Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

[Gilzeantoscore]

All within the rules of the house. Just as the house is doing what it can to frustrate her and exert their will (and could have done more).

Its our democracy. I dont see it as negotiable to just bin off all that and go rogue.

I never once said "We WILL negotiate a good deal". Not once. Im pretty sure I said as much as you in that I have no faith in our politicians (of any side) to be up to the task. What I always said, and maintain, was that we COULD negotiate a good deal. We have plenty of clout if we knew how to use it.

And heres the thing - as bad as the Tories are (and they are, Im not arguing) - what have Labour done against such poor opponents? Next to nothing. Which speaks volumes of them too. We have literally no talent in our main parties at all.

What can they do? They are in opposition. Put them in government and we will see what 'they can do.' They cannot be any worse than this Tory shower of brick, the party that brought on the referendum, lead leave and remain campaigns, came up with the Leave plan and fudged all of them up!

 

[Gilzeantoscore]

He does not lead this country. He does not hold power. He has no mandate to go and act like this, from what I can see.

He is acting completely independently. I do not think this is right.

Everything else is noise. Whether he finds a solution or not is beside the fact I think principally his actions are wrong.

But hang on... weren't you ranting on that Corbyn 'isnt doing anything.' As soon as he does you stick the boot in, ha,ha!

 

[Gutter Boy]

Corbyn should be setting out a left wing version of Brexit. One with nationalisation, an industrial strategy and social cohesion. At the moment their position is out-neoliberalising the neoliberals

 

[Parklaner81]

Plenty on the march who look like they need a good wash by the look of what I've just accidentally glimpsed on the bbc...

 

[scaramanga]

There would be no need for polling stations. We make use of all those lovely red phone boxes.

‘A large’ percentage of the feckers on this sceptred isle have not got a scooby what they voted for with Brexit

Brexit isn't unique. Most clams in this country have no understanding whatsoever of economics, yet we still let them vote in general elections. I'll bet half of them just vote for whichever fudger gives them 5p off a packet of off-brand cigarettes.

 

[StephenH]

Brexit isn't unique. Most clams in this country have no understanding whatsoever of economics, yet we still let them vote in general elections. I'll bet half of them just vote for whichever fudger gives them 5p off a packet of off-brand cigarettes.

Depends if they smoke?

 

[scaramanga]

Depends if they smoke?

Whatever bricky beer they drink then. Or clothes from Primark, or meat raffles/dog fights/ whatever those people do.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Plenty on the march who look like they need a good wash by the look of what I've just accidentally glimpsed on the bbc...

I can't imagine how the caterers sourced enough quinoa with the whole of Hampstead relocating to one space like that

 

[monkeybarry]

Whatever bricky beer they drink then. Or clothes from Primark, or meat raffles/dog fights/ whatever those people do.

Or tax breaks

Unfortunately voting rarely comes down to politics for the national interest for most of the electorate - it come down to personal benefit.
I'm definitely going to have to consider the philosophy on how I vote going forward.
I always thought I'd remain voting on principle, but now I'm late 30s I think I'll probably become more selfish.

 

[monkeybarry]

I can't imagine how the caterers sourced enough quinoa with the whole of Hampstead relocating to one space like that

It's central London - there is no shortage of Quinoa and Avo based lunches for £8

 

[StephenH]

It's central London - there is no shortage of Quinoa and Avo based lunches for £8

What’s Quinoa taste like?

 

[scaramanga]

I can't imagine how the caterers sourced enough quinoa with the whole of Hampstead relocating to one space like that

They and Islingtonclams can survive on smugness alone for up to three weeks.

 

[monkeybarry]

What’s Quinoa taste like?

Think of all those nice things like rice and pasta.

Then go through a phase where you will try "healthier alternatives" like lentils or cous cous.

Quinoa is the brick that is still left on the shelf.

 

[parklane1]

A measure of democracy is how many posts you make? To give people a vote with more information, 3 years on is ‘denying democracy’?

Your logic is crystal clear [emoji23]


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app

Only to some it seems.

