Pedro Porro

[monkeybarry]

To be fair, it's gotten easier to defend, and harder for *defenders* - which may have something to do with it.

It's easier to defend, the basic job of a defender, because of VAR and semi-automated offsides making it pretty easy to catch attackers offside if you have your lines right.

It's simultaneously harder to be a defender today, because just being a good defender is no longer enough. A brilliant defender who is terrible with the ball at his feet will get eaten alive in the modern game as teams target them as vulnerabilities and press them high and hard. Top defenders today have to be playmakers in addition to defending, adept on and off the ball and able to pass and dribble under intense pressure.

Not saying that any of the giants you listed were *bad* on the ball, necessarily - but I think it's pretty safe to say that the *average* top-level defender probably has better ball playing skills than almost every defender from even 20-25 years ago, to say nothing of fitness levels.

Great post.

And oddly enough the players mentioned (Maldini, Cannavaro, Nesta, Desailly, Thuram etc) all stand out because as well as being top defenders they are also exceptional on the ball. But they were very much the exception, not the rule.

Same with full backs - trail blazers like Cafu, Roberto Carlos and Lizarazu gave you a defender and attacker all in one. That was a desirable strength, now it's a weakness not to have it and isn't really present at the top level.

 

[monkeybarry]

On footballing ability I would say peak Campbell was the better player.

And ability as a human being however.....

 

[Bishop]

Saw a stat that Haaland, the big clumsy looking dog, had a top speed of 36 km/h vs Arsenal. I don't know how they measure that, peak or over some distance, but it was still during a game of football with football boots on a grass pitch. Usain Bolt had a peak top speed of 44 km/h (with 37.5 km/h over 100m at 9.58) probably without doing much more running that day other than warm-up. I remember word being that Roberto Carlos ran 100m at 10.4, with Geir Moen, Norway's fastest sprinter at the time ran at 10.08 which was an all time Norwegian record until it was beaten with 1/100th.

Not really comparable though as football players don't start from dead still and in blocks. They are usually already moving and their bodies are fully warmed up from already being involved in a game of football.

Get Haaland to start from a sprinters block, cold against professional sprinters and his times whilst still fast won't appear so fast.

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[DaveT316]

According to reports in Portugal, Emirates Marketing Project DID try to steal him on Deadline Day, but he stayed true to his word to us.

Good lad. Here’s to sticking in a last minute winner on Sunday!

 

[Raziel]

Not really comparable though as football players don't start from dead still and in blocks. They are usually already moving and their bodies are fully warmed up from already being involved in a game of football.

Get Haaland to start from a sprinters block, cold against professional sprinters and his times whilst still fast won't appear so fast.

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There was a test a few years back with Ronaldo against a European Championship level sprinter

Basically the test was strait line 100M time, vs. a 100M sprint in a zig zag pattern (two or three direction changes), sprinter one the strait line time (not by much) got smoked badly in zig zag

 

[Bishop]

There was a test a few years back with Ronaldo against a European Championship level sprinter

Basically the test was straight line 100M time, vs. a 100M sprint in a zig zag pattern (two or three direction changes), sprinter one the strait line time (not by much) got smoked badly in zig zag

I remember seeing that and it doesn't surprise me. Sprinters are very much trained for sheer explosiveness whereas obviously football requires nimbleness and changes of direction.

Its also why sometimes fans criticise players for not being as fast with the ball as they are without it, but obviously running with a ball in control at your feet is a whole other level compared to just free running. Partly why Messi do so awe inspiring at his best, the quick changes of direction while being in complete control was just a ridiculous thing to witness.

Ps. The European Championship sprinter was quite slow. He probably wouldn't make a World or Olympic Semi final.

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[Yiddo]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1621491100576890882

 

[spurspinter1]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1621491100576890882

A player sold for 7 million a year or so ago, we've signed for a brickload more, however we choose to look at it!

 

[papaspur]

A player sold for 7 million a year or so ago, we've signed for a brickload more, however we choose to look at it!

That is the name of the game. Enzo Fernandez was sold for 44 million, and 6 months later went for 120 million. Other clubs out there are capable of speculating on young players and bringing in the right ones. We get Ndombele and it's like a curse for five years. Too many Ndombeles and not enough Modric's or Bales is bad for business.

 

[makkag]

Salah and de brune also say hello

 

[Bishop]

Salah and de brune also say hello

Salah was bought for 11m and sold for 15m. De bruyne for 7m and sold for 22m. So whilst Chelsea didn't get the best out of them (mainly due to the sheer number of talented young players they had at the time) they still made a profit from the purchase of said players. In that model you keep the players you believe in and you sell the ones who you don't. They still profit on player trading and reinvested that into the next batch.

 

[makkag]

Fair point financially . Mine is players sold on cheap, maligned and not fancied can go on to become key individuals.

Just because we’ve paid what we have paid doesn’t mean we have overpaid.. let’s see what he brings to the team first before griping ?

 

[Yiddo]

That is the name of the game. Enzo Fernandez was sold for 44 million, and 6 months later went for 120 million. Other clubs out there are capable of speculating on young players and bringing in the right ones. We get Ndombele and it's like a curse for five years. Too many Ndombeles and not enough Modric's or Bales is bad for business.

