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***OMT TOTTENHAM HOTSPUR vs Liverpool***

Mikey10 said:
www.theguardian.com

‘We have to learn’: Kulusevski on Ange-ball and what next for Spurs

Swede knows after 6-3 defeat there are moments for team to be more solid, more savvy, to consider the broader context
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com

‘In the end, it’s about whether Spurs’s approach is sustainable. “No, maybe not,” Kulusevski said. “But you have to improve. You have to find ways. Maybe we should have let them have the ball more, but that’s not how we play. We went out, we gave everything, it didn’t work. Maybe we learn for the next time.”

Poor bloke sounds as confused as some of the rest of us.
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It's not a glowing endorsement of the managers approach is it?
 
I could coach a team to beat this Spurs team. Just cross early to the back post and time your run when over / under lapping as they try to play you off and rarely get it right when defending on the edge of the box.

They never track the runner.
 
Yiddo said:
I could coach a team to beat this Spurs team. Just cross early to the back post and time your run when over / under lapping as they try to play you off and rarely get it right when defending on the edge of the box.

They never track the runner.
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Little simplistic, most teams move across to the ball side (leaves space at back post)

Playing Spurs is like fighting a knock out artist with a glass chin, yes if you are brave you could floor them repeatedly, but equally you can be 3 down in 10 minutes and then mentality comes into play.

The track the runner & errors are hugely influenced by fatigue/leggy players ..

I always though Pool was going to be our worst game, patient, experienced and clinical in their moments.
 
lurker of old said:
I don’t see many issue other than lack of quantity at the right quality
I certainly hope you are right in that, as the club must be able to afford a bigger squad, so that issue can be fixed.
But why were we were so, so easy to score against? Is this just down to our players' fatigue, ie because they are all knackered, or are the midfielders and fullbacks just far too far up the pitch? If leaving the centre-backs so exposed is part and parcel of Angeball, I understand why people think it is crazy. Surely Ange can ask the DM to drop back a bit, without compromising his approach?
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That is our biggest problem, we do not have a player who is good enough to be a natural DM. Its a specialist posistion and none of our present CMs are really good at it.
 
Raziel said:
Little simplistic, most teams move across to the ball side (leaves space at back post)

Playing Spurs is like fighting a knock out artist with a glass chin, yes if you are brave you could floor them repeatedly, but equally you can be 3 down in 10 minutes and then mentality comes into play.

The track the runner & errors are hugely influenced by fatigue/leggy players ..

I always though Pool was going to be our worst game, patient, experienced and clinical in their moments.
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lol - now you mention it, Spurs do have a lot of Herol Bomber Graham about us :)
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Well
We cant even start with defence if you look at it
We had a broken right back
A right back at left back in his 2nd league start for us
A CM playing CB
And a CB in his 19th game for us and 10th start
Oh… and an aging veteran in goal
Now that kind of defence may get us by against some sides but not the best side in Europe currently
Then add in the fatigue issue
The system isn’t why Bissouma twice gave them the ball very simply. It’s either his technique or mental and physical fatigue I’m speculating (he pants really well with the ball midweek for most of the game but faded as is normal for a high energy DM)
As I showed last night the first two goals we weren’t exposed. The first was an outstanding cross and the second, imo, was inexperience between Spence and Gray
The killer was the third when Drago went and didn’t get near. That killed us and the game
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Granted we do have injuries but we've been making silly mistakes in defence all season, we've had what 1 or 2 clean sheets so something isn't working at the back. Maybe the players can't handle the system and type of football required, we saw this with Pep in his 1st season and he only resolved it by spending hundreds of millions. We're not in a position to do that so I can only think we need to make a few tweaks to tighten things up. There's playing a certain way and then there's stubborn.
 
DubSpur said:
There's a balance. Porro can't read the game. He doesn't know when to get up in support and when to stay a bit deeper. We are constantly targeted in that area and it doesn't matter who we are playing against they get joy down our right. Compare it to how Spence played. He was up against Salah, the best player in the league at the moment. He handled him really well and picked his moments to get forward too.

It wasn't only on the third goal that Dragusin got caught out. There was 3 or 4 times he chased into midfield leaving a huge gap behind him. I don't know if that's the player or instructions from Ange. Romero can be guilty of it too so it could be down to Ange.

You don't have to change the whole set up, just make tweaks so it's not as gung-ho, especially against a team like Liverpool that will punish any mistakes.
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Truth be told, when I saw Udogie had not made it yesterday I was concerned. Pedro is on fumes. I worry about him breaking down. I was really hoping he'd get a rest and Spence could play there.

