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OMT. TOTTENHAM HOTSPUR Vs Wolverhampton Wanderers

Man of the match


  • Total voters
    39
  • Poll closed .
How did united exploit it or wolves?

both seemed to have a plan to take it wide to either rashford or traore. That was their threat 90% of the time

We were overrun in midfield in both those games (and Bayern). They pressed us hard and we couldn't get out as we had no passer in midfield (in fact I would say we were also under resourced in midfield). We had zero control in those games and looked like we were under pressure the whole game. With Sissoko being dragged out to cover for Aurier, this leaves the remaining midfielder totally exposed.
 
Wolves captain Conor Coady has given his thoughts on Tottenham’s approach to stopping Adama Traore in Sunday’s match at Molineux.

Traore netted Wolves’ goal but was unable to prevent his side going down 2-1 and Coady has admitted it was frustrating to watch the winger being treated like that.

He said on Sky Sports, via the Daily Mail: “Tottenham were clever in terms of how different players were fouling him but it’s hard from our point of view to keep seeing that. That’s what’s disappointing. It was obviously something they said and then did. It’s hard to take because [it’s] every time he beats his man. We speak to referees every game.

“They say they can’t do much about it because they are booking the players and they are not red card offences. It’s so frustrating for us, when he gets past players then bought down. Adama is phenomenal. Teams are ganging up on him; one player, then another player. He is unstoppable at times and you have seen that against world-class players.”


After their treatment of our players, Id say this is a bit rich, pot... kettle...

I love this so much, we were such a bunch of pussies before, I want teams to hate us as much as they fear us and know we will beat them however they want to play.

fudge em.
 
Midfield is complicated, and I dont think just buying someone is the answer to it.

Dier, Winks, NDombele, Skipp, Lo Celso(?), Sissoko, Eriksen, Wanyama - theres already a good number of players there to play.

The answer may well be patience, getting NDombele/Lo Celso/Skipp etc up to speed, rather than purchase - and congesting an already well stocked part of the team.

Put it this way, we can sell Eriksen and Wanyama in Jan and theres no need to replace them.

RB is just weak, and really needs addressing, and getting in a first choice would be transformative for the team (and Joses options) IMHO.

Id happily replace Rose, though I wonder whether Sessegnon will be developed there sooner rather than later (he isnt ousting Son anytime soon).

If Alderweireld or Vertonghen go, they need replacing.

To me its much more about working with what we have than any real essential need to buy (aside from RB).

I think an influx of 4 or 5 as you suggest, unless we sell as many, will leave the squad in pretty dodgy shape.

I think that we have some good players in midfield, I'm just not sure that many are fitted to the deep lying playmaker and disruptor roles that Mourinho seems to want in central midfield. Winks and Dier fit this well but beyond this you are making compromises.
 
I think that we have some good players in midfield, I'm just not sure that many are fitted to the deep lying playmaker and disruptor roles that Mourinho seems to want in central midfield. Winks and Dier fit this well but beyond this you are making compromises.
We'll see when Ndombele is fully up to speed. We've invested a lot in him, even though he was signed under Pochettino getting him firing in our team should be a priority over some time. He obviously has a lot of quality to bring.

It's about balance and options though, right now we find ourselves short on both. Players returning from injuries and gaining fitness will help on the second of those, but we'll still be short on DM options unless Wamyama finds a miracle cure or Skipp steps up.

We're in a situation where both of the central midfielders from Wolves would walk into our team, as disrespectful as that sounds that's not acceptable for us long term.
 
We'll see when Ndombele is fully up to speed. We've invested a lot in him, even though he was signed under Pochettino getting him firing in our team should be a priority over some time. He obviously has a lot of quality to bring.

It's about balance and options though, right now we find ourselves short on both. Players returning from injuries and gaining fitness will help on the second of those, but we'll still be short on DM options unless Wamyama finds a miracle cure or Skipp steps up.

We're in a situation where both of the central midfielders from Wolves would walk into our team, as disrespectful as that sounds that's not acceptable for us long term.

I agree that Ndombele has a lot of quality, I'm just not sure that he is particularly well suited to sitting deep and distributing. I wonder whether Mourinho might try him in Moura's position, it gives him licence to get forward and his incisive passing could be really dangerous from there.
 
We were overrun in midfield in both those games (and Bayern). They pressed us hard and we couldn't get out as we had no passer in midfield (in fact I would say we were also under resourced in midfield). We had zero control in those games and looked like we were under pressure the whole game. With Sissoko being dragged out to cover for Aurier, this leaves the remaining midfielder totally exposed.
And what happened?
We beat wolves by taking our chances
We lost to United due to a keeper mistake and an error from Sissoko
 
He said what he was looking for in midfield when explaining why he dropped Sissoko in his first game. It could change of course.

"What made me [start Winks and Dier] was the positional play of the four attacking players. I needed one midfielder that was more positional and I needed one midfield that was more a passer of the ball.

