Politics, politics, politics

[Gilzeantoscore]

Yes and because the tories were to scared to make proper cuts that the country needed, I would liken it to taking off a plaster fast and quick, sure a few companies would have gone bust. But they would have been replaced by new ones.

The fact that interest rates are so low is criminal in my opinion and has encouraged the spend spend spend nature of so many of the public and indeed government departments. Seeing these ads on t.v. for loan companies it is almost like the country did not learn its lesson.

Now is the time for government to borrow, to build valuable infrastructure, to boost economic efficiencies into the future. Money is cheap, so government should take advantage of that fact.

 

[scaramanga]

Now is the time for government to borrow, to build valuable infrastructure, to boost economic efficiencies into the future. Money is cheap, so government should take advantage of that fact.

It's not the government's place to prop up inefficient industries, nor to pick winners.

Now is the time to reduce the costs of employment and investment and let business find its own way out of it

 

[Gilzeantoscore]

It's not the government's place to propose up inefficient industries, nor to pick winners.

Now is the time to reduce the costs of employment and investment and business find its own way out of it

I did not write that! I wrote that valuable infrastructure could be built on cheap money. Up-dating ports, rail, bridges, air ports, roads and other nation building projects, which will pay a big efficiency dividend into the future.

 

[scaramanga]

I did not write that! I wrote that valuable infrastructure could be built on cheap money. Up-dating ports, rail, bridges, air ports, roads and other nation building projects, which will pay a big efficiency dividend into the future.

My apologies - I read it as a call to stimulate the economy. We're not best placed to be able to take advantage of such low (even negative) rates because of the debt Gordon Brown put us in. Had we used those good times to pay down our debts as we should, then we absolutely should be taking advantage and borrowing while it costs nothing.

It would lead to another issue though, who builds and upgrades that infrastructure? The government has to award contracts to someone. And they will be distorting the market in some way by doing so.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

Now is the time for government to borrow, to build valuable infrastructure, to boost economic efficiencies into the future. Money is cheap, so government should take advantage of that fact.

Totally agree, and if the skills needed for such projects a bit like with crossrail in London if we need the worlds best expert for drilling tunnels bring him/her in and I do not care what country they are from and I do not care if it puts up the backs of the few racists that might have voted leave.

My only concern with some of these projects is how they are financed, we should not be looking to be sitting on a PPI time bomb. I understand why Labour went down that path to get things built but in the long run it leaves us worse off, so we need to be careful how the deals are structured.

 

[monkeybarry]

It's not the government's place to prop up inefficient industries, nor to pick winners.

Now is the time to reduce the costs of employment and investment and let business find its own way out of it

Do you mean by reducing the cost of labour?

Because if so, this country WILL grind to a halt.

There seems to be little ethical capitalism around, so the result of free reign will be disastrous

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

A good read that gives a different side to the economy at the moment.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business...nd-the-uk-is-fine---lets-stop-the-negativity/

 

[scaramanga]

Do you mean by reducing the cost of labour?

Because if so, this country WILL grind to a halt.

There seems to be little ethical capitalism around, so the result of free reign will be disastrous

Not just the price of labour, although that's a massive start. The related costs that are in legislation, employers NI, NEST, etc. are all a massive drain on employment too.

 

[monkeybarry]

Not just the price of labour, although that's a massive start. The related costs that are in legislation, employers NI, NEST, etc. are all a massive drain on employment too.

Ah, you mean the 51st state but without the benefits.

I do predict that for the UK future

 

[scaramanga]

Just a state that realises people being employed is a good thing would do.

 

[monkeybarry]

Just a state that realises people being employed is a good thing would do.

4.8% I would argue is slightly ahead of the UK's natural rate of unemployment and is a very healthy level.

Although there are certainly issues (see sports direct as an extreme example) within that labour force. But cost of living should be the focus.
I'm not personally in favour of the cut in corporation tax, however I do recognise that if we tackle cost of living we need to get wage inflation massively outstripping price inflation. Hopefully the corporation tax reduction will find its way into wages - I remain sceptical, especially in the years running up to Brexit and a few (5?) post Brexit as companies will be cautious with such investment.

 

[scaramanga]

4.8% I would argue is slightly ahead of the UK's natural rate of unemployment and is a very healthy level.

