Mauricio Pochettino - Sacked

[nayenezgani]

You make my heart warm Steff.
With such momentum building and the future looking so bright, if we were to lose Poch to United or Chelsea, I think I'd have to give football away forever.

 

[braineclipse]

been saying it folks, he is going nowhere unless he were to get fudgeed on promises, and that won't happen either.

Hope you're right Steff!

Either way I'd much rather have Manchester United desperate for our head coach than QPR, Zenit St. Petersburg or Aston Villa thinking that if our head coach becomes available perhaps they'll take a chance on him...

Pochettino is a genious.

 

[bennysleftfoot]

agree with everyone re pochs emotions at the final whistle, but for me what was more telling was the celebration of eriksens winner. he let out a massive roar of delight, arms wide, fists pumping. I don't think I've seen him celebrate a goal like that before.
he's one of us.
and he believes.

 

[Gutter Boy]

agree with everyone re pochs emotions at the final whistle, but for me what was more telling was the celebration of eriksens winner. he let out a massive roar of delight, arms wide, fists pumping. I don't think I've seen him celebrate a goal like that before.
he's one of us.
and he believes.

It was a bit like Jol's bear growl at Wier moment. A watershed in terms of establishing a bond.

 

[thfcsteff]

It was a bit like Jol's bear growl at Wier moment. A watershed in terms of establishing a bond.

One major difference mate. Poch doesn't have an agent in every few months pushing for more money/scouting the job market for potential upgrades when a few games have gone well. Sorry, BMJ was a great character and left us with some decent memories, but this man, Poch, is different class. I absolutely expect him to want his worth at the end of the season, but I also suspect he and Levy will have it sorted very very fast. Will be an extension anyhow.

 

[glorygloryeze]

As Gang Starr said, "The Rep Growz Bigga"

 

[spasm]

eriksen...clearly not a hugger...

 

[Robspur12]

One major difference mate. Poch doesn't have an agent in every few months pushing for more money/scouting the job market for potential upgrades when a few games have gone well. Sorry, BMJ was a great character and left us with some decent memories, but this man, Poch, is different class. I absolutely expect him to want his worth at the end of the season, but I also suspect he and Levy will have it sorted very very fast. Will be an extension anyhow.

I love Poch too Steff, but I am realistic enough to realise that he is not super human. If Jol was interested in other jobs during his tenure at Spurs, I'm not going to hold that against him, after all he was only an after thought for the main job in the first place and in the end the club showed him no loyalty. Poch may not be actively seeking out another job and I don't think he will leave now, but what happened at Southampton showed he will move if it suits him. I'm sure if another club came in a tripled his Spurs wages he would go. Why wouldn't he? He knows if things go south the club would get rid of him and many of the fans would turn against him because we are fickle (well not you anyway mate). I think we have to be careful not to build up Poch into something he isn't we will only be disappointed.

 

[alekaras]

I love Poch too Steff, but I am realistic enough to realise that he is not super human. If Jol was interested in other jobs during his tenure at Spurs, I'm not going to hold that against him, after all he was only an after thought for the main job in the first place and in the end the club showed him no loyalty. Poch may not be actively seeking out another job and I don't think he will leave now, but what happened at Southampton showed he will move if it suits him. I'm sure if another club came in a tripled his Spurs wages he would go. Why wouldn't he? He knows if things go south the club would get rid of him and many of the fans would turn against him because we are fickle (well not you anyway mate). I think we have to be careful not to build up Poch into something he isn't we will only be disappointed.

But Poch didn't leave Soton because another club came in for him. He left because Cortese left and he had made it clear he would more than 6 months before he actually left. As for tripling his wages, we can do that too without batting an eyelash, so it will be other things that would make him leave. And right now, I don't see too many clubs offering those other things.

 

[metalgear]

But Poch didn't leave Soton because another club came in for him. He left because Cortese left and he had made it clear he would more than 6 months before he actually left. As for tripling his wages, we can do that too without batting an eyelash, so it will be other things that would make him leave. And right now, I don't see too many clubs offering those other things.

yeah this. i think poch is a stickler for his work environment. i don't think he is after top money - yet - until it becomes an indicator of his worth (and he hasn't won anything yet).

for me the biggest risk is disagreements with the committee - and the crazy thingis that we don't know for sure how it works, who makes the final call, and how accountability is meted out for transfers, as well as youth development.

anyhow the test for committees start when things go bad....not when things are going swimmingly. I can think of two scenarios:
(a) a sustained string of bad results; and (
b) a shift in expectations in the business model and expectations e.g. expected returns from higher spending on players.

then we will know if the committe works. i believe that this is levy's football management philosphy - a system where key man risk is managed by having a system in place, where the working of the total system is more important than any single contributor to it.

 

[thfcsteff]

I love Poch too Steff, but I am realistic enough to realise that he is not super human. If Jol was interested in other jobs during his tenure at Spurs, I'm not going to hold that against him, after all he was only an after thought for the main job in the first place and in the end the club showed him no loyalty. Poch may not be actively seeking out another job and I don't think he will leave now, but what happened at Southampton showed he will move if it suits him. I'm sure if another club came in a tripled his Spurs wages he would go. Why wouldn't he? He knows if things go south the club would get rid of him and many of the fans would turn against him because we are fickle (well not you anyway mate). I think we have to be careful not to build up Poch into something he isn't we will only be disappointed.

