Mauricio Pochettino - Sacked

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

“I don’t see him walking away. He’s at a club where everything is in place. Off-field, they’ve got an amazing stadium and incredible training facilities. And he’s got an excellent group of players,” Redknapp told talkSPORT.


“At the moment, they’re having a bit of a blip. It’s up to him now to show how good he is, get them back on track and start playing as we all know they can. If he’s a great manager, he’s going to have to do that now.”

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

On Robbie Savage's Premier League Breakfast, they were debating Tottenham's demise this season.

Statman Dave said: "Spurs look tired. They are ranked bottom four for pressing in the Premier League."

Meanwhile, journalist John Cross thinks that the problem stems from Mauricio Pochettino: "He seems so unhappy and that negativity spreads throughout the squad and drags them down."

Can they turn negativity into positivity with victory over Brighton on Saturday?

 

[nayenezgani]

fudge me, the hacks have the knives out now. Savage and Redknapp? fudging gonads.

 

[Jurgen the German]

fudge me, the hacks have the knives out now. Savage and Redknapp? fudging gonad*s.

Have I missed something? Redknapp said it’s a blip and he expects Poch to turn it around. Hardly knives out.

 

[nayenezgani]

Have I missed something? Redknapp said it’s a blip and he expects Poch to turn it around. Hardly knives out.

"If he’s a great manager, he’s going to have to do that now."

His progress with us to date doesn't make him a great manager? gonads.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

Dont forget the summer bought rest and relaxation, and a full pre season too.

I dont think Kane has looked as fit for years. Son, bless him, actually got some time off. Lamela is actually fit! Winks had a break. Sissoko had a break (and considering the work he gets through it must have been needed).

The "issues" the summer layered on I dont see as issues really. Yes we bought players to make changes, and they havent been available yet (NDombele-sort of). But there still remained the team we had before, the team more than good enough to move forward into the season - actually having had proper preparation for the season.


So much noise about the issues we have faced, and yes things are less than ideal, but IMHO very few of them are real and genuine game changers if the manager is on his game.

ive acknowledged that he should just be getting on with it.

Buying decent players was not one of the issues. Them being available is, if you're looking to move things forward.

The players you've virtually told to go . Rose, Aurier, Wanyama remaining is an issue. The last year of contract boys remaining is an issue (although in another mindset Toby and Eriksen remaining could be seen as a massive plus).

If Poch is looking to a new project...the relics of the old linger on (and on).

May main point was you are looking for progress? I'm just saying, that with the non-developments of players moving and the new players hardly being available and 6 weeks of games to go on, i dont think that's a long time to judge. Xmas or after the Jan window, yes.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

The players you've virtually told to go . Rose, Aurier, Wanyama remaining is an issue. The last year of contract boys remaining is an issue (although in another mindset Toby and Eriksen remaining could be seen as a massive plus).

Davies is fit, Wanyama need not be near the squad, and KWP could be playing. Eriksen should be binned off.

Alderweireld, while not 100% at his best, I dont think is a problem, he seems to be conducting himself well (as does Vertonghen, and Id say Rose too).

These players we have virtually told to go, we have also kept in and around the team for no real reason. They dont need to be there.

If them being there is an issue, its self inflicted, rather than being something forced on Poch

If Poch is looking to a new project...the relics of the old linger on (and on).

Because he has kept them around. Eriksen, Vertonghen and Alderweireld are all leaving for free, there is nothing to be gained from keeping them in the team, we could push them out.

Rose and Wanyama were barely bringing £10m each, they basically count as the rest.

There is very little real reason for that lingering. (Except the CBs, they are pretty much required right now, but they also dont seem to be a problem)

May main point was you are looking for progress? I'm just saying, that with the non-developments of players moving and the new players hardly being available and 6 weeks of games to go on, i dont think that's a long time to judge. Xmas or after the Jan window, yes.

Progress? Not necessarily. Over the season? Yes. Bring the new blood in, settle them down, lets get moving...

Immediately? What I expect is the roots of that progress to be laid. I expect us to get back to our old selves and wash last seasons mess away.

What I certainly dont expect to see is the regression we are facing.

Ive said a number of times, results for me are secondary to performance. If we are putting something together, the showing the fruits of trainign ground labour, Im on board.

As it is we are going backwards, which I simply cant understand or excuse.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

If you were studying the results, fixtures and tables from afar without the layered on narratives......what would you see?

