Mauricio Pochettino - Sacked

[shaney]

Picking Ade again this weekend will be the final nail in the coffin.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Picking Ade again this weekend will be the final nail in the coffin.

Even if Ade scores 2 and assists a further 2 in a 4-1 win? 8-[

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

IMO - it's likely that all three of our captains will be at other clubs next season. Lloris will be gone ( hopefully not ) due to our failure to qualify for the CL and I think Kaboul and Ade, due to the running down of their contracts and both will be looking for bigger pay days elsewhere .

I think we have to accept that both Kaboul and Adebayor will be near ever presents in the PL this season so long as their form does not deteriorate any further. For Poch , this season is about getting the squad to buy into his ways. To do this he needs calmness in the dressing room and he needs to avoid any potential confrontations with players that may prove difficult . I think it's next season where Poch will really stamp his authority on the squad, by making a couple of his own signings and also choosing his captains.

There will be times when Poch will piiss us off with some of his team selections, but I think its best we show patience with the man and try to understand the difficulties he has in front of him. In the long term I trust him to deliver.

Although i agree with GB's post above this one, i think you make an interesting point about the big characters and who Poch allies up with. Both Ade and Kaboul have been way below par in numerous games BUT maybe their voices are loud enough in the dressing room and/or training ground for Poch to keep them onside as he gets HIS feet under the table and tries ti instill his ideas/philosophies on an otherwise leaderless squad.

It's especially tricky with Ade, as soon as he think he been wronged (and lets face it, it could be absolutely anything that may upset him, not just football) he's becomes zero use to the group.(and potentially disruptive). Having the awareness that you're not playing well and someone else just might be and so deserves a chance and understanding this, i would like to think is a logical thought process. But hey i'm not Ade.

 

[Modric THFC]

The issue is Lloris, Naughton, Kaboul, Rose, Capoue, Mason, Lamela, Eriksen, Chadli, Adebayor start every league have when fit.
Naughton and Mason missed a few due to injuries. Lamela missed one wgen we webt 442. The only other time he dropped any of them was tiredness after the international break.

These players are starting to realise they are undroppable. Others I'm sure are ****ed off

 

[Jordinho]

Dier played 4 games at right back when it was blindingly obvious Naughton (may have been injured for some, but not all) would have been a better choice. Sanity prevailed in the end. Eventually it will happen to the big name players as well.

 

[metalgear]

These players are starting to realise they are undroppable. Others I'm sure are ****ed off

of course there is the other view that there is a team for cups and another for league games.

i hope that poch is taking his time not worrying about the results too much, but rather is focused on giving all the players a fair chance when we have games aplenty. though i do not wish for it, getting knocked out of the cups may accelerate poch assembling a proper regular starting eleven, not diluted across two teams.

interestingly we do look much better in the cup than in the league, so if there's any consolidation, there's still plenty of work to integrate the players to and run the course of the season.

 

[Eriktheviking]

of course there is the other view that there is a team for cups and another for league games.

i hope that poch is taking his time not worrying about the results too much, but rather is focused on giving all the players a fair chance when we have games aplenty. though i do not wish for it, getting knocked out of the cups may accelerate poch assembling a proper regular starting eleven, not diluted across two teams.

interestingly we do look much better in the cup than in the league, so if there's any consolidation, there's still plenty of work to integrate the players to and run the course of the season.

But of the teams we have played in the cups, only Besiktas are at our level in terms of quality of players.

 

[Yiddo]

I am a little worried of how he said he was happy with the performance and that we played well after our last 2 games

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

I am a little worried of how he said he was happy with the performance and that we played well after our last 2 games

To be fair, we were decent in the first half, controlled the game completely. I suppose it is a bigger worry the complete change in the second half...unrecognisable

it's rather funny how teams give us all the respect in the world, then attack us, throw the ball forward a couple of times, and all sudden think 'wtf....this lot are sh*t' lets go for it'

 

[NWND]

I am a little worried of how he said he was happy with the performance and that we played well after our last 2 games

Yeah but publically what else is a manager going to say. Whenever a manager wins, he says it was a good performance. I'm pretty sure he didn't come out of that game thinking there was nothing to work on in training.

I think a big problem at the moment is the fitness levels required of Poch's style. Clearly we're not even half-way there yet. The all-out pressing lasts about 25-30 minutes before our players are ****ting sweat. The contrast between some of our first half performances and our 2nd half performances this season is there for all to see.

I also note that a lot of the players that appear undroppable week on week are the players that may well be getting there fitness-wise.

