Politics, politics, politics

[Baleforce]

I'm sorry, can anyone seriously offer me a proper manifesto from the Brexit campaign? I am aware of the 'immigration argument' but is there anything else? Do they have a stated series of plans to discuss how Britain
*becomes an export powerhouse by itself
*regenerates itself into an economy that isn't dominated by the service industry (because let's face it, that's what will need to happen here)
*deals with the immigrants here
*differentiates between the immigrants who are here (what about the Irish, for example? Should they now be kicked out?)
*continue to work with our European neighbours in a diplomatic and productive way
...look, the list of questions I have goes on and on. \
Let's face it, they don't have a fudgeing clue.

My biggest concern here is the traction that right-wing nationalists worldwide will get from this result...

glad I'm not the only one

 

[Baleforce]

"I would HOPE that EVERYONE who voted for Brexit understands what they were voting for."

Do you genuinely believe that the reverse is the case, everybody who voted to stay fully understood what they were voting for?

"I am aware of the 'immigration argument' but is there anything else?"

You will be aware of the "immigration argument" because the remain campaign made quite a good job of painting a picture of Brexit supporters as having no other reason to vote leave, when in fact the majority took time to consider all the arguments and consequences of their decision, as indeed did the remain supporters.

people who voted leave did so because they wanted to change something

people who didn't vote leave, be that those who ticked remain or those that didn't vote at all, seemingly preferred to continue as we were

that's not a balanced situation, there is more onus on understanding what will change before voting for it surely?

 

[SpurMeUp]

Personally, I think the best solution for us is to have free trade, freedom of movement and none of the rest of it.

I can see the EU going for that too seeing as freedom of movement was their only response when we were discussing free trade. The problem will be getting it past the electorate.

That's pretty much how it is now. There probably is too much red tape, but it doesn't really affect us; not half as much as its bitched about.

Regarding the banks and financial institutions, of course they are not going to come out and say we're considering moving our operations. It would lead to more panic and do no one good. Moreover, we're not out the EU, and it is far from clear what our relationship will look like with the EU. So of course there are few quotes saying they'll up roots. What the article shows is that banks are not ruling it out and are keeping their options open. Behind the scenes, they will be making contingencies.

The beauty of money is its easy to measure. If you make more working from Germany, it will happen. Its cold mathematics.

 

[Gilzeantoscore]

Ha, ha is anyone surprised that Scaramanga defended Thatcher? Nobody mate! How surprisement your comment was.

 

[Bullet]

Yes, people with shi.tty lives voted for change and vice versa. Then self justified that afterwards.

I can understand poor northerners and Welshies voting for change, it must be awful being them. Ironic that they will be the ones that suffer most.

 

[SpurMeUp]

I am astonished how The Times came out as pro Brexit (the Sunday Times) but now they are awash with Bregret!

For make no mistake, it is the old people who did this to us. I assume you have seen the voting breakdown by age? In the 18-24 group it was 64 per cent to Remain and 24 per cent to Leave. In the 25-49 age group it was 45 per cent to 39. Only in the 50-64 bracket does the balance shift, going over to 49 per cent for Leave, as against 35 for Remain. And then among the over-65s it was an astonishing 58 per cent for Leave, against 33 per cent for Remain.

The less time a person had left on earth to live and face up to their decision, in other words, the more likely they were to vote to leave the European Union.

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/comment/wrinklies-have-well-and-truly-stitched-us-up-qfz509cz8

Haha:

The wrinkly bastards stitched us young ’uns up good and proper on Thursday. From their stairlifts and their zimmer frames, their electric recliner beds and their walk-in baths, they reached out with their wizened old writing hands to make their wobbly crosses and screwed their children and their children’s children for a thousand generations.

The older people get, the more they think they have earned the right to do and think whatever they damn well please. And this leads to their being wrong. About everything. Not just about elasticated waistbands, brightly coloured outerwear, fluffy little pale blue hairdos, big chunky spectacles, beige trousers,Countdown and young people today. About everything.