Although there are certainly issues (see sports direct as an extreme example) within that labour force. But cost of living should be the focus.
I'm not personally in favour of the cut in corporation tax, however I do recognise that if we tackle cost of living we need to get wage inflation massively outstripping price inflation. Hopefully the corporation tax reduction will find its way into wages - I remain sceptical, especially in the years running up to Brexit and a few (5?) post Brexit as companies will be cautious with such investment.

The "living wage" is the worst possible way to do that. Not only does it increase costs and therefore prices (negating the benefit of raising it) but it also leaves more income in the hands of the lowest paid - which means most of the inflation will be in essentials not luxuries. Obviously that's the worst kind of inflation if you want to narrow the wealth gap.

The cut in corporation tax will almost certainly not find its way into wages, as the companies best placed to benefit from it are those with more automation and fewer employees. Those that employ a lot of staff will ay best break even on the changes.

 

[monkeybarry]

The "living wage" is the worst possible way to do that. Not only does it increase costs and therefore prices (negating the benefit of raising it) but it also leaves more income in the hands of the lowest paid - which means most of the inflation will be in essentials not luxuries. Obviously that's the worst kind of inflation if you want to narrow the wealth gap.

The cut in corporation tax will almost certainly not find its way into wages, as the companies best placed to benefit from it are those with more automation and fewer employees. Those that employ a lot of staff will ay best break even on the changes.

However, many of the companies that supply essentials are big enough to benefit from the c.tax reduction and offset any wage increase whilst also benefitting from the increased spend on the products it sells.
What the higher wage provides a little bit more choice with propensity to spend from said increase. (That's badly worded, but I can't be bothered to retype it!)

 

[K.D.D.D.D.Soc]

4.8% I would argue is slightly ahead of the UK's natural rate of unemployment and is a very healthy level.

Although there are certainly issues (see sports direct as an extreme example) within that labour force. But cost of living should be the focus.
I'm not personally in favour of the cut in corporation tax, however I do recognise that if we tackle cost of living we need to get wage inflation massively outstripping price inflation. Hopefully the corporation tax reduction will find its way into wages - I remain sceptical, especially in the years running up to Brexit and a few (5?) post Brexit as companies will be cautious with such investment.

It's only a healthy level if you live in an area where that is the rate, in some areas it's between 15-17%. I know the lazy bastards should move to South East and get one of many affordable homes available and pray they can get a school place for their children, some people just don't want to help themselves.

 

[scaramanga]

However, many of the companies that supply essentials are big enough to benefit from the c.tax reduction and offset any wage increase whilst also benefitting from the increased spend on the products it sells.
What the higher wage provides a little bit more choice with propensity to spend from said increase. (That's badly worded, but I can't be bothered to retype it!)

That assumes that everyone providing those essentials wants a race to the bottom on price.

Over the long term you can raise income and the market will keeps prices at the minimum of cost + profit, but if you give everyone a sudden jump in earnings and then promise the same again and again, prices will expand to fill the void.

 

[parklane1]

A good read that gives a different side to the economy at the moment.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business...nd-the-uk-is-fine---lets-stop-the-negativity/

It will be ignored by some but yes it does show that a lot of it was scare tactics. Its still far to early to say for sure what will happen but at least we are not dead and buried like so many were forecasting.

 

[SpurMeUp]

It will be ignored by some but yes it does show that a lot of it was scare tactics. Its still far to early to say for sure what will happen but at least we are not dead and buried like so many were forecasting.

What I find fascinating is how biased we all are. If you've set your stall out one way, that's it. Personally, I enjoy reading the articles that meet my bias, and the others don't interest me so much. I suspect the same is true in reverse. Ultimately I know i am right!

This Brexit sh1t is boring now. Its a soap opera I no longer want to watch, but we're all subjected to as its so fundamental to our nations future. No one knows how it will play out, how will affect us. So much is to be decided. Brexit means Brexit. But know one knows what Brexit is!

