OMT Tottenham Hotspur vs Hoffenheim

[Kandi1977]

Man I've missed that winning feeling! Life is just better now!

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

Let's hope the only bad news on the injury front from tonight.

Yeah....Archie definitely took a knock towards the end.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Yeah....Archie definitely took a knock towards the end.

Think we have so many on the limits

 

[DubSpur]

Didn’t get to see most of it as was out and about. Caught the bits on Sky Go where they were dominating but believe we battered them first half. What was the summary and who played well?

Good result in fairness. Fair play to Ange and the players.

It wasn't a good performance in all honesty. Hoffenheim are terrible. We should've been 4 or 5 up in first half. Madders and Richi played well in the first half. Richi ran out of steam and was subbed, Madders went hiding in the second half.
We were under the cosh for a lot of the second half, our passing was brutal, giving the ball away constantly. Several times we had promising breaks to kill the game and each time messed up the pass.
Gray was our standout player, Bergvall decent, and Kulu good in patches but looks to be running on fumes.
The result was the only thing that really mattered when you look at what we had out there, 3 players just back from injury, several players looking exhausted, and ending up with 5 under 20s finishing the game.

 

[thfcsteff]

Barely

 

[thfcsteff]

Didn’t get to see most of it as was out and about. Caught the bits on Sky Go where they were dominating but believe we battered them first half. What was the summary and who played well?

Good result in fairness. Fair play to Ange and the players.

The summary is we did everything we could, it was enough, we were IMO heroic in that effort, the performance is beyond any reasonable analysis given circumstances, Maddison and Sonny stood up to be counted, 5 teenagers ended the game and we are heroes.

 

[Kompakted]

A win's a win. The problem is, other than the GK and LB, the same team will be playing Leicester in just 3 days time. Play like we did in the second half against them and we have a strong possibility of losing. We look weary mentally as much as physically.

 

[thfcsteff]

A win's a win. The problem is, other than the GK and LB, the same team will be playing Leicester in just 3 days time. Play like we did in the second half against them and we have a strong possibility of losing. We look weary mentally as much as physically.

I think we will win on Sunday. Do not underestimate what this win means. And why wouldn't we play like the first-half? Spence rested at least...

 

[SteveAWOL]

Thankfully Leicester are also complete brick and Elfsborg is surely winnable too, by which point players start coming back.

The last time we won a Europa League match was against AZ Alkmaar and (despite having given Romero, van de Ven and Porro the week off) we followed that up by handing Palace their first win of the season!

So I shan’t be counting my chickens just yet but hopefully the squad has learnt from this experience and we’ll get back to winning ways

 

[Muttley]

We didn't play, but we won. In my opinion it is a big win as well, leaving us 6th in the table out of 36. One big push required to make the knockouts.

My MOTM was Dragusin. His partner Davies was having some serious wobbles and he once again stood tall and batted most things away. He won the big headers and tackles and kept things simple. He seems to get the Ange principle of holding that line and getting the offside flag up. Unfortunately Davies doesn't. Poor Ben must be out on his feet though. Didn't exactly get eased back in.

I did have a little chuckle at Ange's latest tactic to get some transfers in. He only named 8 subs and 2 of them were keepers. Subtle as a brick

 

[metalgear]

It wasn't a good performance in all honesty. Hoffenheim are terrible. We should've been 4 or 5 up in first half. Madders and Richi played well in the first half. Richi ran out of steam and was subbed, Madders went hiding in the second half.
We were under the cosh for a lot of the second half, our passing was brutal, giving the ball away constantly. Several times we had promising breaks to kill the game and each time messed up the pass.
Gray was our standout player, Bergvall decent, and Kulu good in patches but looks to be running on fumes.
The result was the only thing that really mattered when you look at what we had out there, 3 players just back from injury, several players looking exhausted, and ending up with 5 under 20s finishing the game.

if son, kulu or porro start in the next match i fear one of them will get injured.

 

[Mrs Vert]

A win's a win. The problem is, other than the GK and LB, the same team will be playing Leicester in just 3 days time. Play like we did in the second half against them and we have a strong possibility of losing. We look weary mentally as much as physically.

If only Reg could play and Porro can get a rest......