6th
4th best goal diff
3 home wins
2 draws away to top 4 rivals
1 cm from another win

bad home loss to a poor Saudi Sportswashing Machine
a bad DRAW to lower league Colchester LOST on pen lottery
Bashed by Bayern after 45mins of poor defending but brutal finishing

There is some bad in there BUT an outsider would be surprised that the axe was out for this manager?

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

If you were studying the results, fixtures and tables from afar without the layered on narratives......what would you see?

6th
4th best goal diff
3 home wins
2 draws away to top 4 rivals
1 cm from another win

bad home loss to a poor Saudi Sportswashing Machine
a bad DRAW to lower league Colchester LOST on pen lottery
Bashed by Bayern after 45mins of poor defending but brutal finishing

There is some bad in there BUT an outsider would be surprised that the axe was out for this manager?

The outsider wouldnt have what you call "layered on narratives", but I call "Seeing the actual performances".

If they did have that, I suspect they would understand the feeling at the moment.

Things seem to me, right now, VERY end of days/dead man walking/only a matter of time.

And while Ive been harsh on Poch (though honest, I feel) I really do want him to turn it around. Ive been a huge supporter of his his whole tenure, and all I really want is to get our Poch back.

The guy we have now? Its like some sort of imposter.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

Because he has kept them around. Eriksen, Vertonghen and Alderweireld are all leaving for free, there is nothing to be gained from keeping them in the team, we could push them out.

C'mon Nayim.....He aint taking that advice.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

C'mon Nayim.....He aint taking that advice.

Why not?

 

[harr1984]

If you were studying the results, fixtures and tables from afar without the layered on narratives......what would you see?

6th
4th best goal diff
3 home wins
2 draws away to top 4 rivals
1 cm from another win

bad home loss to a poor Saudi Sportswashing Machine
a bad DRAW to lower league Colchester LOST on pen lottery
Bashed by Bayern after 45mins of poor defending but brutal finishing

There is some bad in there BUT an outsider would be surprised that the axe was out for this manager?

I agree, I dont buy that we are in a crisis YET. Three points off third having already played City, Arsenal and Leicester for your opening three away games is hardly disastrous - and only a ridiculously tight offside call prevented us from beating Leicester.

But the warning signs are there, and have been for some time. Clearly all isnt well, and it has to be sorted now otherwise we really are in trouble - Poch has to prove he is a top manager, during tough times is when you really see how good a manager is.....

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

The outsider wouldnt have what you call "layered on narratives", but I call "Seeing the actual performances".

If they did have that, I suspect they would understand the feeling at the moment.

Things seem to me, right now, VERY end of days/dead man walking/only a matter of time.

And while Ive been harsh on Poch (though honest, I feel) I really do want him to turn it around. Ive been a huge supporter of his his whole tenure, and all I really want is to get our Poch back.

The guy we have now? Its like some sort of imposter.

Fair.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

As it is we are going backwards, which I simply cant understand or excuse.

The thing is if there are issues perceived (by Poch) or otherwise they are going take a while to iron out (im talking personel here and being hamstrung by the transfer window system).

Think he just needs to start with the formation. Return to the familiarity's of the 4231 and see if they respond.

Nothing is more than a dressing room killer than playing a system the players start questioning and then keep playing it.

Unless Poch is doing it as a form of self harm?

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

The thing is if there are issues perceived (by Poch) or otherwise they are going take a while to iron out (im talking personel here and being hamstrung by the transfer window system).

Think he just needs to start with the formation. Return to the familiarity's of the 4231 and see if they respond.

Nothing is more than a dressing room killer than playing a system the players start questioning and then keep playing it.

Unless Poch is doing it as a form of self harm?

Well this really is the crux of it, isnt it?

Obviously I see the personell side differently to some. For me its simple - just like when he joined, weed out the bad eggs and work with the players who are on board and showing commitment. And with that in mind, if bad eggs are ruining the group, or dynamic, it really isnt something happening TOO Poch, rather something happening because he hasnt done his bit.

That aside though - I agree completely.

ANY manager, in ANY team, has a simple job. Find a solution to the problem. First problem - what is the best way to get these players getting results? IE - how should I set the team up to be most optimal?

After that its problems like "My CB keeps getting done for pace", and the solution might be a dedicated DM, or swap the player out or something like that...

As it is, I dont see those "solutions" being employed. And usually its obvious when someone is making decisions like that.

Steff has been saying Poch is pouting, having a sulk, because things havent all gone his way. While I find that absolutely unbelievable, its really sort of looking that way isnt it?

For me its more like - for whatever reason (exhaustion IMO) - he has simply dropped the ball. Stopped doing all the things that made him a top manager.

