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Mauricio Pochettino - Sacked

milo said:
I think that it would be easier to credit Levy for having a strategy in the type of manager we hire, if we didn't tend to lurch between motivators and tacticians.
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I think Levy has a clear strategy with Poch, because he's learned from the mistakes of every other manager he hired. But in terms of not just getting Poch, but how he runs the club with him in place, it is very much strategic. It is recognising out strengths, our place in the landscape, and its hiring someone to accentuate them.

As the poster above says, he got with Poch what he thought he would get with AVB. A guy to put a system in place and bring through the youth. AVB had the system part down but sadly didn't trust the youth. Wrong hire. No strategy.
 
Nigeyman said:
true, same with Bill Nich...but as mentioned above they did not have to face the scrutinies of the modern world...quick question...do you think Fergie would have held onto his job in those early struggling years at Utd if he had to face todays modern media?? he was obviously under pressure at the time but nowhere near the modern pressure of today...look at L.V.G! would he have survived??
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No, I doubt it. Too much instant gratification required nowadays - and I am as guilty of it as many.

I would like to give Poch some time though to see where he can take us. Unlike AVB, I think he has already shown that he deserves it.
 
BrainOfLevy said:
I think Levy has a clear strategy with Poch, because he's learned from the mistakes of every other manager he hired. But in terms of not just getting Poch, but how he runs the club with him in place, it is very much strategic. It is recognising out strengths, our place in the landscape, and its hiring someone to accentuate them.

As the poster above says, he got with Poch what he thought he would get with AVB. A guy to put a system in place and bring through the youth. AVB had the system part down but sadly didn't trust the youth. Wrong hire. No strategy.
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It is easy to say that when things are going well.

I think that Levy has got a lot of things right but his choice of managers has been scatter gun at best and does not show a clear strategy being followed. The knock on effect from not having a clear strategy of the type of manager he wants running the club has been the high turnover of players that we have seen during his tenure. Hopefully, he has got it right now and whether that is luck or judgement is immaterial for the moment.

I am just hesitant when people start talking about manager's instilling their philosophy on a club or building a legacy. Most managers are not in a job long enough to do either and even the ones who stay in a job for longer than three years rarely leave much of a legacy.

I think that Poch is an infinitely better manager than AVB and has a temperament far better suited to the position but I remember people starting talking like this at the end of AVB's first season and look how quickly that fell apart. I am not saying that this will happen but (hypothetically) if we finished fourth, got knocked out in qualifying for the Champions League and then had a bad start to next season, a lot of people would forget about the progress we have made this season and the same old brick about proper wingers, 4-4-2 and practising set pieces would come up again.
 
milo said:
It is easy to say that when things are going well.

I think that Levy has got a lot of things right but his choice of managers has been scatter gun at best and does not show a clear strategy being followed. The knock on effect from not having a clear strategy of the type of manager he wants running the club has been the high turnover of players that we have seen during his tenure. Hopefully, he has got it right now and whether that is luck or judgement is immaterial for the moment.

I am just hesitant when people start talking about manager's instilling their philosophy on a club or building a legacy. Most managers are not in a job long enough to do either and even the ones who stay in a job for longer than three years rarely leave much of a legacy.

I think that Poch is an infinitely better manager than AVB and has a temperament far better suited to the position but I remember people starting talking like this at the end of AVB's first season and look how quickly that fell apart. I am not saying that this will happen but (hypothetically) if we finished fourth, got knocked out in qualifying for the Champions League and then had a bad start to next season, a lot of people would forget about the progress we have made this season and the same old brick about proper wingers, 4-4-2 and practising set pieces would come up again.
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Cant really see it falling apart this time unless quite a few players are allowed to leave.

Set pieces still can do with more work though - even now!!;)
 
milo said:
It is easy to say that when things are going well.