 

[braineclipse]

A win's a win. The problem is, other than the GK and LB, the same team will be playing Leicester in just 3 days time. Play like we did in the second half against them and we have a strong possibility of losing. We look weary mentally as much as physically.

Yeah, a couple of of players out that we have no idea on if they could be back for the Leicester game or not. But probably again a fairly exhausted team that we put out with few options on the bench.

For the mental part a hard fought win should do them good. For the physical part, not so much.

 

[Chrissivad]

We didn't play, but we won. In my opinion it is a big win as well, leaving us 6th in the table out of 36. One big push required to make the knockouts.

My MOTM was Dragusin. His partner Davies was having some serious wobbles and he once again stood tall and batted most things away. He won the big headers and tackles and kept things simple. He seems to get the Ange principle of holding that line and getting the offside flag up. Unfortunately Davies doesn't. Poor Ben must be out on his feet though. Didn't exactly get eased back in.

I did have a little chuckle at Ange's latest tactic to get some transfers in. He only named 8 subs and 2 of them were keepers. Subtle as a brick

We normally name 2 keepers on the bench in European matches, don't we?

Hopefully the club are working hard and we see some transfers soon.

 

[braineclipse]

if son, kulu or porro start in the next match i fear one of them will get injured.

Been fearing that for weeks...

 

[braineclipse]

We didn't play, but we won. In my opinion it is a big win as well, leaving us 6th in the table out of 36. One big push required to make the knockouts.

My MOTM was Dragusin. His partner Davies was having some serious wobbles and he once again stood tall and batted most things away. He won the big headers and tackles and kept things simple. He seems to get the Ange principle of holding that line and getting the offside flag up. Unfortunately Davies doesn't. Poor Ben must be out on his feet though. Didn't exactly get eased back in.

I did have a little chuckle at Ange's latest tactic to get some transfers in. He only named 8 subs and 2 of them were keepers. Subtle as a brick

Thought both Dragusin and Davies had good games in difficult circumstances.

Romero would have been slated by some on here if he put in the performance Dragusin did. Not marking anyone for their goal, leading Porro to deal with two men. Not marking his man for the header against the bar.

They both had moments where they could have done better, but also quite a few moments where they did really well.

 

[stratnumberone]

View attachment 18615

This belongs in the match thread for Sunday

 

[Muttley]

Thought both Dragusin and Davies had good games in difficult circumstances.

Romero would have been slated by some on here if he put in the performance Dragusin did. Not marking anyone for their goal, leading Porro to deal with two men. Not marking his man for the header against the bar.

They both had moments where they could have done better, but also quite a few moments where they did really well.

It's definitely frustrating watching defenders using all of their cognition to make sure they form the perfect line rather than use their cognition to find their man, mark them and stop goals. Davies positioning was just awful last night. When they hit the crossbar he had drifted so far over that he brought Dragusin over to his man and left Dragu's free. Of course Dragu will be the one getting the bashing. For the first goal, Davies is in an awful position. He needs to able to get between ball and player as the cross comes in. Too slow as well. Gray plays them on though and Dragu doesn't intercept that ball either. Bad all round. Second goal, is the more interesting one. You have Porro and Dragusin holding their bodies on the 18 yard line as per instruction. Davies is 1-2 yards deeper and not playing the Ange system at all. That allows the 2 forwards to go earlier than they would have done and attack the space. Not great from Bents and Madds who could have been supporting Gray better. That meant Davies had to drift over and brought Dragu and Porro with him. That meant that a great cross like that took our best header out of the game. Again, bad all round.

lol - perhaps we should go and get Don Howe and George Graham and get some of this defending sorted. It is absolutely chaotic. You can't just use offside as your only defensive resource. It needs to be smarter from Ange and his coaches.

As for Davies, you can see why I'm totally OK with him rolling off the roster. He doesn't have the physiology for a top level centre half. He doesn't make up for it either with defensive capabilities. In fact, they are quite poor when you watch him closely. He still looks like a LB playing out of position.

Anyway, we won. These guys made some defensive mistakes but they once again gave their all for the shirt. That is not lost on me either.