 

[Jurgen the German]

I agree, I dont buy that we are in a crisis YET. Three points off third having already played City, Arsenal and Leicester for your opening three away games is hardly disastrous - and only a ridiculously tight offside call prevented us from beating Leicester.

But the warning signs are there, and have been for some time. Clearly all isnt well, and it has to be sorted now otherwise we really are in trouble - Poch has to prove he is a top manager, during tough times is when you really see how good a manager is.....

Pretty much my thoughts. I agree we shouldn’t panic and in isolation the results this season are not that alarming BUT there’s no denying our form in 2019 shows a worrying trend. I fully accept last season had monumental challenges in many aspects but this season we began the season in a much better mindset and situation. And I definitely think a manager’s words, actions, behaviour etc can transmit to the players. Look at Sissoko’s recent comments. Doesn’t scream a unified and united squad and club.

 

[StephenH]

Everybody need to have reboot job wise especially at the stress levels football managers work under.
He needs a break!

 

[BrainOfLevy]

I think we all need to be really patient with Poch for this season, and not try to ascribe notions to what he is thinking without all the context. We should have confidence in him, because he’s a talent and he’s the one that’s staying here. A good few players will be moving on next summer - there’s no point in bringing someone else in when these players will go.

And so with the decisions he is making, try and look at what he is facing. Why is he not bombing players out as he did before? Maybe because these players are still training well, they are just older? Maybe because it’s not as easy now to throw young players in like it was before when the expectations have been raised. It might feel like a short term fix but it may harm their overall development. He is still taking the long term view.

All of this then comes down to why we are struggling on the pitch. I don’t believe a diamond cannot work. We would have beat Leicester bad an awful VAR piece of luck. We then had to play Southampton with ten men. But we’re getting there. And will probably continue to get better as the players continue to adapt. They just have to concentrate in the right moments.

But all of this stuff - he’s sulking, he’s not taking the obvious decision to bomb influential players out, we don’t know that any of this is actually true or the right thing to think or do. He has earned our trust and he does have a plan - we should improve as the season goes on.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

he does have a plan

Does he? Thats the million $ question.

And there is no obvious answer at this point because there is no sign of it.

Unless the bastard diamond is supposed to be the future? If THATS the plan then fudge having patience and watching our season go down the toilet.

Bombing players out? Lets root that one out. We are talk about 4 at max. More realistically 2 or 3.

Eriksen is shown we can play without. Rose has Davies as proven and able cover. Sanchez was bought to replace Alderweireld...

Not exactly talking about raiding the academy are we?

IF players like Eriksen are a problem, remove them. No problem. If they are not, then lets stop using it as an excuse.

 

[Bishop]

You what?? Have you forgetten the players previously that we've tried to buy under Pochettino? Schniederlin, Johannes Geis (apparently), Wijnaldum, Frenkie De Jong, then some would ad Ceballos who went to Le Scum. We can blame him for some things but not trying to upgrade our midfield is certainly NOT one of them...may i remnd what we did (or didn't do) in Summer 2018?



Indeed we should have bought in players 2/3 years ago - but again, remember summer last year? Some of us warned that by delaying the upgrades that this would lead to big problems as we seem totally uncomfortable with revolution instead of evolution (which is what we should have done).
Many on here said "doesn't matter, we have a great squad and only the very best can improve it yada, yada"...well, here we are....

The blame for these lack of upgrades in CM fall on the board and NOT on Poch imo

You what?? Have you forgetten the players previously that we've tried to buy under Pochettino? Schniederlin, Johannes Geis (apparently), Wijnaldum, Frenkie De Jong, then some would ad Ceballos who went to Le Scum. We can blame him for some things but not trying to upgrade our midfield is certainly NOT one of them...may i remnd what we did (or didn't do) in Summer 2018?



Indeed we should have bought in players 2/3 years ago - but again, remember summer last year? Some of us warned that by delaying the upgrades that this would lead to big problems as we seem totally uncomfortable with revolution instead of evolution (which is what we should have done).
Many on here said "doesn't matter, we have a great squad and only the very best can improve it yada, yada"...well, here we are....

The blame for these lack of upgrades in CM fall on the board and NOT on Poch imo

But we signed absolutely none of them. Ceballos was an addition the this summer, so more of the too lite too late phalanx.

A passer in centre midfield was not as important to Poch as signing 2 RBs, various defensive minded CMs. This can't be denied.

With regards evolution Vs revolution I'm in complete agreement. I would have been on your side of I was posting at that time.

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