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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

LutonSpurs said:
Waffle as usual. You really do not have any substance behind your ridiculous positions do you? It is fun seeing you make yourself look this silly online. Keep going
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I've had this discussion here before and possibly with you.

I've posted the population per km² and contrasts that to places that are populated. If that area meant so much before Israel was there, why did so few people live there? If it meant souch before Israel, why was it an undeveloped brickhole?
 
scaramanga said:
I've had this discussion here before and possibly with you.

I've posted the population per km² and contrasts that to places that are populated. If that area meant so much before Israel was there, why did so few people live there? If it meant souch before Israel, why was it an undeveloped brickhole?
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I still don't see how this relates to you not believing in GHod and insisting on the right of return concept. Stop diverting away from your hypocrisy. And yes we have discussed it before and you were toothless in that debate too.

The best thing you can do is stop posting. There's more sense on this board when you say nothing
 
Grays_1890 said:
I imagine like most of the middle east it was still fairly Bedouin rather than sh1thole.
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In 1947 I'm not sure much of the world was anything other than a brick hole. It's such an odd hill to die on. "The Israeli ethnic cleansing of Palestinians was necessary because they managed to steal land during the period of tech development in the world"

We could take Scara to Qatar in 1947 and now and see what has happened without apartheid. He would find his point above is nonsense.
 
LutonSpurs said:
I still don't see how this relates to you not believing in GHod and insisting on the right of return concept. Stop diverting away from your hypocrisy. And yes we have discussed it before and you were toothless in that debate too.

The best thing you can do is stop posting. There's more sense on this board when you say nothing
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I don't think there's any solid religious basis for Jewish people being there. There's no solid religious basis for anything as it's all made up.

That doesn't mean that Jewish people didn't or shouldn't have the right to create a country there. Especially not if the area is almost empty and hasn't been developed at all.

My apologies if I'm not simplifying this enough so that it seems like nonsense. Simplifying things for others is not my strong point.
 
scaramanga said:
I don't think there's any solid religious basis for Jewish people being there. There's no solid religious basis for anything as it's all made up.

That doesn't mean that Jewish people didn't or shouldn't have the right to create a country there. Especially not if the area is almost empty and hasn't been developed at all.

My apologies if I'm not simplifying this enough so that it seems like nonsense. Simplifying things for others is not my strong point.
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You have never said this before. It isn't simplicity on your part. It's a lack of honesty.

So let's go with this.

On what basis does a group of people from one religion gain the right to take land for themselves?

What are the conditions?
 
scaramanga said:
I've had this discussion here before and possibly with you.

I've posted the population per km² and contrasts that to places that are populated. If that area meant so much before Israel was there, why did so few people live there? If it meant souch before Israel, why was it an undeveloped brickhole?
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I mean you live in Sussex right???

Why you live somewhere so underpopulated and undeveloped?
 
To say it is fair play to smash’s people out their home and expect them to be happy about you promising to take half. Then taking the full living room, kitchen and bathroom inch by inch day by day

Maybe that is a what they were happy with.

Maybe the previous tenant’s left because they didn’t give a brick and they didn’t have much to work with
 
scaramanga said:
I don't think there's any solid religious basis for Jewish people being there. There's no solid religious basis for anything as it's all made up.

That doesn't mean that Jewish people didn't or shouldn't have the right to create a country there. Especially not if the area is almost empty and hasn't been developed at all.

My apologies if I'm not simplifying this enough so that it seems like nonsense. Simplifying things for others is not my strong point.
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It isn't about simplifying things for others.

It is about having the empathy to see the other side.

Imagine you have a home you live in. Your family has lived there thousands of years. It is all you have ever known. fudge whether it was a country/ Palestine/ Ottoman/ British Empire or what. National borders don't define a persons home and sense of belonging. It doesn't change millenia of being in the same location - passing times and feeling affinity to the community you have and homes you have grown up in.

You suddenly have guests arriving back who have been gone 2,000 years. You are forcibly evicted from your own homes by the occupying power of the day. You have no choice in the matter. You will never see home again that is that.

Having been forced out your home your pretty tinkled off to say the least. You are told they will not push any further so long as you stick to this 50% zone.

You settle in the East (of the West Bank by the new border) and slowly but surely more and more is goin away. Your family lose their home again.

It is never enough and slowly you are put down to the last 20%. It isn't even where your great grandparents are from - because that was long sinc taken. But as close as you can get.

The people who you were reassured would never step across the 50% boudary now want to sell it to an orange man to turn into crappy badly decorated resorts and casions. Just because he can.

Forget for a second the ins and outs of the formation of Israel.

What is done is done. We can never go back on that. We all need to be realisitic and accept Israel is here to stay.

But can you really not understand why it is also sensible to understand why a Palestian is now tinkled?
 