 

[braineclipse]

It's definitely frustrating watching defenders using all of their cognition to make sure they form the perfect line rather than use their cognition to find their man, mark them and stop goals. Davies positioning was just awful last night. When they hit the crossbar he had drifted so far over that he brought Dragusin over to his man and left Dragu's free. Of course Dragu will be the one getting the bashing. For the first goal, Davies is in an awful position. He needs to able to get between ball and player as the cross comes in. Too slow as well. Gray plays them on though and Dragu doesn't intercept that ball either. Bad all round. Second goal, is the more interesting one. You have Porro and Dragusin holding their bodies on the 18 yard line as per instruction. Davies is 1-2 yards deeper and not playing the Ange system at all. That allows the 2 forwards to go earlier than they would have done and attack the space. Not great from Bents and Madds who could have been supporting Gray better. That meant Davies had to drift over and brought Dragu and Porro with him. That meant that a great cross like that took our best header out of the game. Again, bad all round.

lol - perhaps we should go and get Don Howe and George Graham and get some of this defending sorted. It is absolutely chaotic. You can't just use offside as your only defensive resource. It needs to be smarter from Ange and his coaches.

As for Davies, you can see why I'm totally OK with him rolling off the roster. He doesn't have the physiology for a top level centre half. He doesn't make up for it either with defensive capabilities. In fact, they are quite poor when you watch him closely. He still looks like a LB playing out of position.

Anyway, we won. These guys made some defensive mistakes but they once again gave their all for the shirt. That is not lost on me either.

Yeah, we definitely see this very differently.

For the first one Davies holds the line set by Porro and Dragusin. Neither Davies or Dragusin are so quick that they can then get in to block the most dangerous area. Had Davies focused on the man he can't hold the offside line... He can't just follow his man there, not with Porro and Dragusin setting the offside line.

Second one Davies drops a bit deeper because there's a dangerous run behind him. Should he just gamble on the offside there with limited pressure on the man with the ball?

First one you criticise him for being too focused on the offside, instead of following the man. Second goal he is dropping because there's a run, but then you blame him for not sticking to the offside line.

Surely it's up to the players further away from play who can see both the play and their teammates to adjust. As Davies did for the first goal.

For me these "issues" arise because we don't get pressure on the man with the ball. For the first or because it's a counter attack and Porro is overloaded. For the second one because we're not defending with enough intensity wide.

 

[Muttley]

Yeah, we definitely see this very differently.

For the first one Davies holds the line set by Porro and Dragusin. Neither Davies or Dragusin are so quick that they can then get in to block the most dangerous area. Had Davies focused on the man he can't hold the offside line... He can't just follow his man there, not with Porro and Dragusin setting the offside line.

Second one Davies drops a bit deeper because there's a dangerous run behind him. Should he just gamble on the offside there with limited pressure on the man with the ball?

First one you criticise him for being too focused on the offside, instead of following the man. Second goal he is dropping because there's a run, but then you blame him for not sticking to the offside line.

Surely it's up to the players further away from play who can see both the play and their teammates to adjust. As Davies did for the first goal.

For me these "issues" arise because we don't get pressure on the man with the ball. For the first or because it's a counter attack and Porro is overloaded. For the second one because we're not defending with enough intensity wide.

It's actually great to analyse these goals together.

For that first goal, looking closer the biggest issue is Davies's physiology. It's having no pace to get from the 18 yard line to the 6 yard line comfortably so you can set yourself. That's the awful position I was talking about, not the starting one. Ben then is awkward because it needs the right foot and he's caught thinking about the more natural left foot and the guy has stolen the march on him. He is wrong side. He also needed Gray to play the offisde trap. Gray was using his own instincts and young legs to think he could save the day by sweeping all around the back rather than letting the guy drift off. It was a great disguised ball though. Most of our lot thought it was coming over the left back side.

We can analyse all day, but the primary basis for our defence is the line that needs to be held and the use of the offside track. All these guys need to trust it and learn it inside out if that is the chosen way. Some won't be suited as they don't have the pace to play within that system. That leaves question marks on Dragusin and Davies. Dragusin is our box defender who might just about make the full transition to it, and give us his other strengths. Davies doesn't bring much to the table in my opinion. Phillips and Vuskovic won't be seen so much until they've had it drilled into them but at least have the physiology. Ben doesn't.

Your point about the midfield role is massively key. It won't work without the pressing and even the overload. That goes for the 2 wide players as well. We will smother teams eventually with the right players and rotation.