***OMT Tottenham Hotspur v Burnlio, Sat Jan 24th, 3pm***

[Bishop]

Mate, I don't rate Frank

- but the club isn't helping him (maybe they know he's a dead man?), to this point they have made 1 opportunistic buy of a player profile we don't need and a youth punt.
- the assumption would be, having realized the club needs to act, it would have included a player or two aligned to what the new manager needs.

The last point is why you and I disagree re squad, you describe a poorly coached squad yet refuse to acknowledge it's the guy doing the coaching. Again yesterday, we watched a poorer squad with a less experienced manager look better coached and organized, they knew how to transition, they knew how to make short passes, within the limits of their squad they have produced results better than them (draws against us, Pool and City?) while we produce results worse than the squad (West Ham, Burnley, Wolves, etc.)

I don't really think our lack of ability is down to poor coaching. You have to understand this isn't new for me, I've been bemoaning the lack of quality for years at this point.

What you see as poor coaching I see as a fundamentally low ability level. I thought this under Ange, I thought it under Conte. Of course in those days we had a couple of Moments FC players who could massively paper over very real cracks. Solanke being an average player isn't due to poor coaching, he's just an average player. Gallagher not having the passing range of Xavi (the real one) isn't anything to do with Frank, he's never had the passing range.

By all means sack the manager, but give the next guy this same group of players and you will be back here complaining about the poor quality of the coaching whomever that is.

 

[Raziel]

I don't really think our lack of ability is down to poor coaching. You have to understand this isn't new for me, I've been bemoaning the lack of quality for years at this point.

What you see as poor coaching I see as a fubdembatal low ability level. I thought this under Ange, I thought it under Conte. Of course in those days we had a couple of Moments FC players who could massively paper over very real cracks. Solanke being an average player isn't due to poor coaching, he's just an average player. Gallagher not having the passing range of Xavi (the real one) isn't anything to do with Frank, he's never had the passing range.

By all means sack the manager, but give the next guy this same group of players and you will be back here complaining about the poor quality of the coaching whomever that is.

And we don't disagree re quality, just where that bar is (top 8 vs. top 16 as example)

The club needs to buy at least 2 elite level players, prime Son and JD (not even Kane) in this team and no one would say the squad is brick and all of a sudden those younger/prospect players would look better and smarter buys.

That said, I really think pretty much any fudging manager except Frank would have got more than 3 points against Brentford, Sunderland, Bournemouth, West Ham and Burnley with this squad. And I'm really sorry, but you saw coaching in West Ham, you saw coaching in Burnley, you saw way worse players (by anyone's measurements) have outlets to pass, know how to transition, know how to recover their shape, us? 3 CBs and a keeper completely undone by one cross.

 

[MartyFunkhouser]

? 3 CBs and a keeper completely undone by one cross.

Thats as much to do with player arrogance than it is coaching. You can smell how much Romero, MVDV and Vicario think of themselves as player through the TV.

It was the same for Dier here under various managers to a lesser extent, but I have seen this game and type of reaction too many times to not spot the warning signs about some players and their mentality.

Romero particularly has played this same role for many a year, and I love him for it because when it comes off its a dream, but attacking the ball, you have to get it and when you do its a joy, but when its not, its a disaster............and he has done that for more managers than just Thomas Frank.

 

[Mr Gogolak]

Another horrible performance. It's not even about the result anymore, it's just the sheer boredom of having to watch through these snoozefests week in, week out. We look like a discount version of that Norway team under Egil Olsen: more focused on winning 'second balls' and maximising set pieces rather than actually trying to play football.

Sure, the squad doesn't help: there isn't a single player vision the vision and passing skill to create anything, but Frank's philosophy is making things even more painful. I'd take Ossie Ardiles over him at the moment. We were poor but at least, the games were fun to watch.

They haven't sacked him yet so I take it we'll have to suffer all the way until March before they finally pull the trigger. It's going to be four long, long weeks.

