If Anyone ever needed proof stats tell half the story. If lloris was good off his feet he would be At one of the best clubs in bt world. Statos go wild but this is the truth
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***OMT - Spurs vs Liverpool***
- Thread starter Baleforce
- Start date
If Anyone ever needed proof stats tell half the story. If lloris was good off his feet he would be At one of the best clubs in bt world. Statos go wild but this is the truth
Pirate55
The Last Man Standing 17/18
But it wasn't just the speed of our passing that was the problem, it was the way the team was set up and the fact that unbelievably we were playing a high line against fast, speedy attackers. I agree that Rose and Verts were big misses, but we didn't help ourselves with the stupidly high line we played. One mistake and our back line was immediately exposed. Look at the run at goals Mane and Firminho had. We were sooooo open. We needed bodies in there to make sure there was no space between the back line and Lloris. Others had shown this was the way to play against Liverpool. This was our key mistake imo - and that was all down to Poch.
Wanyama and Dembele could have been instructed to stay further back to offer greater cover, then there would have been no need for Toby to commit himself so far forward in the build up to the first goal. We could also have had Eriksen staying deeper or Winks on from the start instead of say Dembele. Then we could have stretched the play by missing out midfield and going long to Kane with Dele and Son running off him and keeping the Liverpool back four fully occupied instead of our usual slow build up play from the back. Wrong tactic from the start and it took Poch far to long to rectify it - and by exchanging Eriksen for Winks it was just like for like and offered us nothing different.
Poch also failed to get the team revved up for a game from the start. Not the first time we have been guilty of this and again it appears he doesn't learn from his mistakes. Is he a good motivator? He keeps talking about a lack of aggressivity - but time and time again we see us not being aggressive from the start of games.
I think Poch has a lot of good qualities but he still has a lot to learn on the motivational front imo.
nayenezgani
Jimmy Neighbour
That graphic is a great illustration of our attacking players too often occupying the same areas.
There wasn't enough individual movement to allow for cutting edge in our forward play. I feel this is an ongoing issue.
At one point in the second half Son, Alli and Eriksen all took up positions on the right within touching distance. Defied belief!
There wasn't enough individual movement to allow for cutting edge in our forward play. I feel this is an ongoing issue.
At one point in the second half Son, Alli and Eriksen all took up positions on the right within touching distance. Defied belief!
That is why I wonder if Son is being blamed unfairly for not supporting Davies. I think he may have been under instruction to occupy the space left vacant by Clyne when he ventured forward in the hope that when the Pool move breaks down Son, or Alli at times, could then exploit this. Indeed, our chance was down to Son being upfield.
This is a bit of a gamble for both teams, as it depends on making good decisions about when to go forward by Clyne and when to move by any supporting player for Davies, e.g. Dembele. I think it was Dembele's task to support Davies, but I feared before the match that he may not be able get there in time. Some of us thought playing Sissoko might shore up the right side and allow Dembele to occupy the left side, so he would not have to make his way over from CM but this would have left Wanyama outnumbered in CM.
With hindsight now, that would have been worth trying or as someone said us gifting them possession probably merited Winks being deployed.
Good passing and possession is not just bout getting the ball from A to B.
It is also about not putting the receiving player in deep brick or the team in a poor situation or creating a better offensive position.
I don't feel Lloris is as good with his feet as say Vorm, we often end up panicking playing from the back.
Nonsense, Lloris is at one of the best Clubs in the World.
DubaiSpur
Ian Walker
I don't think we'll quite get that, mate. For what it's worth, I think we'll finish on 74. 18 from the next 9, 6 from the last four (two wins, two losses - one win home, one away, and ditto for the losses). Considering late season fatigue and my earnest hope that we'll go for it in the cups enough to get us to a final, I'd say that's reasonable.
milo
Jack L. Jones
We've got the third highest possession stats in the league. If we are seeing players put under pressure from passes from Lloris, then it is not being reflected in the ball being turned over.
https://www.whoscored.com/Regions/2...amStatistics/England-Premier-League-2016-2017
ricky2tricky4city
Steffen Freund
We've got the third highest possession stats in the league. If we are seeing players put under pressure from passes from Lloris, then it is not being reflected in the ball being turned over.
https://www.whoscored.com/Regions/2...amStatistics/England-Premier-League-2016-2017
That's because in 90% of our games no-one is putting the press on.
We deal with it badly. Period.
