Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

[monkeybarry]

Were options requested? We had to request the extension and did so quite specifically as far as I'm aware. It seems to me that, rather than provide a direct response to the request that was made, they have introduced a variety of other options that potentially suit their agenda instead.

Or, rather than being intransigent that they give an unhelpful Yes/No, they offered up options in response to a request.

That really is a normal practice in life.
And adult.
And how a negotiation works.
It's not trolling. It's normal.

 

[monkeybarry]

As I understand it (and totally stand to be corrected) all available options are voted on, with the one that gets the least votes being dropped and then another round of voting taking place, rinse and repeat until only one option remains.

Would appear those options are (at least rumoured):
PM deal, revocation, second ref, deal + customs union, deal + customs + single market, FTA or no deal

Though I agree with you, seems much more constructive to focus on requirements before the solution!

Sounds like a good idea for a voting system....hmmmm

 

[DTA]

No deal will be a total clusterfu.ck but part of me wants it on the second ref ballot just to put this to bed properly.

How would we do:
Mays deal
No deal
Remain

Without accusations of splitting the leave vote?

 

[SpurMeUp]

No deal will be a total clusterfu.ck but part of me wants it on the second ref ballot just to put this to bed properly.

How would we do:
Mays deal
No deal
Remain

Without accusations of splitting the leave vote?

Simple two questions:

1) in/out
2) if out which option, May's Deal, No Deal (could even throw in customs union)

 

[P.D.]

Simple two questions:

1) in/out
2) if out which option, May's Deal, No Deal (could even throw in customs union)

Or May's deal v No Deal, option 1 has already been done - you're out of luck son

 

[DTA]

Simple two questions:

1) in/out
2) if out which option, May's Deal, No Deal (could even throw in customs union)

But then you risk no deal or Mays deal getting... say 30% of the votes and us leaving on that deal.

 

[DTA]

Simple two questions:

1) in/out
2) if out which option, May's Deal, No Deal (could even throw in customs union)

My thinking is a simple first second and third preference.

The option with the most third preferences gets ruled out straight away. Leaving the option with the most first preferences to win, if it is a tie on first preferences then second preferences come in to play.

If anyone says it is too complicated to put a number of one, two and three in To a ballot then they don't deserve the right to vote

 

[SpurMeUp]

Or May's deal v No Deal, option 1 has already been done - you're out of luck son

Option 1 has already been done...with Russian money, false posters/claims, and a lot less information. You live in a democracy 'grandpa', why stop people voting freely. What are you afraid of? People don't get one vote at a general election, and that's it forever. They can vote out crap parties who don't deliver. We need the same for brexit. What has it delivered? What will it ever deliver? The last 2 elections were less than 3 years apart I think, same as a new referedum would be.

At some point you have to face up to the reality that Brexit offers almost nothing to the UK, but takes away quite a bit of good stuff. If you think I am wrong, simply outline what we will get from Brexit. If we are free, people have to be able to vote on this reality. I know you don't want them to, but why deny peole freedom to chose?

 

[SpurMeUp]

But then you risk no deal or Mays deal getting... say 30% of the votes and us leaving on that deal.

Yes. But its the only fair thing. The issues are so complex and sadly the debate is not yet about what the UK gains and loses. It's all emotional gonad and there is very little national debate about what Brexit will deliver to the UK or what the UK would lose by leaving the EU. Those are the two core issues. That is the frustration for me, because if you isolate those 2 (complex) factors (what we gain and lose) then you can have a debate, then you can ask people to weigh up reality. Do that, and the risks are lower.

 

[DTA]

Yes. But its the only fair thing. The issues are so complex and sadly the debate is not yet about what the UK gains and loses. It's all emotional gonad* and there is very little national debate about what Brexit will deliver to the UK or what the UK would lose by leaving the EU. Those are the two core issues. That is the frustration for me, because if you isolate those 2 (complex) factors (what we gain and lose) then you can have a debate, then you can ask people to weigh up reality. Do that, and the risks are lower.

So what the problem with a first second and third preference vote?

If we have limits due to voting age then limits based on whether a person can put 1,2,3 in their preferred boxes is surely valid?

If they can't manage that, then counting their votes as null is surely valid. It's hardly a high or medium, or come to think of it even a small sized bar is it?

