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***OMT TOTTENHAM HOTSPUR vs Roma***

Wut? Roma are basically Everton, maybe a poor cousin. I'd fancy Leeds to get a draw. wtf is this excuse Bergvall is only 18 crap....

We were dogbrick, like so many times this season
 
Hmmn, that second half was a tough tough watch. Crowd was pretty flat the whole game, the team just wasn't great, Roma aren't mugs and Dybala was excellent.
My main take out is that we need to invest in top players, not "hopefulls" like Bergvall. We cannot compete in Europe when there are no forwards or game changers on the bench.
We also need to invest in players who aren’t made of fragile glass so that we have forwards and game changers in the bench, and not academy kids.
 
I hate to bang on about the Vicario injury -especially as Forster made two great saves tonight (the one at the near-death deserved to be the match-winner, outstanding) but there is little doubt in my mind that we are not as comfortable with him in goal. Probably natural given he is hardly there, and perhaps after a few games it will be sorted, but it does give us a big issue to navigate before January. Those games? That's an absurd run of fixtures really...

I have to say, I have been largely happy with the CBs in reserve. For me, it just feels so so important to try and get Richy fit and utiize Spence as much as possible. I also think in January we need to bite the bullet and loan Bergvall for his own development; such potential but not quite ready to do any real job for us in the regular sense. It will likely mean we need to push hard for that Gomes deal in Jan. Again, no blame laid at Bregy's feet at all tonight, but him and Maddison together don't work well, and in a game where you're looking to just play it out, he simply is not the right guy.

Have to give Archie Gray another shout out. Not spectacular but considering it is probably the least of his favourite positions, and that he was doing a job for the team tonight, I thought he did really well with Ben shepherding him through.
It's the cumulative effects of players injured, play in need of rotation and tired legs from those who weren't rotated imo. I agree that Vicario missing is an important factor, but even "just" Richarlison and Odobert/Moore for fresh legs in the second half probably makes a difference in this game.

Agree that Gray did well.

Thought Bergvall did well too when he came on, but for his development 10 minute cameos won't do much. If that will be the case in the second half of the season I agree that a loan could be useful.
Think a few people are needlessly getting their undies in a twist.
We had one of our regular badck five out there.
That roma team is laced with quality, have a new manager and have a point to prove.
We could have won that game.
We are three points off the top, the next three rounds quite a few above us are playing each other so some will drop points.
Cheer up people.
Agreed. We struggled a bit, but Roma also looked quite good.

Both teams struggled defensively while offering real threats in attack.

Obviously disappointing to drop points at the end like that, and disappointing to give up so many chances. But we should all know by now that getting to consistency will take some time and that this wasn't going to be an easy game.
 
I felt Dragusin and Davies did well overall.
But I think it was a blundering Dragusin that knocked someone over out wide for the freekick for their 1st goal?
No need, no danger at all, just smashed him over. Reminded me of Aurier, smashing people for no reason.
Same as Bentancur late on, no danger, out by the touchline, the fella has only just come on, goes steaming in for a red card ankle breaker challenge.
Maybe he wants Christmas off already?
Definitely think the centre backs did well. Dragusin could have avoided that free kick, but it happens.

Davies used the ball really well too. Dragusin was fine on the ball, but not expansive.

Think we struggled a bit with defending well as a team. Was surprised that Son started and stayed on that long. Not sure if Werner is 100%, but we needed his energy out there with several players coming straight from internationals to the City game and then to this one.

Bentacur needs to be a bit more careful about the hardest tackles. Fine to b heve that on your game, but him picking up needless yellow cards is a detriment to his game.
 
It is impressive how consistently we manage to leave opponents unmarked on the far post, even when we had several defenders there literally 5 seconds earlier!

View attachment 18133View attachment 18134
I think that's the kind of thing that happens to most teams. Corner is half cleared to the other side, everyone turns to see where the ball is (as they have to do) and moves somewhat in that direction, leaving people free at the back post.

It's the kind of situation where direct man marking goes somewhat out the window. Things are happening so quickly, defenders have to be aware of where the ball is, basically impossible to also closely man mark an opponent.

Looking at that last still it's a hell of ball across from Angelino. Think our players are mostly doing the right thing, blocking that corridor in front of goal. Had Bissouma been a bit higher up it would pretty much be all good.
 
We'll need 2 wins out of the last 3 games to avoid playoffs. We make it difficult.
Honestly makes little difference. We’re are nowhere near consistent enough to win anything. It’ll be Ange’s undoing, I’m afraid.
 
