Robspur12
Nick Barmby
Ancelloti would be a great choice. Wonder if his personal stock will fall if he fails to win la liga with that squad. Also if by some miracle we could get him would he stay long enough to create his legacy.
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Next Spurs Manager v.2
- Thread starter Gutter Boy
- Start date
Ancelloti would be a great choice. Wonder if his personal stock will fall if he fails to win la liga with that squad. Also if by some miracle we could get him would he stay long enough to create his legacy.
chancer
Gudni Bergsson
BE, I wrote a really long reply to all your points but it's so ridiculously long there's no point in posting it.
So instead I want to bore down on one of your points that I think is key to wrong-headed thinking here.
(Please Note: Everything I say below is on the understanding that I am talking about selecting a coach if we can't get LvG, FdB or Ancelotti. IMO it's less than 50/50 we will, so we need to think about, what then?)
1: What is change?
Is "change" bringing in yet another external appointment as we've been doing for 30 years with no success? Or is it appointing youth from within, which we've never done?
It's counter-intuitive, but in my strong opinion Sherwood is far more of a change candidate than Poch. It only appears the other way around.
Was AVB a change candidate? We hoped so, but it turns out no - it was same old same old. Would LvG or Ancelotti be change candidates? Yes, because we've never had a worldie before. Moyes? No, same old same old. FdB? Yes, because he'd be bringing the Ajax system with him. Appointing youth from within? Change. Taking a punt on Poch? Ballsy, admirable, and I'd be supportive in a vacuum...but change? No. No. Just another punt that might or might not work. Not change.
Changing coach ≠ change. Yes, it feels like change and it is literal change, but it is not "change" in the sense you mean it.
2: Our need for a coach is IMMEASURABLY less important than our need for the RIGHT coach
Even more importantly, people seem to be assuming that our need for both change & quality is matched in the market by someone who can deliver it. THAT NEED NOT BE THE CASE.
The best men for our job are LvG, FdB and Ancelotti (and maybe FSW depending on your taste). End of list. You can't be nearly on that list. You're either on it, or you're not. You can't suddenly skip down to choice #4 or #5 (let's say that's Poch) and say: "Oh, because we're picking this guy it axiomatically means we have our "change" messiah!" No, you're picking your #4 or #5 guy. You have a guy, but not the guy.
This summer's appointment need not be make or break. It's not an all-in. We don't have to invest our hearts and souls (and a 4 year contact, and £XXm) in some guy just because we can, and then try to pretend to ourselves that at long last he's our saviour. I sense that is what people are trying to convince themselves of when they big up the likes of Poch.
No. All wrong conceptually IMO. We might need to just take a deep breath this summer. If LvG, FdB or Ancelotti won't come, let's just wait for them, or similar. Let's not waste a 4 year contract on hope. If we're going to waste time on hope, better to waste a 1 year contract on the hope of Sherwood and then next summer do our real all-in with the right man.
So instead I want to bore down on one of your points that I think is key to wrong-headed thinking here.
(Please Note: Everything I say below is on the understanding that I am talking about selecting a coach if we can't get LvG, FdB or Ancelotti. IMO it's less than 50/50 we will, so we need to think about, what then?)
1: What is change?
Is "change" bringing in yet another external appointment as we've been doing for 30 years with no success? Or is it appointing youth from within, which we've never done?
It's counter-intuitive, but in my strong opinion Sherwood is far more of a change candidate than Poch. It only appears the other way around.
Was AVB a change candidate? We hoped so, but it turns out no - it was same old same old. Would LvG or Ancelotti be change candidates? Yes, because we've never had a worldie before. Moyes? No, same old same old. FdB? Yes, because he'd be bringing the Ajax system with him. Appointing youth from within? Change. Taking a punt on Poch? Ballsy, admirable, and I'd be supportive in a vacuum...but change? No. No. Just another punt that might or might not work. Not change.
Changing coach ≠ change. Yes, it feels like change and it is literal change, but it is not "change" in the sense you mean it.
2: Our need for a coach is IMMEASURABLY less important than our need for the RIGHT coach
Even more importantly, people seem to be assuming that our need for both change & quality is matched in the market by someone who can deliver it. THAT NEED NOT BE THE CASE.
The best men for our job are LvG, FdB and Ancelotti (and maybe FSW depending on your taste). End of list. You can't be nearly on that list. You're either on it, or you're not. You can't suddenly skip down to choice #4 or #5 (let's say that's Poch) and say: "Oh, because we're picking this guy it axiomatically means we have our "change" messiah!" No, you're picking your #4 or #5 guy. You have a guy, but not the guy.
This summer's appointment need not be make or break. It's not an all-in. We don't have to invest our hearts and souls (and a 4 year contact, and £XXm) in some guy just because we can, and then try to pretend to ourselves that at long last he's our saviour. I sense that is what people are trying to convince themselves of when they big up the likes of Poch.