Most 3rd place votes gets excluded immediately. 1st placed votes wins unless a tie, which then brings in second based votes.

That way No deal can be on the ballet, and if that's what the country really wants... It can have it.

None of this unicorn brick. Or 'we were not given the choice' to vote for a 'proper no deal brexit'

One ref to sort it all out. 1,2,3

 

[SpurMeUp]

Put it to the People March tomorrow. Park Lane, nice Spurs connection, from noon. Then Spurs stadium opening on Sunday! I'm much more excited by Spurs, but feel I should go and show support tomorrow. I'm more taken with understanding the economics and politics of Brexit than caring too deeply about it all, but I have to practice what I preach, and back what I believe.

 

[SpurMeUp]

So what the problem with a first second and third preference vote?

If we have limits due to voting age then limits based on whether a person can put 1,2,3 in their preferred boxes is surely valid?

If they can't manage that, then counting their votes as null is surely valid. It's hardly a high or medium, or come to think of it even a small sized bar is it?

Most 3rd place votes gets excluded immediately. 1st placed votes wins unless a tie, which then brings in second based votes.

That way No deal can be on the ballet, and if that's what the country really wants... It can have it.

None of this unicorn brick. Or 'we were not given the choice' to vote for a 'proper no deal brexit'

One ref to sort it all out. 1,2,3

Fair enough. I'm up for it. Add a poll on here

 

[scaramanga]

But then you risk no deal or Mays deal getting... say 30% of the votes and us leaving on that deal.

That's democracy, often stupid electorate votes stupid - like for most of the 70s.

Until or unless we can set a minimum IQ for voting, or restrict it to those with experience of economics, running a business etc. that's the cost of a democratic system.

 

[DTA]

That's democracy, often stupid electorate votes stupid - like for most of the 70s.

Until or unless we can set a minimum IQ for voting, or restrict it to those with experience of economics, running a business etc. that's the cost of a democratic system.

A simple 1,2,3 preference vote should sort that out no?

 

[StephenH]

That's democracy, often stupid electorate votes stupid - like for most of the 70s.

Until or unless we can set a minimum IQ for voting, or restrict it to those with experience of economics, running a business etc. that's the cost of a democratic system.

There would be no need for polling stations. We make use of all those lovely red phone boxes.

‘A large’ percentage of the feckers on this sceptred isle have not got a scooby what they voted for with Brexit

 

[parklane1]

Or May's deal v No Deal, option 1 has already been done - you're out of luck son

He is in denial of a democratic vote, just look at how many posts he has made since.

 

[StephenH]

I'm with Nigel in this.

"The former Ukip leader shocked his colleagues on Thursday by suggesting another Brexit vote should be held, arguing it would lead to a more decisive victory for the leave campaign and silence remain supporters for a generation."

Don't know what all the fuss is about, Go Farage!

 

[SpurMeUp]

He is in denial of a democratic vote, just look at how many posts he has made since.

A measure of democracy is how many posts you make? To give people a vote with more information, 3 years on is ‘denying democracy’?

Your logic is crystal clear [emoji23]


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app

 

[StephenH]

To give people a vote with more information, 3 years on is ‘denying democracy’?

 

[Gilzeantoscore]

Jeremy Corbyn says he is seeking a "constructive alternative" to the PM's deal, in order to prevent a no-deal Brexit.

The Labour leader was speaking after meeting the EU's chief Brexit negotiator, Michel Barnier, for talks in Brussels.

It comes ahead of an EU summit where Theresa May will ask EU leaders to postpone Brexit for three months.

Mr Corbyn said he did not believe the PM's deal "is a way forward".

"We are therefore looking at alternatives, and building a majority in Parliament that can agree on a future constructive economic relationship with the European Union," he told reporters after the meeting.

Mr Corbyn was joined by shadow Brexit secretary Sir Keir Starmer for the talks, which also included European Commission Secretary-General Martin Selmayr.

He is also expected to meet seven European leaders at the two-day summit, which begins later.



What do people actually make of this? While Ive said many times he should be trying to make a difference - it doesnt sit well with me that he is off round europe trying to negotiate separately from the Prime Minister.

And this isnt a Corbyn bashing thing, before certain posters get their knives out, this is more - should the opposition actually be undermining the countries leader like that...? thing.

Oh yes it is, check out the last sentence? So he should just support everything the demented woman says?