Hmmn, that second half was a tough tough watch. Crowd was pretty flat the whole game, the team just wasn't great, Roma aren't mugs and Dybala was excellent.
My main take out is that we need to invest in top players, not "hopefulls" like Bergvall. We cannot compete in Europe when there are no forwards or game changers on the bench.
There's definitely concerns about how the squad will be able to cope with knockout EL football if we get there. Will most likely be tougher opposition on average, more on the line in each game. Less room for rotation.

But I'm also a firm believer in that the path to getting that squad includes buying and developing yonger players like Bergvall. We haven't been in a position where we could buy a top player instead of Bergvall who cost around 8m(?). Moving forward we may be in a situation where focusing more of our budget on a smaller number of here and now better players is possible.
 
It's that's weird confirmation bias that we see in here anytime we get a good win, a lot of people lose their heads a bit and start making grand conclusions based on that singular result which some cases could have gone completely a different way. City was a good win but they are in a terrible moment right now, winning that game didn't mean anything beyond the fact we won that game.

In some respects I kind of think a result and performance like today is sort of brings everyone back down to ground. We kept a clean against City but they deffo had their chances and should be disappointed they didn't score. Today reminds everyone that no, we are still far from the finished article and just swapping the CBs doesn't solve the systemic defensive issues.

In terms of the positives and I think there were quite a few. Kulu looked great for 65 minutes, his form is really, really drilled in right now. The replacement CBs largely coped with fitting into whatever it is that we do at the back. 😅

Bentancur had a good game before the rash challenge and the risk of a red. Son didn't look as past as usual but still a shadow of his former self.


Most importantly Foster looked comfortable I don't think you can attribute any blame for Thier goals to him and he again made some telling saves.
I see a lot more grand negative conclusions after losses like this than I see grand positive conclusions after a win.

I've yet to find a poster on here who doesn't think we're too inconsistent. I've yet to find a poster on here claiming that we've now turned a corner and that new disappointing performances aren't coming.

The only people who act like new disappointing performances aren't likely are those who mostly come on here to vent after losses.
 
I see a lot more grand negative conclusions after losses like this than I see grand positive conclusions after a win.

I've yet to find a poster on here who doesn't think we're too inconsistent. I've yet to find a poster on here claiming that we've now turned a corner and that new disappointing performances aren't coming.

The only people who act like new disappointing performances aren't likely are those who mostly come on here to vent after losses.
Personally it's not the performances I find that are the issue. Most people accept we're a work in progress and there will be ups and downs.

For me it's more that the performances are being hampered not helped by the tactics. Having the winger tuck in high when the attack is building up on the opposite side is what makes us continually vulnerable to any switch of play. Cool. Happens once, twice etc. A year later and numerous conceded chances and goals I expect it to be adjusted and fixed.

My observation in the match thread was that whether we win or not seems mainly down to whether the opposition takes their hands high percentage chances rather than us winning and controlling the game at both ends. With this approach I don't see how we'll ever be consistent. Only City managed it when they had the best players and the best back up for each position. Now they are aging and injuries and don't have the clear best players it doesn't work for them either.

I can't think of another team that play in such a way that challenge.
 
Very much an Ange style game. Chances at both ends. They had in the net 3 other times. We could have scored 5 or 6 if more clinical.

Solanke wasted some good moments, the 4 on 2, the cut back to Madders where he shot, the header. I know Solanke’s a forum favourite but I’m not totally sold. Very much in the Emile Heskey category for me until a decent run of scoring materialises.

I’d love for us to try and sign someone like Liam Delap. Young, hungry, fit, good technically, quick, already cutting it in the prep, decent ceiling.
 
Very much an Ange style game. Chances at both ends. They had in the net 3 other times. We could have scored 5 or 6 if more clinical.

Solanke wasted some good moments, the 4 on 2, the cut back to Madders where he shot, the header. I know Solanke’s a forum favourite but I’m not totally sold. Very much in the Emile Heskey category for me until a decent run of scoring materialises.

I’d love for us to try and sign someone like Liam Delap. Young, hungry, fit, good technically, quick, already cutting it in the prep, decent ceiling.
Solanke has been quality, goodness knows where we would be without his constant pressing and physicality. Yesterday wasn't his best game but when he's constantly being played, with his high energy game you're going to get the odd average/poor performance. He is the least of our problems....
 
Yeah, poor from Bissouma especially after how many times the offside trap saved us earlier in the match.