And then of course there is immigration. A report for the World Bank in 2012 found that, “It is old people everywhere who oppose immigration the most, across the board. In every country for which we have data (except Sweden) older natives disproportionately oppose immigration, regardless of income, education and employment status.”

And don’t go telling me that we owe at least a debt of respect to the elderly. Respect for what? Don’t confuse the elderly of today with the elderly of the recent past. This lot did not fight a war (not many of them). They didn’t free us from the yoke of tyranny. They didn’t live in modesty and hardship and hunger so that future generations might thrive. They just enjoyed high employment, good pay, fat benefits, enormous pension privileges, international travel, the birth of pop music and lashings of free sex. We don’t owe them a thing. We should cut them off. Rewrite the franchise to start at 16 and end at 60 and do this thing all over again.

 

[Gilzeantoscore]

Hey, Scara is the personification of modern Britain, he claimed to vote to stay, but his commentary is all over the place. Just what does he stand for?

 

[parklane1]

people who voted leave did so because they wanted to change something

people who didn't vote leave, be that those who ticked remain or those that didn't vote at all, seemingly preferred to continue as we were

that's not a balanced situation, there is more onus on understanding what will change before voting for it surely?

The country is in a mess and those voted to continue in the way we are put less thought into it then those that wanted to change it from that mess.

It looks to me that there are a lot of people who voted just because they are scared of change and are happy with the inequality, health service dying on its feet, lack of places for children in schools etc, etc. The onus should be looking to try and change those situations not sit back and accept them getting worse.

 

[mephitis]

people who voted leave did so because they wanted to change something

people who didn't vote leave, be that those who ticked remain or those that didn't vote at all, seemingly preferred to continue as we were

that's not a balanced situation, there is more onus on understanding what will change before voting for it surely?

Thursday was a day to plot the future course of the UK, surely it is equally incumbent on both sides to understand the consequences of their vote. My point was that as with any such situation there is always a broad spread of "Understanding".

 

[Baleforce]

The country is in a mess and those voted to continue in the way we are put less thought into it then those that wanted to change it from that mess.

It looks to me that there are a lot of people who voted just because they are scared of change and are happy with the inequality, health service dying on its feet, lack of places for children in schools etc, etc. The onus should be looking to try and change those situations not sit back and accept them getting worse.

some people might well be happy with all that, their choice their vote right?

 

[SpurMeUp]

Hey, Scara is the personification of modern Britain, he claimed to vote to stay, but his commentary is all over the place. Just what does he stand for?

Yes it has distinct echoes of Brexiters in the Conservative party. Boris for example. They dislike the red tape associated with socialists in Brussels, and the imagery of the EU, but when rational they don't mind the EU - they appreciate the free single market and don't even mind immigration. What has Boris unleashed? The Genie is out the bottle, maybe only Boris can sneak it back in.

 

[Baleforce]

Thursday was a day to plot the future course of the UK, surely it is equally incumbent on both sides to understand the consequences of their vote. My point was that as with any such situation there is always a broad spread of "Understanding".

it's two thought chains,

"am I happy with this current course, yeah, I guess I am" takes less thought than "no, I'm incredibly cheesed off, I'd like this, that and the other to happen, does voting for one resolution or the other tie in with my interests?"

 

[parklane1]

Thursday was a day to plot the future course of the UK, surely it is equally incumbent on both sides to understand the consequences of their vote. My point was that as with any such situation there is always a broad spread of "Understanding".

Indeed, the folks had a chance with a democratic vote to change a system which was failing and took it, unfortuately there are some who will not accept the conclusion ( because it does not suit their choice) and now just want to bitch about those who voted different to them are/were had no idea what they voted for.

Poor losers.