 

[Raziel]

Another horrible performance. It's not even about the result anymore, it's just the sheer boredom of having to watch through these snoozefests week in, week out. We look like a discount version of that Norway team under Egil Olsen: more focused on winning 'second balls' and maximising set pieces rather than actually trying to play football.

Sure, the squad doesn't help: there isn't a single player vision the vision and passing skill to create anything, but Frank's philosophy is making things even more painful. I'd take Ossie Ardiles over him at the moment. We were poor but at least, the games were fun to watch.

They haven't sacked him yet so I take it we'll have to suffer all the way until March before they finally pull the trigger. It's going to be four long, long weeks.

And the normalization of failure continues, 45 minutes of ok performance becomes something to praise.

 

[braineclipse]

Surely a caretaker would be even more next game focused, as that would make them more likely to keep the job.

A caretaker would have the rest of the season to focus on rather than keeping them in the job for the next game/week.

 

[braineclipse]

Surely thats the opposite of desperate? Changes because of injury, works, goes again with it considering injuries? Would have worked fine but for brain farts rather than systematically

I think thats the opposite of desperate, I think thats fairly level

I think there is a level of needing wins for confidence and thats etched on his face BUT alot of what is being done is because of injuries, the squads so unbalanced its untrue and something we don't seem to be addressing this month for Frank or any manager

If Frank was always going to go with a back 3 against Burnley because that suited that game I wouldn't think of it as desperate. But having just gotten a result with that against Dortmund, then going again with that against Burnley - a very different team than Dortmund.

I thought one of the benefits of Frank/a pragmatic and tactically flexible manager was that he would adjust more to the opposition. Maybe Dortmund and Burnley are more similar than I think.

 

[MartyFunkhouser]

If Frank was always going to go with a back 3 against Burnley because that suited that game I wouldn't think of it as desperate. But having just gotten a result with that against Dortmund, then going again with that against Burnley - a very different team than Dortmund.

I thought one of the benefits of Frank/a pragmatic and tactically flexible manager was that he would adjust more to the opposition. Maybe Dortmund and Burnley are more similar than I think.

But that doesn't account for the fact that injuries are causing us issues in our options. Going with wingbacks with our wingers currently available makes sense.

I would say its cards dealt and dealing with them over desperation. I am sure he is desperate for results we all are, but I don't think trying to get two good performances in a row is that, also think yesterday was decent performance wise overall.

 

[braineclipse]

And the normalization of failure continues, 45 minutes of ok performance becomes something to praise.

Guess we can hope that games against bigger teams will be more suited to Frankball and that rather than throwing a caretaker right into this mess and really difficult fixture list there's more chance of Frank finding some solutions. And if not a slightly easier time fixture list wise for someone to come in then if the slide down the table continues?

 

[Dr Rosenrosen]

I'm worried. We are all worried, but we could easily have won a bunch of these last few matches and been a couple of points off CL places. Small margins and all that.

The thing is, we (I) watch matches through lilywhite-tinted lenses. We (I) kick ourselves and rue each Spurs missed chance (coulda, woulda, shoulda), but discount or forget our opponents' efforts that fly over the bar, that Vicario saves easily, shots that go wide instead of curling into the net, a mis-hit pass, an unlucky bounce, etc. Each opponent could have also just as easily won the matches we drew or won, small margins and all that.

 

[Jurgen the German]

18 months, not 5 or 6 seasons and would have been easily recoverable with right moves. This narrative that the team has been trash since Poch is revisionism at it's finest.

4th, 6th, 7th, 4th, 8th, 5th, 17th with 2 cup finals and a Europa win.

Reality the team was less than 5 points off top 4 in December, if the club had fired Frank then, brough in a decent manager and given them a signing or two in Jan window we would have everything to still play for. Now the goal is not to be squeaky bum time until end of season.

fudging amazing how this clubs fans went from top 4 as a goal lacked ambition -> well squad is brick, you can't expect us to beat Burnley and West Ham and Fulham

We’ve definitely been on the decline for the most part since Poch left. The overall trend has been down with the odd good season thrown in. You replace Toby with Dier, Kane with Richarlison, Son with Tel and Walker with Trippier and it’s not a surprise you see a team on the decline.