“Of course, when I see Moussa, he is a very good player, but he is very different than my needs. I need that stability from Dier and I need the kid to move the ball faster, also positionally and also to find the attacking players in the positions we want them to find the ball.”
 
How do we even know what Jose wants?

I don’t think Jose would have us set much different when he has the squad he wants

I think that we have some good players in midfield, I'm just not sure that many are fitted to the deep lying playmaker and disruptor roles that Mourinho seems to want in central midfield. Winks and Dier fit this well but beyond this you are making compromises.

I could see Jose binning off all our midfielders minus Dier/Winks/Dombele (I included Alli as a forward) to get players more suited to the system he wants.
 
He also gave us a clue when talking about Sissoko after the United game.

"I don’t think he’s a midfield player in a core position, number six or a double six. I think the best position for Moussa is when the team plays with a positional midfielder and he has freedom to go, or from the right like he did against Bournemouth."
 
I think that we have some good players in midfield, I'm just not sure that many are fitted to the deep lying playmaker and disruptor roles that Mourinho seems to want in central midfield. Winks and Dier fit this well but beyond this you are making compromises.

A long post incoming, but I think it would be instructive to think about what Mourinho's preferred deep midfield pairings have actually been in his best sides, historically.

At Chelsea in 04/05, 05/06 and 06/07, he hadn't developed a 4-2-3-1 yet - his focus was on his 4-3-3, which usually destroyed opponents that played a flat 4-4-2 (i.e, everyone in the Premier League, with precious few exceptions). But, in general, the two midfielders tasked with 'sitting' and 'shuttling' were Makelele and (in general) Essien or Ballack. The key to remember here, and going forward, is that neither of those two were 'pure' disruptors or destroyers - they had to be able to play as well, and did. Indeed, Makelele spoke often about how he felt the 'water carrier' role he defined was actually inaccurate when it came to him, because Mourinho often relied on him to break the lines with his passing ability.

At Inter, with a classic 4-2-3-1, he played Motta and Cambiasso - they fit your description of 'disruptor' and 'deep-lying playmaker' to a tee (as do the pairing that would follow at Madrid), but again, both could play very well, and either could break the lines with ease, even if one was more physical and the other, more positional. Both moved up into attack at times, while the other sat.

At Madrid, he reached the pinnacle of this organizational set-up at the base of midfield, with Khedira and Alonso - Khedira was the more 'physical' player, but he would actually maraud upfield all the way to the opponent's six-yard box to press high up, while Alonso would sit deep and ping the ball around.

Finally, at Chelsea in 14/15, Matic and Fabregas/Ramires was a bit new compared to all of the others - In Matic, they had a deep sitter who was almost exclusively devoted to screening the defence, and in Fabregas, a wispy, weak playmaker who was almost exclusively dedicated to playing the ball forward.

I think the point here is, a 'pure' disruptor and a 'pure' playmaker have been very ,very new additions to Mourinho's general approach. At his peak, he didn't want 'pure' players - he wanted multifunctional 'do it all' players. With strengths, yes - Xabi passed, Khedira pressed. But their positional discipline varied wildly, they could both pass, dribble, tackle and press, and the only consistency seems to be that one player was more 'energetic', and the other more 'sedate'.

Here, I don't think Mourinho actually would want a midfield of Dier and Winks. Dier is almost exclusively mono-functional - he screens the defense. He can't carry the ball, can't turn, can't run, can't even press up the field all the effectively because of his limited mobility post-injuries. Winks, while he can pass well, is defensively unsound - we look weaker with him in the team, because he can't screen the defense. And he isn't particularly offensively gifted either - he excels at recycling possession, but that's a limited skillset.

Dier and Winks are sort of discount versions of Matic and Fabregas. But I don't actually think Mourinho wants those players.
 
Part 2 - who does he want?

Ndombele. I think Ndombele is an Alonso, or an Essien - a deep lying playmaker who can carry the ball, press, tackle, and screen - a multifunctional 'perfect' player. I think, long-term, *if* Ndombele's fitness and mentality get up to speed (and that's an if), he will have one of the two midfield positions locked down.

The other position is more open. I suspect he will want a similarly multifunctional player, albeit with a bit of defensive steel that Ndombele may not have - not in terms of tackling and pressing (which Ndombele can do), but in terms of organizing the back line and being a little bit more predisposed to sit instead of go when the team has the ball.

That isn't Dier. That, I suspect, is a new player - because we have no players who fit that role at the moment. Lo Celso is basically an Ndombele clone, Sissoko is the furthest thing from positionally disciplined, and Dier and Winks, we've already covered.

The links to Boubakary Soumare fit the bill - he's enormous (1.9m), technically gifted, and used to sitting at the base of midfield. But he's really young, and inexperienced, and makes mistakes, and gets forward too much sometimes - I'm not sure Mourinho will want a player who will need time to fit into his style.