I think that Levy has got a lot of things right but his choice of managers has been scatter gun at best and does not show a clear strategy being followed. The knock on effect from not having a clear strategy of the type of manager he wants running the club has been the high turnover of players that we have seen during his tenure. Hopefully, he has got it right now and whether that is luck or judgement is immaterial for the moment.

I am just hesitant when people start talking about manager's instilling their philosophy on a club or building a legacy. Most managers are not in a job long enough to do either and even the ones who stay in a job for longer than three years rarely leave much of a legacy.

I think that Poch is an infinitely better manager than AVB and has a temperament far better suited to the position but I remember people starting talking like this at the end of AVB's first season and look how quickly that fell apart. I am not saying that this will happen but (hypothetically) if we finished fourth, got knocked out in qualifying for the Champions League and then had a bad start to next season, a lot of people would forget about the progress we have made this season and the same old brick about proper wingers, 4-4-2 and practising set pieces would come up again.
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i agree with a lot of that, i'm still very much a fan of AVB though

to my mind the general situation really isnt that different from AVB's high water mark and as you say it wouldnt take much to see the knives come out for Poch, a crazy bid for Kane, a goal shy start from his replacement, back to back fixtures against title challengers...

i think that there are a lot of parallels in what AVB and Poch want from their team and i'm happy to believe Levy had that in mind when he made the hire

we have an obvious plan to build a squad of plug in guys now, i hope Levy now includes the manager in that depth chart
 
I don't get the Avb thing. His record at Chelsea suggested it wouldn't work and keeping it right and hope for a piece of individual brilliance wouldn't be a good fit for a club with our budget.
 
Pirate55 said:
Cant really see it falling apart this time unless quite a few players are allowed to leave.

Set pieces still can do with more work though - even now!!;)
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You only have to read through the predictions thread to see how good most of us are at predicting what will happen. I think most of us (me included) had Chelsea down to win the title*.

An anti-climatic end to this season, our key players getting knackered in the Euros and then having to start pre-season early with the Champions League qualifiers and next season season starts looking a bit more difficult. A couple of bad results and we could lose momentum and confidence. Obviously, this is an extreme example and I really hope that this won't happen but it takes a lot less time for form to collapse than it does to build.














*I had Leicester down to be relegated too :oops:
 
milo said:
It is easy to say that when things are going well.

I think that Levy has got a lot of things right but his choice of managers has been scatter gun at best and does not show a clear strategy being followed. The knock on effect from not having a clear strategy of the type of manager he wants running the club has been the high turnover of players that we have seen during his tenure. Hopefully, he has got it right now and whether that is luck or judgement is immaterial for the moment.

I am just hesitant when people start talking about manager's instilling their philosophy on a club or building a legacy. Most managers are not in a job long enough to do either and even the ones who stay in a job for longer than three years rarely leave much of a legacy.

I think that Poch is an infinitely better manager than AVB and has a temperament far better suited to the position but I remember people starting talking like this at the end of AVB's first season and look how quickly that fell apart. I am not saying that this will happen but (hypothetically) if we finished fourth, got knocked out in qualifying for the Champions League and then had a bad start to next season, a lot of people would forget about the progress we have made this season and the same old brick about proper wingers, 4-4-2 and practising set pieces would come up again.
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Exactly; we are all sucking Poch's nuts atm, but a couple of consecutive bad results and the likes of @shaney and others will come out and be saying how "it's all AVB again"

I also agree that Levy has seemed to lurch from one type of manager to another, but i think it has been due to going into panic/"let's stable this good ship for now" mode when it may have looked like we were sinking or couldn't get the preferred choice of coach at the time. Hopefully Poch is the coach he has been looking all this time.

Let's also hope we can take and appreciate the ups and downs we will have with Poch and still show the same positivity we are seeing when the 'low times' happen.
 
glorygloryeze said:
Exactly; we are all sucking Poch's nuts atm, but a couple of consecutive bad results and the likes of @shaney and others will come out and be saying how "it's all AVB again"

I also agree that Levy has seemed to lurch from one type of manager to another, but i think it has been due to going into panic/"let's stable this good ship for now" mode when it may have looked like we were sinking or couldn't get the preferred choice of coach at the time. Hopefully Poch is the coach he has been looking all this time.