I think probably Poch feels the first few months of the season or maybe the entire first season is more about getting as many of the squad up to the fitness levels required to play his style, possibly even BEFORE he feels he can make a judgement call on who is even suited for his system or not.

At this moment in time, i don't see one player who is fit enough to effectively play the way Poch wants for 90 minutes (when compared to his Southampton team)

 

[Raziel]

Honestly if our players aren't fit at this stage (especially the lot that had a preseason), its a bad reflection on Poch, you can't have a style of play that requires fitness and not have a methodology to get the players there pretty quickly.

I think Poch is lost, he's not sure he has the players for is style, he hasn't quite decided to completely use it or use another style that better suits the resources we have, and we are somewhere in the middle, and its not effective.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Honestly if our players aren't fit at this stage (especially the lot that had a preseason), its a bad reflection on Poch, you can't have a style of play that requires fitness and not have a methodology to get the players there pretty quickly.

I think Poch is lost, he's not sure he has the players for is style, he hasn't quite decided to completely use it or use another style that better suits the resources we have, and we are somewhere in the middle, and its not effective.

It took 9 months for Soton to really nail his system. We're about 4 months in (less for the WC players).

 

[Cotswold]

I am increasingly of the view that at Soton he had a younger group of players who were willing and able to play the system he wanted and that, together with a lack of pressure and expectation on the team meant they were able to achieve a position in the league as 'best of the rest'. However, despite selling their best players and bringing in a new manager, Soton are actually looking better rather than worse.
Meanwhile at the Lane, this squad of players don't look capable of playing this pressing system - our back four look complacent at best and our strikers (specifically Soldado and Adebayor) couldn't hit the proverbial cow's ****. I now a win is a win etc etc, but with the exception of a couple of matches, the wins we have had have been pretty fortunate. I am officially concerned.

 

[Gutter Boy]

I am increasingly of the view that at Soton he had a younger group of players who were willing

People can't have it both ways. We either don't have enough leaders, or we have too many.

Personally I think the balance is about right. We are mostly a squad of young players who can be moulded. While our senior players tend to be very good pros (Lloris, Kaboul, Soldado, Fazio, Friedel).

Only Ade, Dembele, Verts and Lennon I could imagine potentially being a bit too independently-minded to cause Poch problems.

In general though the ketchup and lager boys are long gone.

 

[DTA]

It took 9 months for Soton to really nail his system. We're about 4 months in (less for the WC players).

That's an untruth they were in consistent in his first season, but he implemented his style quite quickly. I remember a game at old Trafford where Saf said they were the best team he faced.

 

[braineclipse]

It's not surprising that our pressing game is inconsistent. The players we have and the relatively short amount of time Poch has had and the problems AVB had with a high pressing game with some of the same players considered it's no shock.

What's more concerning is how we react to our pressing game being inconsistent. It's not a necessity to press high throughout a game, very few teams manage that. Barca at their best, as a result of having 65%+ possession managed to press high for the remaining 30-35% of the game most of the time. But even teams like Dortmund and Atletico Madrid step it back at times.

The problem, for me at least, is that when the pressing isn't there the team doesn't react in the right way. For me the right reaction to us being unable to press high up the pitch successfully is to withdraw more without the ball with just about every single player. Instead individual midfielders and forwards still push up, leaving fairly easy gaps to exploit whereas other midfielders (and defenders) are standing off leaving gaps for opponents to turn and pick passes to opposing forwards with space to run into. It's just too easy to find space. If the space is there to pick a pass we have to retreat to where there's little space for forwards to run into. Corollary to that we can only leave space for forwards to run into if there's good pressure on the man on the ball.

People can't have it both ways. We either don't have enough leaders, or we have too many.

Personally I think the balance is about right. We are mostly a squad of young players who can be moulded. While our senior players tend to be very good pros (Lloris, Kaboul, Soldado, Fazio, Friedel).

Only Ade, Dembele, Verts and Lennon I could imagine potentially being a bit too independently-minded to cause Poch problems.

In general though the ketchup and lager boys are long gone.

It's not just about age though. I really don't think a 24 year old Ade was any more suited to the style Poch played at Southampton than the current Ade is. Similarly I could easily imagine Eriksen, Lamela and Kane develop into players much more suited to high pressing given time to adapt and adjust.

The thing is though, these things can take a bit of time. Right now it seems that Poch just doesn't trust us to press high up the pitch with any kind of consistency and I'm guessing he has his reasons. I hope he's backed (in terms of transfers, ****ing off current players etc) until he has a chance to put out a team he trusts to play a similar style to his Southampton Bielsa inspired style.