At least Bergvall headed the corner away and Maddison slid in to try and block the cross but Werner barely moved from the moment the corner sailed over his head whilst Porro just stood there even though there’s 4 Roma players between him and Solanke’s back.

View attachment 18136

WTF Bissouma? Equaliser 100% on him.
 
I think that's the kind of thing that happens to most teams. Corner is half cleared to the other side, everyone turns to see where the ball is (as they have to do) and moves somewhat in that direction, leaving people free at the back post.

It's the kind of situation where direct man marking goes somewhat out the window. Things are happening so quickly, defenders have to be aware of where the ball is, basically impossible to also closely man mark an opponent.

Looking at that last still it's a hell of ball across from Angelino. Think our players are mostly doing the right thing, blocking that corridor in front of goal. Had Bissouma been a bit higher up it would pretty much be all good.

I see a lot more grand negative conclusions after losses like this than I see grand positive conclusions after a win.

I've yet to find a poster on here who doesn't think we're too inconsistent. I've yet to find a poster on here claiming that we've now turned a corner and that new disappointing performances aren't coming.

The only people who act like new disappointing performances aren't likely are those who mostly come on here to vent after losses.
But did you not see people concluding that the goals we've been conceding where down solely to Romero's presence? Our non picking up of players on crosses is just what happens in an Ange team.

Weirdly I don't even see yesterday as especially negative, maybe because I didn't take the City game as meaning all that much in the grand scheme of things. We played a good side albeit in poor form but a good side nonetheless, we had the better of the first half, they had the better of the 2nd. A draw was a fair result in reflection.

The goals and the chances we concede are because that's the way we play and the coach doesn't really see it as an issue. He wants to score and blow the opposition away, cool we just need to improve the attack to make that a reality.
 
Personally it's not the performances I find that are the issue. Most people accept we're a work in progress and there will be ups and downs.

For me it's more that the performances are being hampered not helped by the tactics. Having the winger tuck in high when the attack is building up on the opposite side is what makes us continually vulnerable to any switch of play. Cool. Happens once, twice etc. A year later and numerous conceded chances and goals I expect it to be adjusted and fixed.

My observation in the match thread was that whether we win or not seems mainly down to whether the opposition takes their hands high percentage chances rather than us winning and controlling the game at both ends. With this approach I don't see how we'll ever be consistent. Only City managed it when they had the best players and the best back up for each position. Now they are aging and injuries and don't have the clear best players it doesn't work for them either.

I can't think of another team that play in such a way that challenge.
Roma's overload was there all half. It was a fairly obvious tactic, target the inexperienced young player playing out of position. I remember we were talking about it as it was happening but we never responded to it. Which for me is Ange thinking that our pre transition shape is more important than protecting the wide areas.

Like you say the open player out wide happens too consistently for it to be just an oversight. It's an accepted pain to play Ange's desired system. Without going into real depth, I don't believe the system works or will work with some of the attackers we play. The player profiles just don't work. I think we will continue to struggle with consistency because like you say it's not so much us shutting the opposition down it's about who scores first and whether the opposition can take their chances or not.
 
But did you not see people concluding that the goals we've been conceding where down solely to Romero's presence? Our non picking up of players on crosses is just what happens in an Ange team.

Weirdly I don't even see yesterday as especially negative, maybe because I didn't take the City game as meaning all that much in the grand scheme of things. We played a good side albeit in poor form but a good side nonetheless, we had the better of the first half, they had the better of the 2nd. A draw was a fair result in reflection.

The goals and the chances we concede are because that's the way we play and the coach doesn't really see it as an issue. He wants to score and blow the opposition away, cool we just need to improve the attack to make that a reality.
Absolutely . I’ve seen people say we concede mostly because of errors and whilst that is certainly partly true, as you say, most of our goals are because of how we play and how we setup. It’s very clear that defending isn’t a major priority for Ange. We don’t ever look solid and we rarely keep a clean sheet (Saturday aside). I think people just need to accept this is how we play and it may lead us to success in the cups but it’s also just as likely to be the reason we get knocked out of any cup competition as we seem unable to win close games 1 or 2-0 and it’s also highly unlikely to win us any title unless we seriously upgrade on the forwards as you and I have been saying for a year but people seem happy with them for the most part, I don’t include Solanke as he’s only just got here.
 
I see a lot more grand negative conclusions after losses like this than I see grand positive conclusions after a win.

It was a draw, not a defeat, but your point still stands.

Everyone has a pet theory; here's one from the Grauniad that made me smile.

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I mean, he's been dead for years, but fair point; bring him back! :)
 
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