Combine the press with coutinho, firminio, mane, llanna, sane, De bruyne, aguero, Silva, sterling, and as we witnessed against City and Pool you will have problems and rightly so against that calibre of player.
How we deal with it (especially against Pool who we don't match up well with) is a big issue for Poch. Perhaps we use the tactics some of the lesser teams have had success with, I know it will be a bit alien to us but at least it will give us a chance and it'll only be for 3 or 4 games a season.
Gazzasrightboot
Pascal Chimbonda
I do agree with you that we, as a team, need to work out how to deal with teams that press us aggressively but it's only been shown in two games that we are not adept at dealing with it. We obviously utilise a similar tactic to win our games, so we know that it is effective.
My thoughts on the game are as follows. First, it was probably our worst performance of the season. We looked disorganised and had no response to Liverpool's attacking play. We allowed them to play and in that first half hour I couldn't quite understand how we were not adapting to the warning signs that we could all see. Having said that, I really don't see how we can ever expect to go to Emirates Marketing Project and Liverpool away and win games. It will always be tough because they are good teams. Is it the impetuous youth that expected us to be able to play our normal game? I don't know, but with the benefit of hindsight we should have strangled the game and had 10 men behind the ball. The problem with that is that we don't really have the electric pace to make that tactic work for a win. Playing that tactic for a draw is risky.
The good thing is that these players will learn and will be hurting from that, and we have a run of winnable games coming up. They will all be tough, but we should expect to pick up the majority of the points. There's no point dwelling on this any longer than we have to. Next game is 3 points, same as the game we have just played. It's February, and there's still a lot of football to be played.
Daisuk
Nayim
We even struggled with Wycombe because of the way they pressured us. I can clearly see we're working on that part of our game by consistently trying to pass our way out from the back, but we struggle with it still. I'd like to see it as a work in progress. We'll get better at it with practise.
parklane1
Tony Galvin
Its a pity more fans can not see the truth in that. In reality some fans get themselves so wrapped up in stats they can not see the wood for trees. I now expect the stats groupies to start foaming at the mouth.
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ringo
Tim Sherwood
Fortunately we don't play many teams that approach the game like Liverpool with an overloaded high press. While Poch may not have figured out to combat Klopp's tactics, a lot of other teams have. Often because they lack the player quality to even contemplate going like for like. Liverpool's defence didn't miraculously improve by beating us. Chances are they will continue to struggle for the same reason they have been struggling. Whereas, hopefully, our defence will revert back to its usually competent performances when facing more "normal" football tactics.
So the loss doesn't bother or worry me unduly other than a few issues:
1. Poch should have anticipated how the game would pan out. i don't think he was sure whether to take them on head to head with 3 at the back, or be more defensive with 4-2-3-1 - and we ended up playing something in-between, that was an ineffective press, but open defensively.
2. He then failed to adjust during the game. Most of the fans on this board could see what was happening -it wasn't difficult - but Poch made changes too late on to make a difference. i wonder if he has an overhead view -like the televised view or solely relies on the pitchside perspective. It is a lot easier to see sitting in the the front row of the upper north stand than row 3 of lower west. Probably why rugby coaches sit where they do.
3. Other teams watching this game may decide to adopt similar tactics against us -fortunately not many teams either practice the system or have the players to carry it out. but if I was managing the opposition I would stick fast players up front and go for an overloaded high press fro the first 30/45 minutes an see if I can get an early goal.
4. It exposed our lack of pace up front.
5. What is wrong with the long ball - it is a useful occasional weapon - other teams, including Liverpool, don't mind using it when appropriate. if you try to pass it out every time under so much pressure it is both predictable and stupid.
So the loss doesn't bother or worry me unduly other than a few issues:
1. Poch should have anticipated how the game would pan out. i don't think he was sure whether to take them on head to head with 3 at the back, or be more defensive with 4-2-3-1 - and we ended up playing something in-between, that was an ineffective press, but open defensively.
2. He then failed to adjust during the game. Most of the fans on this board could see what was happening -it wasn't difficult - but Poch made changes too late on to make a difference. i wonder if he has an overhead view -like the televised view or solely relies on the pitchside perspective. It is a lot easier to see sitting in the the front row of the upper north stand than row 3 of lower west. Probably why rugby coaches sit where they do.
3. Other teams watching this game may decide to adopt similar tactics against us -fortunately not many teams either practice the system or have the players to carry it out. but if I was managing the opposition I would stick fast players up front and go for an overloaded high press fro the first 30/45 minutes an see if I can get an early goal.