Let's also hope we can take and appreciate the ups and downs we will have with Poch and still show the same positivity we are seeing when the 'low times' happen.
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It's why it's vital we but reinforcements in areas where we don't ha e the right back up or developing players.. Namely centre forward
 
milo said:
It is easy to say that when things are going well.

I think that Levy has got a lot of things right but his choice of managers has been scatter gun at best and does not show a clear strategy being followed. The knock on effect from not having a clear strategy of the type of manager he wants running the club has been the high turnover of players that we have seen during his tenure. Hopefully, he has got it right now and whether that is luck or judgement is immaterial for the moment.

I am just hesitant when people start talking about manager's instilling their philosophy on a club or building a legacy. Most managers are not in a job long enough to do either and even the ones who stay in a job for longer than three years rarely leave much of a legacy.

I think that Poch is an infinitely better manager than AVB and has a temperament far better suited to the position but I remember people starting talking like this at the end of AVB's first season and look how quickly that fell apart. I am not saying that this will happen but (hypothetically) if we finished fourth, got knocked out in qualifying for the Champions League and then had a bad start to next season, a lot of people would forget about the progress we have made this season and the same old brick about proper wingers, 4-4-2 and practising set pieces would come up again.
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We can hope for a legacy from Pochettino. It's optimistic, but we can hope.

More realistically though the legacy being made at the club is from the academy/development part of the club combined with the top class training ground and a new stadium. I love Pochettino and really rate him, but with proper youth development and a bigger stadium we have a lot of ways to succeed long term even without Poch.
 
milo said:
It is easy to say that when things are going well.

I think that Levy has got a lot of things right but his choice of managers has been scatter gun at best and does not show a clear strategy being followed. The knock on effect from not having a clear strategy of the type of manager he wants running the club has been the high turnover of players that we have seen during his tenure. Hopefully, he has got it right now and whether that is luck or judgement is immaterial for the moment.

I am just hesitant when people start talking about manager's instilling their philosophy on a club or building a legacy. Most managers are not in a job long enough to do either and even the ones who stay in a job for longer than three years rarely leave much of a legacy.

I think that Poch is an infinitely better manager than AVB and has a temperament far better suited to the position but I remember people starting talking like this at the end of AVB's first season and look how quickly that fell apart. I am not saying that this will happen but (hypothetically) if we finished fourth, got knocked out in qualifying for the Champions League and then had a bad start to next season, a lot of people would forget about the progress we have made this season and the same old brick about proper wingers, 4-4-2 and practising set pieces would come up again.
Click to expand...

No doubt Levy has made mistakes in the past, but whether he arrived at the Poch conclusion because of luck or strategy doesn't change my mind that the way he runs the club now he has him, shows a clear strategic thought in place. Strategy works when you recognise your strengths and put plans in place to minimise weaknesses. It's the entire organisation pulling in one direction and consistent across a number of different areas.

Hiring AVB was a nice ideas in practice, in that we needed a manager with a system that could make us play better than the sum of our parts with a tactical system that could run through the club. Only as soon as he joins and starts demanding cash for signings, considering we are never going to be able to compete on finances, it's a massive failure in strategy. He also reportedly had little interest in the youth teams. Again a big failure on strategy.

As I've said, whether it's luck or judgement that we ended up getting Poch, how we've used him shows clear strategy. I don't buy into certain managers being great and others being rubbish. AVB is a good guy and at the right club he can do well. At the wrong club Poch would look like a demanding tyrant with ideas above his station. As managers they have to make the right decisions for their careers and clubs should be more careful about hiring based on what their strategy is. Poch is going great because he's at the right club for him, for a number of different reasons. I don't see that changing unless something upsets the dynamic that's in place.
 
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