-car-van-grants/eligibility

i'm sure Musk took all he could get, but he didn't need it, and he's not doing this to reduce his carbon footprint

I'm not arguing that incentives are there to owners, i'm cynical of the underlying reason though

 

[SpurMeUp]

i'm sure Musk took all he could get, but he didn't need it, and he's not doing this to reduce his carbon footprint

I'm not arguing that incentives are there to owners, i'm cynical of the underlying reason though

Without $5 billion in government subsidy, http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-hy-musk-subsidies-20150531-story.html we wouldn't have a Tesla car. Call it a night!

 

[Baleforce]

Humbly I suggest you do just that. All have had some form of government break, subsidy or funding. From funding for Tesla to LA government subsidising purchases of electric cars. Not even mentioning tax breaks for motorists.

https://www.gov.uk/plug-in-car-van-grants/eligibility

Elon Musk's growing empire is fueled by $4.9 billion in government subsidies
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-hy-musk-subsidies-20150531-story.html

just noticed your edit, it's obviously a lot of money for Tesla right now, but long term I think it's not a big number for Musk industries

also, I was kinda meaning Toyota, although I completely agree Tesla are the first name people think of for electric vehicles

 

[Baleforce]

Without $5 billion in government subsidy, http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-hy-musk-subsidies-20150531-story.html we wouldn't have a Tesla car. Call it a night!

ah, so that includes Space X too?