Mate,

In the spirit of discussion - I think it is fair to say that Arnesen and Jol had a master plan which involved seeing Santini get the chop. Let's face it, those were weird times, but we didn't question them because Arnesen had a silver tongue and BMJ a massive character. BMJ gave us a lot of identity back, but there are some darker stories of frankly Machiavellian behavior which do not warrant speaking about here (perhaps one day somewhere, but not here) and I started to sour on him after several of these 'things' came to (somewhat dim, secluded) light.

I have absolutely no problem whatsoever building Poch up. In fact, what he has done in 20 months has stripped what any manager has done in the last 20 years! He is the first one I have seen who has a plan and process that does not involve various friendly agents for a start, he has shown absolute transparency at the club with regards to what he says and does, he was regenerated the core of our playing staff to one which is predominantly young, he has gelled this squad into a unit, he has ensured that we really only need one, 'maybe' two new signings in the summer and if this sounds like I think he is super-human, then perhaps I do...in comparison with most modern managers. Or professionals in the game.

He is already getting paid close to 2 million a year, he has total freedom at Spurs to do what he needs to do, he has total freedom in the structure of the staff...I believe he will get a very nice salary bump in the summer, but I believe his primary motivation is people keeping their word and letting him do it his way. He is the rarest of birds, a manager unmotivated simply by money so far as I can see. And to that end, I think he will absolutely be here through the new stadium's first year or so...one day I see him in Spain or at Bayern...

 

[thfcsteff]

yeah this. i think poch is a stickler for his work environment. i don't think he is after top money - yet - until it becomes an indicator of his worth (and he hasn't won anything yet).

for me the biggest risk is disagreements with the committee - and the crazy thingis that we don't know for sure how it works, who makes the final call, and how accountability is meted out for transfers, as well as youth development.

anyhow the test for committees start when things go bad....not when things are going swimmingly. I can think of two scenarios:
(a) a sustained string of bad results; and (
b) a shift in expectations in the business model and expectations e.g. expected returns from higher spending on players.

then we will know if the committe works. i believe that this is levy's football management philosphy - a system where key man risk is managed by having a system in place, where the working of the total system is more important than any single contributor to it.

He has total control at this point over final decisions. No-one gets signed unless he says so.Him and Levy are really so much on the same page, it is great. The whole promotion of McDermott is part of Poch's model. I cannot overstate how much healthier our club is than it has been in many years...it is a thing of beauty, and one day, we will all appreciate just how much work he put into it...

 

[Gazzasrightboot]

Mate,

In the spirit of discussion - I think it is fair to say that Arnesen and Jol had a master plan which involved seeing Santini get the chop. Let's face it, those were weird times, but we didn't question them because Arnesen had a silver tongue and BMJ a massive character. BMJ gave us a lot of identity back, but there are some darker stories of frankly Machiavellian behavior which do not warrant speaking about here (perhaps one day somewhere, but not here) and I started to sour on him after several of these 'things' came to (somewhat dim, secluded) light.

I have absolutely no problem whatsoever building Poch up. In fact, what he has done in 20 months has stripped what any manager has done in the last 20 years! He is the first one I have seen who has a plan and process that does not involve various friendly agents for a start, he has shown absolute transparency at the club with regards to what he says and does, he was regenerated the core of our playing staff to one which is predominantly young, he has gelled this squad into a unit, he has ensured that we really only need one, 'maybe' two new signings in the summer and if this sounds like I think he is super-human, then perhaps I do...in comparison with most modern managers. Or professionals in the game.

He is already getting paid close to 2 million a year, he has total freedom at Spurs to do what he needs to do, he has total freedom in the structure of the staff...I believe he will get a very nice salary bump in the summer, but I believe his primary motivation is people keeping their word and letting him do it his way. He is the rarest of birds, a manager unmotivated simply by money so far as I can see. And to that end, I think he will absolutely be here through the new stadium's first year or so...one day I see him in Spain or at Bayern...

Couldn't agree with you more on Poch (I don't know about these stories about BMJ!). There is not a manager in the modern game that has managed to do what he has done. His job has not finished, but he has a net transfer surplus, got rid of trouble makers without alienating other players and maintaining a good team spirit (although it does pain me to see Lennon in an Everton shirt) and, most importantly, he acts and behaves in a way that is completely likeable and dare I say with a bit of swagger.

Not once has he criticised the fans. Not once has he complained about unluckiness. Not once has he complained to the media about needing one or two more players. He acts with dignity and is instilling these same traits in our young players.

 

[thfcsteff]

Couldn't agree with you more on Poch (I don't know about these stories about BMJ!). There is not a manager in the modern game that has managed to do what he has done. His job has not finished, but he has a net transfer surplus, got rid of trouble makers without alienating other players and maintaining a good team spirit (although it does pain me to see Lennon in an Everton shirt) and, most importantly, he acts and behaves in a way that is completely likeable and dare I say with a bit of swagger.