4. It exposed our lack of pace up front.
5. What is wrong with the long ball - it is a useful occasional weapon - other teams, including Liverpool, don't mind using it when appropriate. if you try to pass it out every time under so much pressure it is both predictable and stupid.
We are Tottenham
Eidur Gudjohnsen
How good is he at clearing the ball down the middle ?
If there were some straight balls down the middle the forwards might have a chance of getting a header in!
We are Tottenham
Eidur Gudjohnsen
Actually Lorris was good yesterday.
Some sloppy defending. It's no good being calm in defence unless you are really quick at Anfield.
Their goals bad mistakes from our point of view.
Take for example when Dire brings the ball down
Calmly,they are in on him ,he's lost it ,he,s out of place anyway,it's a goal.
We must learn at that level. Look at old games at Anfiield. Liverpool always play the relentless game
And they are just waiting to get to us. They see us as their rivals , no doubt about that and we should treat them in the same way when we play them at home.
BTW ref was a toss err.
Some sloppy defending. It's no good being calm in defence unless you are really quick at Anfield.
Their goals bad mistakes from our point of view.
Take for example when Dire brings the ball down
Calmly,they are in on him ,he's lost it ,he,s out of place anyway,it's a goal.
We must learn at that level. Look at old games at Anfiield. Liverpool always play the relentless game
And they are just waiting to get to us. They see us as their rivals , no doubt about that and we should treat them in the same way when we play them at home.
BTW ref was a toss err.
BrainOfLevy
Michael Carrick
Interesting that the players coming about, particularly Lloris, saying it wasn't about tactics, more their technique and application. Poch also felt comfortable in laying into the players and this obviously means they had a plan to deal with Liverpool but didn't get close to implementing it. They all talked about knowing what to expect and not dealing with it.
Would love to know what the plan was. To be fair we went to Chelsea who were on a good run and played the game in their half. But maybe we can with Chelsea because they are more about control than rapid pace. With United, City and now Liverpool, we've offered too much space in behind and conceded easy goals. Mkhitarian, Mane, City breaking on us.
Why? What is the plan? Are we incapable of implementing a tactic designed to beat the press that we know is coming? Maybe Poch is angry because he trusted the players to implement something complex but potentially risky, and they failed to do it. I think it definitely shows we need to adapt. No two ways about it, playing a high line and failing to deal with the Liverpool press was directly responsible for conceding two easy goals.
Would love to know what the plan was. To be fair we went to Chelsea who were on a good run and played the game in their half. But maybe we can with Chelsea because they are more about control than rapid pace. With United, City and now Liverpool, we've offered too much space in behind and conceded easy goals. Mkhitarian, Mane, City breaking on us.
Why? What is the plan? Are we incapable of implementing a tactic designed to beat the press that we know is coming? Maybe Poch is angry because he trusted the players to implement something complex but potentially risky, and they failed to do it. I think it definitely shows we need to adapt. No two ways about it, playing a high line and failing to deal with the Liverpool press was directly responsible for conceding two easy goals.
wiziwig
Steed Malbranque
I love Poch but I have to agree with you, the tactics were wrong from the off and there were no correction to them in that nightmare of a first half. We were pushing up when we weren't in total control of the ball and leaving our full-back isolated one on one against probably the fastest powerhouse of a player in the PL.
Embarrassing performance from the players AND from Poch.
wiziwig
Steed Malbranque
Immediately after our game, I switched over to watch Osasuna v Real Madrid... Osasuna who are bottom of the league with just one win all season and a measly points tally of 10 points from 21 games, put up a dogged defensive/counter attacking performance. However, what caught my eye and constantly does, is the way the top teams play, regardless of who they're playing.
Most of RM's possession is two touch football, it just is, even when it doesn't have to be.
They think that way, they train that way, they play that way.
They leave the numerous touches of the ball to those in the team who can take care of it, to the likes of Ronaldo, Modric, Isco.
I think Poch has got to be playing Winks in the big games . I know Winks is young and inexperienced but as you say, he's different class to the others when put under pressure. He plays like how a top player, at a top club would be asked to play.
I hate sounding like a broken record but, to many of our players want to many touches on the ball before making the quick obvious pass. It's such an irritation for me, seeing our players dilly-dallying on the ball against lesser stand offish opponents, nevermind against the opponents that want to be all over us just as Liverpool did in this game.