 

[Robspur12]

Option 1 has already been done...with Russian money, false posters/claims, and a lot less information. You live in a democracy 'grandpa', why stop people voting freely. What are you afraid of? People don't get one vote at a general election, and that's it forever. They can vote out crap parties who don't deliver. We need the same for brexit. What has it delivered? What will it ever deliver? The last 2 elections were less than 3 years apart I think, same as a new referedum would be.

I would not want a repeat of the same vote that put us in this mess in the first place. Even if the result of the 2016 vote was reversed it wouldnt be the end of the matter.

So another vote would need to be qualified to give voters the chance understand properly the choices that were on offer.

Personally I believe this should be decided by the parliamentarians rather than the people because voting is so often done on narrow personal agendas, rather than what is good for the country.

 

[parklane1]

Brexit isn't unique. Most clams in this country have no understanding whatsoever of economics, yet we still let them vote in general elections. I'll bet half of them just vote for whichever fudger gives them 5p off a packet of off-brand cigarettes.

Sounds about right.

 

[Robspur12]

He is in denial of a democratic vote, just look at how many posts he has made since.

I respect the views of the true brexiteers even if I don't personally agree with them. But the problem with the 2016 vote was that I have since heard many people explain the reasons for voting out. So for example, my Aunt and Uncle voted out because they were worried that the hospital beds were being filled by Poles, friends from India and Mauritius voted out to reduce EU immigration in order to enable more immigrants to come over from their non EU countries. Still others voted out because they wanted to slow down house prices. Several tradesmen I knew were voting out because of the competition from European tradespeople was under cutting their prices.

Now I am not wanting to belittle them but their decisions were based on such narrow interests, is it right to base such an important national decision on those views? For a lifetime?

 

[parklane1]

I respect the views of the true brexiteers even if I don't personally agree with them. But the problem with the 2016 vote was that I have since heard many people explain the reasons for voting out. So for example, my Aunt and Uncle voted out because they were worried that the hospital beds were being filled by Poles, friends from India and Mauritius voted out to reduce EU immigration in order to enable more immigrants to come over from their non EU countries. Still others voted out because they wanted to slow down house prices. Several tradesmen I knew were voting out because of the competition from European tradespeople was under cutting their prices.

Now I am not wanting to belittle them but their decisions were based on such narrow interests, is it right to base such an important national decision on those views? For a lifetime?

Not saying i agree with you but IF what you are saying is true then maybe we should stop all general elections because most people do not know what they are voting for most of the time. Most of those who vote in the general elections do so on narrow/self interests.

 

[Lost Mango]

Not saying i agree with you but IF what you are saying is true then maybe we should stop all general elections because most people do not know what they are voting for most of the time. Most of those who vote in the general elections do so on narrow/self interests.

But we get to change those narrow views every 5 years (at most) and there are more options to vote for (different parties) at a GE that the narrow views are dispersed across more of a political spectrum.

The binary 'advisory' referendum (won with a non-significant majority) is now determining an outcome for at least 10 years if not the foreseeable future. The context makes a difference and lends itself to Robspurs position.

 

[richie_spur]

I respect the views of the true brexiteers even if I don't personally agree with them. But the problem with the 2016 vote was that I have since heard many people explain the reasons for voting out. So for example, my Aunt and Uncle voted out because they were worried that the hospital beds were being filled by Poles, friends from India and Mauritius voted out to reduce EU immigration in order to enable more immigrants to come over from their non EU countries. Still others voted out because they wanted to slow down house prices. Several tradesmen I knew were voting out because of the competition from European tradespeople was under cutting their prices.

Now I am not wanting to belittle them but their decisions were based on such narrow interests, is it right to base such an important national decision on those views? For a lifetime?

Whilst I agree lots of people voted for different things and for different reasons, it wasn't just Leave supporters. I know plenty of Remain supporters who voted Remain as they like a European holiday each year and they thought they wouldn't be allowed. There's no accounting for stupidity but there were stupid people voting on both sides...

That's why I like Scara's idea of a minimum IQ to be allowed to vote. On anything.