Not once has he criticised the fans. Not once has he complained about unluckiness. Not once has he complained to the media about needing one or two more players. He acts with dignity and is instilling these same traits in our young players.

Interesting reported back-story to that...he really wanted to give Lennon every chance to prove he wanted 'in' on this. He saw him as a player who was up to being part of the squad in the front three role behind Kane. I think Lennon cooked his goose somewhere in the whole Ade/Kaboul/Capoue thing, and I think his attitude simply didn't fit what Poch thought it should be. Let's just say socially he wasn't on the same page either from what I understand. A shame but good that he did it.

 

[tynesidespur]

Couldn't agree with you more on Poch (I don't know about these stories about BMJ!). There is not a manager in the modern game that has managed to do what he has done. His job has not finished, but he has a net transfer surplus, got rid of trouble makers without alienating other players and maintaining a good team spirit (although it does pain me to see Lennon in an Everton shirt) and, most importantly, he acts and behaves in a way that is completely likeable and dare I say with a bit of swagger.

Not once has he criticised the fans. Not once has he complained about unluckiness. Not once has he complained to the media about needing one or two more players. He acts with dignity and is instilling these same traits in our young players.

He also has the players buying into this attitude. You just knew there would be no selfies in the dressing room at City. Respect for our opponents and total focus on the next game. I think it shows mentally we are switched on and it could well be the undoing of the other lot up the road. All down to Poch IMO.

 

[Millsy_Yiddo]

One of the things I've been very much impressed by Poch is something that also used to really impress me about Fergie. Fergie used to change the united team about, slot players in and out yet never seemed to see a drop in performance. If you look at some of the squad players he had over the years like John O'shea, Wes Brown, Fletcher he really should have, but all those players performed out of their skin for United when called upon.

Similar times at Spurs currently. Jan got injured and I thought, that's it, season done yet Wimmer steps in and it's like he was always there. Full backs seem to be interchangeable too. Obviously there are certain key players that we might struggle without (as there were at United too) but the flexibility he's worked into the squad with minimal drop in performance is something I've been really impressed with.

 

[braineclipse]

Interesting reported back-story to that...he really wanted to give Lennon every chance to prove he wanted 'in' on this. He saw him as a player who was up to being part of the squad in the front three role behind Kane. I think Lennon cooked his goose somewhere in the whole Ade/Kaboul/Capoue thing, and I think his attitude simply didn't fit what Poch thought it should be. Let's just say socially he wasn't on the same page either from what I understand. A shame but good that he did it.

I used to really like Lennon. But I also started thinking quite a while back that our collection of experienced players that had been at the club for a while were more part of the problem than part of the solution.

Playing style I think he would have been a good fit as you say. But in terms of drive, determination, ambition etc I'm not so sure. Not happy to see him go, but quite happy to see him replaced if that makes sense.

 

[parklane1]

Interesting reported back-story to that...he really wanted to give Lennon every chance to prove he wanted 'in' on this. He saw him as a player who was up to being part of the squad in the front three role behind Kane. I think Lennon cooked his goose somewhere in the whole Ade/Kaboul/Capoue thing, and I think his attitude simply didn't fit what Poch thought it should be. Let's just say socially he wasn't on the same page either from what I understand. A shame but good that he did it.

Interesting, I always loved Lennon and for me we were always a better team when he was in it and was sorry to see him go, I always thought he had the ability to be a important player in the three behind Kane.

However if there were a few problems off the pitch then Poch did the right thing in allowing him to move, it obvious to me that our squad is tighter then for a long time and getting rid of players who may have been a problem was a good move.

But I will always look back at the days seeing Lennon destroy FB's with fond memories.

 

[Raziel]

Interesting, I always loved Lennon and for me we were always a better team when he was in it and was sorry to see him go, I always thought he had the ability to be a important player in the three behind Kane.

However if there were a few problems off the pitch then Poch did the right thing in allowing him to move, it obvious to me that our squad is tighter then for a long time and getting rid of players who may have been a problem was a good move.

But I will always look back at the days seeing Lennon destroy FB's with fond memories.

Same view point, I spoke with someone who we would all trust and their view was Lennon got "comfortable". Glad to see him playing better these days, even if not in our colours.

Back to Poch, its mentality above all else, and that's where until he has proven success (cups/titles) he may have a ceiling in terms of size of club where he can just walk in and do a clear out.

 

[metalgear]

He has total control at this point over final decisions. No-one gets signed unless he says so.Him and Levy are really so much on the same page, it is great. The whole promotion of McDermott is part of Poch's model. I cannot overstate how much healthier our club is than it has been in many years...it is a thing of beauty, and one day, we will all appreciate just how much work he put into it...

i've been in enough committees to know that you don't need control over the final decision to be able to scuttle the whole discussion/approval process.
just saying that it all works well for now, but its a fragile thing - committees...and the best time to evaluate its effectiveness is when times are bad, not when times are good.