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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

richie_spur said:
Whilst I agree lots of people voted for different things and for different reasons, it wasn't just Leave supporters. I know plenty of Remain supporters who voted Remain as they like a European holiday each year and they thought they wouldn't be allowed. There's no accounting for stupidity but there were stupid people voting on both sides...

That's why I like Scara's idea of a minimum IQ to be allowed to vote. On anything.
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Which is why I don't think such an important and complex decision should be the subject of a binary referendum. Also why I don't support a people's vote. It is the job of parliamentarians to make such decisions. Unfortunately so few have the cojones required to say it.
 
Robspur12 said:
I would not want a repeat of the same vote that put us in this mess in the first place. Even if the result of the 2016 vote was reversed it wouldnt be the end of the matter.

So another vote would need to be qualified to give voters the chance understand properly the choices that were on offer.

Personally I believe this should be decided by the parliamentarians rather than the people because voting is so often done on narrow personal agendas, rather than what is good for the country.
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I agree in the principle of MPs as elected experts who can dedicate themselves to understanding the issues and do the best for people. The problem is they don't have a mandate to do that anymore. The mandate is to leave the EU, so if they can't discern a way to achieve Brexit without damaging the nation, then they have to put it back to the people, epecially as there is impass. I can't see another option.
 
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richie_spur said:
Whilst I agree lots of people voted for different things and for different reasons, it wasn't just Leave supporters. I know plenty of Remain supporters who voted Remain as they like a European holiday each year and they thought they wouldn't be allowed. There's no accounting for stupidity but there were stupid people voting on both sides...

That's why I like Scara's idea of a minimum IQ to be allowed to vote. On anything.
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Some good posts. Agree with Rob. Have a lot of respect for Brexit voters who want to look out for their country, there is a lot of patriotic sentiment, pride in the UKs strength and it standing on its own two feet. All things most would agree with (that the EU doesn't actually stop this is another point).

People who like a european holiday have every reason to vote to remain tho. Whether its added time and hassel going through customs, needing paperwork and insurance to drive abroad, needing medical insurance in the future instead of getting free medical cover, more expensive holidays (15-20% more with the pound down), no laws that can protect continent-wide free phone roaming. Step outside the EU with your phone and you're racking up £10 a day charges. Yet its all free in the EU.

I don't buy that leaving the EU is some kind of catastrophe, but there are an awful lot of small good things it brings us. On the flip side what does Brexit give us?
 
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Can the Tories do this on their own?

She beat a party confidence vote in December, Conservative rules appear to say she’s safe for 12 months?
 
galeforce said:
Can the Tories do this on their own?

She beat a party confidence vote in December, Conservative rules appear to say she’s safe for 12 months?
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No, they'd need someone from Labour they'd want to join up with to call no confidence.

That rules out Comrade Corbyn, so both party leaders would have to go at once IMO.
 
galeforce said:
Can the Tories do this on their own?

She beat a party confidence vote in December, Conservative rules appear to say she’s safe for 12 months?
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I guess if almost all of the cabinet say to her that she has to go, then even May might consider it time to go.
 
galeforce said:
She’s been ignoring other opinions for months, I’d be surprised if she could be talked into resigning.
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As stubborn as she is, I'm starting to sense she's about had enough now. Had the EU extension terms been sharper I think she'd have seen it through, but I see the opening up of a potential long delay as the final straw for her.
 
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So, on Marr just now, Barclay (the latest Brexit secretary) has pretty much said that the government can/will ignore any indicative votes that go against government red lines. They are still just pushing the line of May's deal or nowt. But who knows with this shower, maybe this is just his opinion and not policy.
 
the dza said:
So, on Marr just now, Barclay (the latest Brexit secretary) has pretty much said that the government can/will ignore any indicative votes that go against government red lines. They are still just pushing the line of May's deal or nowt. But who knows with this shower, maybe this is just his opinion and not policy.
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That makes sense. If the government intented to listen to the indicative votes then they wouldn't be indicative, they'd be votes.
 
monkeybarry said:
Or tax breaks

Unfortunately voting rarely comes down to politics for the national interest for most of the electorate - it come down to personal benefit.
I'm definitely going to have to consider the philosophy on how I vote going forward.
I always thought I'd remain voting on principle, but now I'm late 30s I think I'll probably become more selfish.
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Yeah I was thinking that leaving would be the brave thing to do, but now I'm thinking of buying a place down in the French Alps I'm all for remaining :)

#selfinterest #allaboutme
 
SpurMeUp said:
I agree in the principle of MPs as elected experts who can dedicate themselves to understanding the issues and do the best for people. The problem is they don't have a mandate to do that anymore. The mandate is to leave the EU, so if they can't discern a way to achieve Brexit without damaging the nation, then they have to put it back to the people, epecially as there is impass. I can't see another option.
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Don't drill down into the reality of that if I were you.
 
the dza said:
So, on Marr just now, Barclay (the latest Brexit secretary) has pretty much said that the government can/will ignore any indicative votes that go against government red lines. They are still just pushing the line of May's deal or nowt. But who knows with this shower, maybe this is just his opinion and not policy.
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May and her allies are quetly smirking to themselves as they think the indicative votes will deliver MPs to her deal. That the votes will simply end up showing support for what May has agreed. At that point, they think, they'll pitch the vote. But yet again May and this government are missing the point. MPs don't want 'worse for the UK'. And that is the ultimate problem with her deal.
 
ricky2tricky4city said:
Don't drill down into the reality of that if I were you.
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Well they are often whipped, so follow a party line more often than not. I think there is one Tory who, as a matter of principle, reads every law and proposal before he votes (forget his name now). He is very much the exception. Most don't. Most run to the chamber, caste their vote as indicated by their party and leave. I was in a Labour MPs office in parliment having a meeting about 5 years ago. The bell went and the TV changed to a sign to vote, and he ran off, insisting that we wait in his office. When he came back I asked him what he'd voted on. He was only mildly embarrassed that he didn't know! He'd just followed the whip.

But that is the system that works. The general population don't have time or often care about economics, the details of political ins and outs etc etc and why should they? They vote in people to do that for them. And overall it works.
 
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