Given that, I suspect we'll be looking at a certain subset of players either now or in the summer - Allan (from Napoli), Partey (from Atletico), and so on. It's really hard to find someone who fits that bill, but I think that will be the player that completes Mourinho's vision for what he wants our midfield to look like.
 
Part 2 - who does he want?

Ndombele. I think Ndombele is an Alonso, or an Essien - a deep lying playmaker who can carry the ball, press, tackle, and screen - a multifunctional 'perfect' player. I think, long-term, *if* Ndombele's fitness and meteorology get up to speed (and that's an if), he will have one of the two midfield positions locked down.

The other position is more open. I suspect he will want a similarly multifunctional player, albeit with a bit of defensive steel that Ndombele may not have - not in terms of tackling and pressing (which Ndombele can do), but in terms of organizing the back line and being a little bit more predisposed to sit instead of go when the team has the ball.

That isn't Dier. That, I suspect, is a new player - because we have no players who fit that role at the moment. Lo Celso is basically an Ndombele clone, Sissoko is the furthest thing from positionally disciplined, and Dier and Winks, we've already covered.

The links to Boubakary Soumare fit the bill - he's enormous (1.9m), technically gifted, and used to sitting at the base of midfield. But he's really young, and inexperienced, and makes mistakes, and gets forward too much sometimes - I'm not sure Mourinho will want a player who will need time to fit into his style.

Given that, I suspect we'll be looking at a certain subset of players either now or in the summer - Allan (from Napoli), Partey (from Atletico), and so on. It's really hard to find someone who fits that bill, but I think that will be the player that completes Mourinho's vision for what he wants our midfield to look like.

Lo Celso had a season at the base of midfield for PSG but obviously we didn't sign him with that in mind and he doesn't look like a player who features in Mourinho's plans.
 
Lo Celso had a season at the base of midfield for PSG but obviously we didn't sign him with that in mind and he doesn't look like a player who features in Mourinho's plans.

I'm really not sure what's going on with him, but I'm dismayed he's being misused (or left unused) like this.

The thing is, if Ndombele's a swiss army knife of a central midfielder, Lo Celso is a swiss army knife of a *footballer*. He can play absolutely anywhere and look good doing it - defensive midfield at PSG, winger at PSG, central midfield at Betis, attacking midfield at Betis, inside forward at Betis, striker at Betis.

He has versatility Ndombele does not, while having nearly all of Ndombele's press resistance and ability to press on his own.

I'm mystified as to why we're sidelining him like this - it was a coup when we landed him, and I fear he's going to go somewhere else and make us look supremely foolish for doing this.

I get that he was bought to slot into Eriksen's role in the wonky 4-2-3-1 (where he'd be the playmaker on the right, to complement Dele in the middle and Son on the left), but he's adaptable enough to have been worth at least the occasional start over Winks, or even Lucas.
 
I'm really not sure what's going on with him, but I'm dismayed he's being misused (or left unused) like this.

The thing is, if Ndombele's a swiss army knife of a central midfielder, Lo Celso is a swiss army knife of a *footballer*. He can play absolutely anywhere and look good doing it - defensive midfield at PSG, winger at PSG, central midfield at Betis, attacking midfield at Betis, inside forward at Betis, striker at Betis.

He has versatility Ndombele does not, while having nearly all of Ndombele's press resistance and ability to press on his own.

I'm mystified as to why we're sidelining him like this - it was a coup when we landed him, and I fear he's going to go somewhere else and make us look supremely foolish for doing this.

I get that he was bought to slot into Eriksen's role in the wonky 4-2-3-1 (where he'd be the playmaker on the right, to complement Dele in the middle and Son on the left), but he's adaptable enough to have been worth at least the occasional start over Winks, or even Lucas.

He was likely bought for a very different role under Poch than where Jose is probably prepared to use him. I think Jose mainly sees a space for him as a RWF cutting it to shoot but he probably doesn't have the direct goal threat and pace that Moura does or at least he hasn't shown that as yet. I can't see Jose ever really starting him in CM as I don't believe Jose would have signed him such a position imo. Lo Celso is going to have to really put on a show in training and any cameos he gets to start to convince Jose that he's worthy of a start.

There is of course the chance that Jose is really just keeping it simple for now and as the confidence of the players continues to grow Lo Celso may be given more chances to demonstrate what he can do. It is a shame as he had started to show reasonable form just before Poch was sacked.

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For those who think the team with the ball and the most shots are “dominating”

look at the stats of the Villa vs Pool game
Dominating isn't the same as finishing, but it does usually follow that you get better chances and more of them.

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For those who think the team with the ball and the most shots are “dominating”

look at the stats of the Villa vs Pool game

As been mentioned before stats do not always show the full story.( get ready for the stats police saying how wrong i am).
 
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