That is what you are missing. Just an akcnowlegdment that you would be tinkled.

With that akcnowlegdment nothing can ever be worked upon.
 
scaramanga said:
Hamas is already rebuilding, it was a huge mistake to stop before they were completely destroyed. Unfortunately, most of the West doesn't have the stomach for what needs to be done.

I do think Israel should be a part of the rebuild but they can't be all the time Hamas are around. I suggest allowing the Palestinians one last chance to vote for a proper government, with Israel putting together a party to stand against Hamas. If they vote for Hamas, then the only hope is Trump's plan. If they vote for the other party, then rebuilding can start.
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So your concept of 'democracy' is basically Hobson's choice - vote for the oppressor or face eviction?

Wow.

And you can't destroy an ideological system with bombs. It isn't about having the stomach for it, bombing and shooting were never going to completely destroy Hamas. Plenty of wiser people than you or I were clear that all that Israel would achieve is putting a lid on it for a short while but in the medium and long-term radicalise a whole new cohort in the next generations.

Question - in your mind what is the legal status of Gaza and the West Bank? Who does it belong to?
 
Craig_J said:
In any other level of occupation (such as social work, care work, etc..) there’s certain standards that have to be maintained

If someone was offered a role suspected of what they are. If there was an element of doubt.. they would not be allowed to police

Obviously false allegations happen… but they are so, so rare.

If any officer has has repeated allegations made I want them gone.
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You can't sack someone based on allegations that have been investigated and ended up being dismissed. That's a basic legal fact. Our legal system doesn't operate on "there's an element of doubt, therefore your f***ed" it operates on "proven beyond reasonable doubt" at a criminal level" and "on the balance of probabilities" at a civil level. Civil law would be applied in an employment but you still cannot dismiss someone without any evidence of wrong doing and as the court found, the Met police could offer no evidence of any wrong doing on the part of this officer, all they had was two completely unsubstantiated allegations that had been investigated and no corroborating evidence found. It is lunacy from a legal perspective to sack someone in those circumstances and they've paid the price in court....
 
LutonSpurs said:
You have never said this before. It isn't simplicity on your part. It's a lack of honesty.

So let's go with this.

On what basis does a group of people from one religion gain the right to take land for themselves?

What are the conditions?
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None whatsoever.

But an ethnic group who have been hounded out of Europe deserve a place to live.

If they'd wanted to live in Alaska or North Wales, or any other undeveloped land then I'd have supported that. They wanted to live where they were originally forced from and that's fine by me.
 
Craig_J said:
It isn't about simplifying things for others.

It is about having the empathy to see the other side.

Imagine you have a home you live in. Your family has lived there thousands of years. It is all you have ever known. fudge whether it was a country/ Palestine/ Ottoman/ British Empire or what. National borders don't define a persons home and sense of belonging. It doesn't change millenia of being in the same location - passing times and feeling affinity to the community you have and homes you have grown up in.

You suddenly have guests arriving back who have been gone 2,000 years. You are forcibly evicted from your own homes by the occupying power of the day. You have no choice in the matter. You will never see home again that is that.

Having been forced out your home your pretty tinkled off to say the least. You are told they will not push any further so long as you stick to this 50% zone.

You settle in the East (of the West Bank by the new border) and slowly but surely more and more is goin away. Your family lose their home again.

It is never enough and slowly you are put down to the last 20%. It isn't even where your great grandparents are from - because that was long sinc taken. But as close as you can get.

The people who you were reassured would never step across the 50% boudary now want to sell it to an orange man to turn into crappy badly decorated resorts and casions. Just because he can.

Forget for a second the ins and outs of the formation of Israel.

What is done is done. We can never go back on that. We all need to be realisitic and accept Israel is here to stay.

But can you really not understand why it is also sensible to understand why a Palestian is now tinkled?
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Now imagine it's not your home and it's somewhere you sometimes travel through - like J13 on the M25.

Not quite the same, is it?
 
Lost Mango said:
So your concept of 'democracy' is basically Hobson's choice - vote for the oppressor or face eviction?

Wow.

And you can't destroy an ideological system with bombs. It isn't about having the stomach for it, bombing and shooting were never going to completely destroy Hamas. Plenty of wiser people than you or I were clear that all that Israel would achieve is putting a lid on it for a short while but in the medium and long-term radicalise a whole new cohort in the next generations.

Question - in your mind what is the legal status of Gaza and the West Bank? Who does it belong to?
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It doesn't belong to anyone, there isn't a country there.

It's just an area claimed as a state by a terrorist group.
 
scaramanga said:
None whatsoever.

But an ethnic group who have been hounded out of Europe deserve a place to live.

If they'd wanted to live in Alaska or North Wales, or any other undeveloped land then I'd have supported that. They wanted to live where they were originally forced from and that's fine by me.
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Why only Europe?
 
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