 

[Mrs Vert]

And the normalization of failure continues, 45 minutes of ok performance becomes something to praise.

Gotta take the little wins and improvements when we can. Cos on the whole its been atrocious

 

[thfcsteff]

Solanke is a critical enabler to a system. He was for Ange and he will be for Frank. There's always better out there but he's one of a kind in our squad in my opinion. We will need a competing number 9 as we look beyond Richi and Muani. Be nice to think one of our own young lads can step up.

Did you notice the game patterns as Solanke got tired through the 90 mins? Little things like as the strength sapped out of him he started to lose more of the physical one on ones. He also wasn't working right across the line as the legs tired

I just want to see the guy 100% match fit. We should never judge player form before that happens really.

I agree with your appraisal and stand by my views on him. A good player for sure, but not elite.

 

[thfcsteff]

I'm not sure we are drifting, I think its a case of not being able to put two good weeks together because of injuries. We can't put any emphasis on being a lot better when we play one team one week and inevitably the posts are moving and we have to, on average, account for 2 changes the manager wouldn't likely make come the next.

I am not saying manager don't have to deal with injuries, they do, but equally they are all struggling for consistency from what I can see too. We are 8 points of bottom 4 and 8 points off the top floor, that is massively telling about us and also the state of the league and their inability to get any consistency.

I don't think we have been anywhere near as bad as what people are making out, mid week we were superb and yesterday we were the much better side, West Ham was abysmal but I thought we were decent enough against Villa and Bournemouth.

We can't seem to get any momentum going. Frank has made mistakes BTW, I am not saying he hasn't, but there are as always at Spurs issues that are greater than the manager.

Our current injury list reads like a horror show of players you would miss

View attachment 21443

I don't disagree, but of those players, the following are not deemed good enough by many on here:

Bentancur
Davies
Richy
Palhinha

Bergvall sits in a neutral area it appears

Deki
Maddison are both revered

Look, I think all are very good players who we miss as options, but just pointing out that for many, they wouldn't matter as much anyway?

I think it pays to look at the options he currently does have. It's not even that he cannot get a tune out of them, it is that he thinks he is getting a tune, but the note is fudging horrible!!!! It's his HEARING that bothers me (metaphorically)...

 

[MartyFunkhouser]

I don't disagree, but of those players, the following are not deemed good enough by many on here:

Bentancur
Davies
Richy
Palhinha

Bergvall sits in a neutral area it appears

Deki
Maddison are both revered

Look, I think all are very good players who we miss as options, but just pointing out that for many, they wouldn't matter as much anyway?

I think it pays to look at the options he currently does have. It's not even that he cannot get a tune out of them, it is that he thinks he is getting a tune, but the note is fudging horrible!!!! It's his HEARING that bothers me (metaphorically)...

noted But they are still our strongest players give or take, even if half of them need improving they still improve alot of what we have available. There is also a massive loss of balance in the side currently.

 

[glasgowspur]

I don't disagree, but of those players, the following are not deemed good enough by many on here:

Bentancur
Davies
Richy
Palhinha

Bergvall sits in a neutral area it appears

Deki
Maddison are both revered

Look, I think all are very good players who we miss as options, but just pointing out that for many, they wouldn't matter as much anyway?

I think it pays to look at the options he currently does have. It's not even that he cannot get a tune out of them, it is that he thinks he is getting a tune, but the note is fudging horrible!!!! It's his HEARING that bothers me (metaphorically)...

They're all good players, just like frank is a good coach, but are they compatible or complementary.
I really don't think they are, our squad is like one of those you get at the beginning of FM or some computer game, a little bit of everything and it's up to you to decide how you want to break it up and rebuild it.