Meanwhile our attacking is looking quite good, despite the lack of good turnovers I expect a better high pressing system could/should bring.

 

[braineclipse]

That's an untruth they were in consistent in his first season, but he implemented his style quite quickly. I remember a game at old Trafford where Saf said they were the best team he faced.

For me at least, "really nailing a system" means performing consistently in that system...

 

[Nigeyman]

Going to try and stay positive. going to the match on Sunday, I don't get to many due to financial and work related issues.....anyway will cheer the team on and hope for a decent result and a decent performance.

I think we are going to suffer for a bit until Poch can determine which players he will keep and which ones he wants to unload...I know I need to be patient and that it is not fair to judge him thus far....

I am concerned with some of the decisions though....Kaboul as captain....Kaboul and Ade being seemingly untouchable after poor performances, bizarre subs and sticking with inverted wingers....or at least switching things us to stop us looking so predictable. None of our forward players really want to pressurise defenders therefore I believe most of our squad is unsuitable for the poch way of doing things....basically in a year and a half....if Poch is still here I think our squad will look totally different.

defensively I would like some improvement in the short term... we look uber vulnerable at the moment...Dier, Rose, Davies, Walker, Yedlin will be our future so we need to get some work into them...

I think we will have a massive summer exodus and player recruitment with us trying to break even....I reckon:

Hugo, Verts, Vlad, Kaboul, Dembele, Aunty Pauline, Lennon, Eriksen (dont think poch rates him) Ade & Bobby will be sold......would not suprise me if Chadli goes to.

I think in a years time we will have those defenders mentioned.....Mason will be here along with Kane....and the rest will be all shiny and new....I see poch as being unhappy at the moment feeling stuck with certain players with internal politics going on....its as if he's f'd off this season and knows he will need to ride it out....try and have a half decent season without upsetting the applecart to much.

I think maybe part of the problem is that some of the players know deep down poch doesnt want to have them around in the future and perhaps that inner knowledge is a reason for individual and collective poor displays.

 

[indianspur]

That's an untruth they were in consistent in his first season, but he implemented his style quite quickly. I remember a game at old Trafford where Saf said they were the best team he faced.

That was his first game as manager iirc, if not one of the first 5

Interesting article here about Southampton and in it they talk to head of player recruitment and the first thing they look for in a player is athleticism and movement

http://www.theguardian.com/football...eaping-rewards-philosophy-new-training-ground

 

[Gutter Boy]

Going to try and stay positive. going to the match on Sunday, I don't get to many due to financial and work related issues.....anyway will cheer the team on and hope for a decent result and a decent performance.

I think we are going to suffer for a bit until Poch can determine which players he will keep and which ones he wants to unload...I know I need to be patient and that it is not fair to judge him thus far....

I am concerned with some of the decisions though....Kaboul as captain....Kaboul and Ade being seemingly untouchable after poor performances, bizarre subs and sticking with inverted wingers....or at least switching things us to stop us looking so predictable. None of our forward players really want to pressurise defenders therefore I believe most of our squad is unsuitable for the poch way of doing things....basically in a year and a half....if Poch is still here I think our squad will look totally different.

defensively I would like some improvement in the short term... we look uber vulnerable at the moment...Dier, Rose, Davies, Walker, Yedlin will be our future so we need to get some work into them...

I think we will have a massive summer exodus and player recruitment with us trying to break even....I reckon:

Hugo, Verts, Vlad, Kaboul, Dembele, Aunty Pauline, Lennon, Eriksen (dont think poch rates him) Ade & Bobby will be sold......would not suprise me if Chadli goes to.

I think in a years time we will have those defenders mentioned.....Mason will be here along with Kane....and the rest will be all shiny and new....I see poch as being unhappy at the moment feeling stuck with certain players with internal politics going on....its as if he's f'd off this season and knows he will need to ride it out....try and have a half decent season without upsetting the applecart to much.

I think maybe part of the problem is that some of the players know deep down poch doesnt want to have them around in the future and perhaps that inner knowledge is a reason for individual and collective poor displays.

Poch says he only likes a maximum of 3 transfers a year. He says any more is too disruptive.

IMO it would be a pretty big admission of incompetence if you had to shift out 2/3 of your senior players.

Poch was brought in to make this squad perform, not to overhaul it once again (remembering Walker is the only major player left from pre-2012).