It's an interesting question re: is it Ange or the players. I think the philosophy is Ange's, but the individual decisions are the players. I wonder how much fatigue is playing in to bad decision making too?
I understand some folks here will think I am making excuses, and that's all good.
 
P.D. said:
Granted we do have injuries but we've been making silly mistakes in defence all season, we've had what 1 or 2 clean sheets so something isn't working at the back. Maybe the players can't handle the system and type of football required, we saw this with Pep in his 1st season and he only resolved it by spending hundreds of millions. We're not in a position to do that so I can only think we need to make a few tweaks to tighten things up. There's playing a certain way and then there's stubborn.
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The silly mistakes are imo rarely if ever been anything to do with the system
I analysed the goals of that long ago and it was scary
For example the Romero classic leave them man and attack another area
Or the don’t mark anyone on the cross
We have generally been fine on counters and corners, last years Achilles heel
 
monkeybarry said:
There is something in that re Man C and Arsenal, for sure. And the parallels with Pep right now are stark.

However, we are not top - and rarely have been.
We can all say "it'll be fine when x happens" - and I have openness to that.

Although your response does seem rather close to "buy all the top players " for Ange's philosophy to work. And I have some sympathy with that position too - even you need a different type of player (even if they are not the top players), then it takes time to rebuild.

But my question is about the now. If the players are not right yet, why accept losing and fitting square pegs in round holes ahead of a manager managing until we get the full suite of players he needs? Why comes back to my question re; where your red line is. How low are you prepared to let things go before we get Ange's perfect set up?

I'm very confused as to why people keep circumnavigating that question.
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I feel I've articulated an answer to that question elsewhere? Happy to give it a go again.

There is a long-term project/style in place. The club bought into it. The staff bought into it. The boardroom bought into it. We have put together a squad suited to that project/style. We have taken the route of youth maturing over a couple of years, alongside a few slightly older heads. We find ourselves with an injury crisis and having to use youth beyond their natural development stages. If we panic now, and throw out 18 months of work for some short-term pragmatism, firstly there is no guarantee that a pragmatic approach will work because they players are trained into a system and the pragmatism being demanded around here would require training ground work (we barely have the time between matches and recovery). It is uncomfortable, yes. But the bright spots are that certain players are growing into giants during this time. Learning so so much.

You ask about a red line. Here's mine.
If we enter the summer with a board which has not supported the manager in a way that helps him do his job -and if with a fitter/more available squad we continue to be unable to achieve any true consistency, then I think he would leave anyway. But for me personally, it would have to be pretty desperate/flirting with relegation to not give another chunk of time to make this work. But the most important buy-in will be at boardroom level.
 
thfcsteff said:
I feel I've articulated an answer to that question elsewhere? Happy to give it a go again.

There is a long-term project/style in place. The club bought into it. The staff bought into it. The boardroom bought into it. We have put together a squad suited to that project/style. We have taken the route of youth maturing over a couple of years, alongside a few slightly older heads. We find ourselves with an injury crisis and having to use youth beyond their natural development stages. If we panic now, and throw out 18 months of work for some short-term pragmatism, firstly there is no guarantee that a pragmatic approach will work because they players are trained into a system and the pragmatism being demanded around here would require training ground work (we barely have the time between matches and recovery). It is uncomfortable, yes. But the bright spots are that certain players are growing into giants during this time. Learning so so much.

You ask about a red line. Here's mine.
If we enter the summer with a board which has not supported the manager in a way that helps him do his job -and if with a fitter/more available squad we continue to be unable to achieve any true consistency, then I think he would leave anyway. But for me personally, it would have to be pretty desperate/flirting with relegation to not give another chunk of time to make this work. But the most important buy-in will be at boardroom level.
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The players have brought into to it too
 
Bedfordspurs said:
But that looks like they commit both their full backs to attack…
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However they have a double pivot shielding their CBs and both MacAllister plus Gravenbach might each be considered superior to (the perennially inconsistent) Bissouma or (post cruciate injury) Bentancur.

They also have an aerially dominant CB in van Dijk who is much better at dealing with crosses than Dragusin, Romero or van de Ven let alone young Gray.

Liverpool also have one of the world’s best wide attackers in Salah who can punish a knackered full-back far more ruthlessly than any of our wingers are capable of.
 
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