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

Owen Smith's policy announcement

1. A pledge to focus on equality of outcome, not equality of opportunity. 2. Scrapping the DWP and replacing it with a Ministry for Labour and a Department for Social Security.
3. Introducing modern wages councils for hotel, shop and care workers to strengthen terms and conditions.
4. Banning zero hour contracts.
5. Ending the public sector pay freeze.
6. Extending the right to information and consultation to cover all workplaces with more than 50 employees.
7. Ensuring workers’ representation on remuneration committees.
8. Repealing the Trade Union Act.
9. Increase spending on the NHS by 4% in real-terms in every year of the next parliament.
10. Commit to bringing NHS funding up to the European average within the first term of a Labour Government.
11. Greater spending on schools and libraries.
12. Re-instate the 50p top rate of income tax.
13. Reverse the reductions in Corporation Tax due to take place over the next four years.
14. Reverse cuts to Inheritance Tax announced in the Summer Budget.
15. Reverse cuts to Capital Gains Tax announced in the Summer Budget.
16. Introduce a new wealth Tax on the top 1% earners.
17. A British New Deal unveiling £200bn of investment over five years.
18. A commitment to invest tens of billions in the North of England, and to bring forward High Speed 3.
19. A pledge to build 300,000 homes in every year of the next parliament – 1.5 million over five years.
20. Ending the scandal of fuel poverty by investing in efficient energy.

Not sure where to start on all that, if he ends the public sector pay freeze I imagine those wages would start rising at an unsustainable level again, repealing the Trade uninon act?? why so the country can be brought to its knees again, southern railway are doing a good job of trying to do that round my way already.

Greater public spending in schools is a lovely idea, but where will the money come from because he wants to reverse the reductions in corporation tax, that thing that attracts companies to the country and those here to expand.

Introduce a wealth tax on the top 1% the top 1% that already pay more into the treasury then others and who we should be trying to keep in the country as they usually bring money into the country.

I am not sure if he is drunk or mad or both.

 

[Seedy Ron]

Has anyone worked out who he is yet?

I'd imagine JC would be supportive of a lot of that. Maybe he just deleted "21. No nukes"?

 

[scaramanga]

I'll translate for everyone:

1. A pledge to focus on equality of outcome, not equality of opportunity.

Lifting the bottom up was too difficult, so we're just going to level things by dragging the top down. The politics of envy is alive and well.

2. Scrapping the DWP and replacing it with a Ministry for Labour and a Department for Social Security.

We will be putting 1M people into work digging holes. Then we'll put another 1M into work filling them

3. Introducing modern wages councils for hotel, shop and care workers to strengthen terms and conditions.

I will be renaming the UK - it is now known as "Inflationland"

4. Banning zero hour contracts.

Increasing unemployment, lowering productivity, increasing the cost of just about everything and removing a useful stepping stone between unemployment and employment

5. Ending the public sector pay freeze.

Spending money we don't have

6. Extending the right to information and consultation to cover all workplaces with more than 50 employees.
7. Ensuring workers’ representation on remuneration committees.

Putting decisions in the hands of those least qualified to make them

8. Repealing the Trade Union Act.

Because what Trades Unions really need is more power.

Inflationland is now closed for business.

9. Increase spending on the NHS by 4% in real-terms in every year of the next parliament.

Meh. You pretty much can't get elected nowadays without promising the NHS a rimjob, a reacharound and the blood of your firstborn son - not much else he could have said.

10. Commit to bringing NHS funding up to the European average within the first term of a Labour Government.

Because spending is what matters. fudge results, as long as we spend, spend spend.

I've taken a cursory look at European healthcare systems and learned absolutely nothing whatsoever about their structures, provision and efficiency so I've fallen back on good old spend, spend, spend.

11. Greater spending on schools and libraries.

See 5.

12. Re-instate the 50p top rate of income tax.
13. Reverse the reductions in Corporation Tax due to take place over the next four years.
14. Reverse cuts to Inheritance Tax announced in the Summer Budget.
15. Reverse cuts to Capital Gains Tax announced in the Summer Budget.
16. Introduce a new wealth Tax on the top 1% earners.

See 1.

In case you didn't get the message, Inflationland is closed for business.

17. A British New Deal unveiling £200bn of investment over five years.
18. A commitment to invest tens of billions in the North of England, and to bring forward High Speed 3.

See 2 & 5.

19. A pledge to build 300,000 homes in every year of the next parliament – 1.5 million over five years.

One of my advisers mentioned to me that the UK economy relies heavily on a steady and stable housing market.

fudge 'em, I wanna see it all burn.

20. Ending the scandal of fuel poverty by investing in efficient energy.

I have no issue with this except for the emotive language. Only concern is that when Labour say "invest", they don't normally mean invest, they normally mean "spend"

@Danishfurniturelover - he's neither mad nor drunk IMO, he just went full depart.