£44m? Its was £12m then the sell on value.

 

[Bishop]

Fair point financially . Mine is players sold on cheap, maligned and not fancied can go on to become key individuals.

Just because we’ve paid what we have paid doesn’t mean we have overpaid.. let’s see what he brings to the team first before griping ?

Not sure if aimed at me? I'm not griping about what we've paid for Porro. Just involving myself in the thought exercise.

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[braineclipse]

If Porro really gets going and is a good fit I think he may do more than sort out quite a lot of our RWB issues.

Part of our problem has been cover for Kulusevski. Part of that has been that Kulusevski's specific skill set hasn't been present in the rest of the squad (Gil being the closest I would say). But also that his specific qualities were necessary to get the best out of Doherty and Emerson. A really good, versatile, multifaceted attacking RWB could make us less reliant on Kulusevski.

A lot easier for Richarlison or even Moura to be effective there with Porro as the RWB I think. Can take more of the creative, ball progression and end product responsibility. Making a Richarlison as the right sided attacker more functional perhaps.

I also wonder if it could make a 3-5-2 more functional. Part of why I haven't seen that as quite the obvious solution many on here have argued is that it's inherently more narrow at the front. Leaving the touchline work and width more to the RWB. Also leaves the RWB more isolated more of the time.

That requires a wing back that can do more on their own (dribbling, crossing) more in the widest areas. Which is a recipe for making Emerson and Doherty look average at the very best. Porro is a completely different player, much more like what we would need to make a 3-5-2 work imo.

Just to be clear, I also think he can be really good in a 3-4-3 and playing with Kulusevski ahead of him.

 

[metalgear]

If Porro really gets going and is a good fit I think he may do more than sort out quite a lot of our RWB issues.

Part of our problem has been cover for Kulusevski. Part of that has been that Kulusevski's specific skill set hasn't been present in the rest of the squad (Gil being the closest I would say). But also that his specific qualities were necessary to get the best out of Doherty and Emerson. A really good, versatile, multifaceted attacking RWB could make us less reliant on Kulusevski.

A lot easier for Richarlison or even Moura to be effective there with Porro as the RWB I think. Can take more of the creative, ball progression and end product responsibility. Making a Richarlison as the right sided attacker more functional perhaps.

I also wonder if it could make a 3-5-2 more functional. Part of why I haven't seen that as quite the obvious solution many on here have argued is that it's inherently more narrow at the front. Leaving the touchline work and width more to the RWB. Also leaves the RWB more isolated more of the time.

That requires a wing back that can do more on their own (dribbling, crossing) more in the widest areas. Which is a recipe for making Emerson and Doherty look average at the very best. Porro is a completely different player, much more like what we would need to make a 3-5-2 work imo.

Just to be clear, I also think he can be really good in a 3-4-3 and playing with Kulusevski ahead of him.

2 up front works well for kane and son.

3 up front has been a mixed bag for me, but conte has his man perisic now so i would be surprised to see conte leave him out and revet to 2 up front

 

[papaspur]

£44m? Its was £12m then the sell on value.

I got the value from transfermarkt but 12m is way more reasonable. That makes the point I was making even stronger. Our record on youth prospects is really poor, but it seems like things are getting a little better under Paratici.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I got the value from transfermarkt but 12m is way more reasonable. That makes the point I was making even stronger. Our record on youth prospects is really poor, but it seems like things are getting a little better under Paratici.

The record of most prem teams on youth prospect is poor, not just us

unless your Brighton for example who have a model and culture designed for it most sides want ready made players in this league

the money is key

£14m for them was big money and he has now gone down as a record transfer for that country cost wise at 44m Euros

it’s all relative

 

[papaspur]

The record of most prem teams on youth prospect is poor, not just us

unless your Brighton for example who have a model and culture designed for it most sides want ready made players in this league

the money is key

£14m for them was big money and he has now gone down as a record transfer for that country cost wise at 44m Euros

it’s all relative

Most PL clubs don't get European football, but that doesn't mean we should settle. I get that it's a risk but as you said, some clubs can do better than others. It's not just a matter of rolling the dice as there is some methodology in scouting the right players. We can't afford to buy expensive (80m+) players.
I'm happy with the deal to do Porro. There is definitely a premium we are paying but he's a good player, and theoretically if he keeps improving and does well here, he'd be worth at least 60-80m. That seems to be about our limit.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Most PL clubs don't get European football, but that doesn't mean we should settle. I get that it's a risk but as you said, some clubs can do better than others. It's not just a matter of rolling the dice as there is some methodology in scouting the right players. We can't afford to buy expensive (80m+) players.
I'm happy with the deal to do Porro. There is definitely a premium we are paying but he's a good player, and theoretically if he keeps improving and does well here, he'd be worth at least 60-80m. That seems to be about our limit.

Football always has had a hierarchy
Making the step up a level is massive and very very hard to get right
Teams have spells where they are lunching above but it rarely lasts
I don’t know how old you are or how long you have followed spurs but sinuous remember Charlton I’m the premier league or league or Norwich when they were good?