 

[parklane1]

No one should be kicked out Steff and I don't think anyone but a very small minority of far right idiots would even think that's a possibility - what it hopefully means is that we have better control of who comes in to the country. You say yourself that large numbers of British nationals are no longer qualified to work in certain industries so why are we allowing in unskilled migrant workers to make their opportunities even less? It doesn't stack up imo


With regards to the rest people seem to be working on the assumption that because a lot of our trade revolves around EU trade deals that we're buggered, but all that means is that there will be a period of adjustment as we renegotiate those deals on our terms.

My girlfriend works for Citigroup and was distraught yesterday morning when she checked the results - she's been working herself up about what it will mean for her and the banking industry, well last night after a day at work she was much more relaxed and said the overall opinion from work was that after an initial period of instability things will settle down and carry on as normal and the end of days which had been predicted was nothing more than hyperbole

A very good post and sums it all up better then my efforts have, well done.

 

[glasgowspur]

Ha, ha is anyone surprised that Scaramanga defended Thatcher? Nobody mate! How surprisement your comment was.

I take it it's me you're meaning? I didn't defend thatcher at all, as you obviously noticed on reading my post again and edited your own. The blame falls on a lot of shoulders over this and we will get nowhere dragging out old and irrelevant demons.

 

[Gilzeantoscore]

I take it it's me you're meaning? I didn't defend thatcher at all, as you obviously noticed on reading my post again and edited your own. The blame falls on a lot of shoulders over this and we will get nowhere dragging out old and irrelevant demons.

No the man himself...well the very confused one Scara!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Opps I think I owe Scara an apology, Glasgow Spur pulled a swifty on me.

PS The editing was because there was a grammatical error.

 

[SpurMeUp]

The country is in a mess and those voted to continue in the way we are put less thought into it then those that wanted to change it from that mess.

It looks to me that there are a lot of people who voted just because they are scared of change and are happy with the inequality, health service dying on its feet, lack of places for children in schools etc, etc. The onus should be looking to try and change those situations not sit back and accept them getting worse.

Completely agree we should be focused on righting these important issues. Problem is Government will now be focused on dealing with Brexit, a massive amount of work for all Government Departments. These important issues have been erroneously attributed to the EU. The health service, school places and inequality has very little to do with the EU. The UK controls these areas, as well as how many migrants come in from outside the EU into the UK; and we had more coming in from outside the EU than from the EU.

So was the problem the EU, or the UK government in your opinion?

Affordable Housing, Inequality, Skills Development, School Places, the overstretched Health Service are the real issues. We could have borrowed more, to invest in housing for example. It probably would have stimulated the economy, and helped people (but Miliband who proposed this had a terrible image and was un-electable). So this government has held-off borrowing more to provide any of these things, spending has contracted, and the Conservatives don't mind you blaming the EU for it all.

We should be cutting government spending in many areas imo. The civil service is horribly inefficient, welfare needs reform etc. But we should also be investing in peoples skills and housing. If migrants are coming here better qualified than our own people, then we need to invest in our own people with better schools and training, and everyone deserves to have a home. Two basic principles that this government has neglected, in favour of keeping the markets, bankers, home and company owners - in short 'their own' the wealthy - happy. But that is what the Conservative Party has always been about. Their name comes from conserving the wealth and power for the elite. That is their history. Nurses are effectively paying for millionaire bankers. Teachers don't get pay rises, as we bail out banks. There is massive inequality and injustice and this government has not addressed it. What has this got to do with the EU?

That you blame the EU for things that are under our national control is no bad thing for this Government.

 

[Hotshot-Tottenham]

Not at all.

"Return them when it's safe"

That's a policy for refugees, not migrants.

 

[Crab.C.Nesbitt]

For those that don't agree with Brexit!

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215/signatures/thank-you

 

[Hotshot-Tottenham]

How can you say they haven't made things worse? Hypothetically, if you removed them all how could it not ease the stress on NHS, Schools and every other service we're struggling with?

Because migrants are a net tax contributor to the UK economy.

As for refugees, yes - of course we should offer shelter. These humans who are just like us, are being bombed in their own towns by terror organisations. Are we that heartless that we put a longer wait at the GP over the very life of another?