No. All wrong conceptually IMO. We might need to just take a deep breath this summer. If LvG, FdB or Ancelotti won't come, let's just wait for them, or similar. Let's not waste a 4 year contract on hope. If we're going to waste time on hope, better to waste a 1 year contract on the hope of Sherwood and then next summer do our real all-in with the right man.
Definitely won't see his stock fall if he manages to win them their 10th European Cup. However, if the reverse happens and they win La Liga but fail to win the CL then he could still be sacked as the club consider the European Cup a greater prize.
Lemonade Money
Les Medley
At one point in last nights CL game, there was a shot of him on the bench and it looked like there was a 2 inch difference in height between eyebrows.
milo
Jack L. Jones
Hootnow
Jermaine Jenas
Oh dear Daniel, don't do it! Don't.
Please let this be totally untrue.
SpurMeUp
Les Howe
It would be suicidal and nothing learnt from hiring AVB after his chelsea fiasco. I can not see the club hiring Moyes under any circumstances. Sherwood looks to be a much better bet, with probably a higher points per game figure as well. I would 100% prefer Sherwood if Moyes was the only other option - which of course he is not.
It seems that FDB is currently the most likely candidate to be in charge of Spurs next season. But things change rapidly, and who knows....so long as its not Moyes at the helm.
Rorschach
Sonny Walters
FDB would be fairly close to the top of my list and I wouldn't be disappointed with that appointment if it were to happen. He's a risk like everyone else but the one thing that draws me to this appointment is the Ajax connection and their style of play. I would take my chances with that any day over the footie that Moyes teams serve up.
braineclipse
Steve Sedgley
I'm sure for almost any appointment (possibly bar LvG) someone could make a comparison to a failed manager we once appointed and say that we need to look elsewhere. As has been done here btw.
I think we have to accept that categories are just categories and making decisions based on which category previous managers loosely fit into isn't a great idea.
Agreed. With their financial power they will bounce back. We can only hope that it's a slow bounce...
For me it would be close between LvG and Ancelotti, but yeah. He would be up there. Shame we have no chance.
Nigeyman
Chris Armstrong
amen to that!!
If they fail again next season, after a summer where they're probably going to spend a fair bit, under yet another manager, they might be heading towards Liverpool post-FSW.
braineclipse
Steve Sedgley
I applaud your self discipline in seeing that the conversation wasn't going in a useful direction and not posting a long post.
1. I think you argue the point that changing coach ≠ change very well. And from a hypothetical viewpoint I couldn't disagree. If AVB had been sacked this summer/now instead and out of all the options Levy choice Sherwood I would say your post would be excellent reasoning for it. If we have or had an internal option that we really rated that highly, I would say go for it.
But that's not what's happened. Sherwood got the job because we couldn't get a deal with any preferred manager. He finds himself where he is now because LvG wouldn't sign, most likely FdB also turned us down (not as clear cut), and quite possibly because Levy thought that waiting for LvG was better than hiring someone further down the list like you argue in your second point.
Does that mean we should keep Sherwood, if LvG then doesn't become available? I don't see it.
2. First off I've had to argue the pro-FdB side in this thread. I don't think he belongs in the same echelon as LvG and Ancelotti. I get that you rate him personally, but even so I think you have to admit that on the evidence, in terms of how proven they are, he's in a different category.
LvG is heading into his last job now by his own words (or intention I read into them, can't remember). I don't think there's any point in waiting for him past this summer.
So how long do we wait for a top class manager to come around? I say not very. Let's instead take a chance on someone that's potentially great and see if it works out in the meanwhile. Let's not give a year to someone even further down the list than people we can actually get just because we can't get our top targets.
And then, if against all odds Ancelotti or Klopp becomes available for us, against all odds then sack the guy in charge now. Unfair or not. I've argued the same in the past when hypotheticals have been brought up with Mourinho, Klopp and iirc some other names.
I appreciate the cutting of what is conversation spinning out of control. But I would still like an answer on Sherwood and other clubs. Do you think for example Everton or Southampton should consider him amongst their top targets this summer if they lose their managers?
braineclipse
Steve Sedgley
Financially it's all relative to the competition though.
Liverpool post-FSW were still at a higher level than us, even when we had CL football and they didn't we were pretty close iirc.
And United is a much bigger money generating machine, with a bigger stadium as well. It would take longer, unless their debt spirals out of control, but with their turnover I doubt it.
Negative spiral!!
Seedy Ron
Jimmy Neighbour
Bill's Manager Long List said:
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I think I agree though, and I fooking loath Sherwood.
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I think I agree though, and I fooking loath Sherwood.
i have no strong feelings on Sherwood one way or the other - but at least he has potential that i cold pin my hopes on if he got the job - with Moyes id know what to expect, football that i don't like and an awful record against good teams/in big matches. id rather fall flat on face trying to succeed than amble by just treading water, which is how id view a Moyes appointment.