Mauricio Pochettino - Sacked

[braineclipse]

Did you even see my post a day or two ago about this squad and this season?
LoCelso, Sessegnon,Ndombele, Dele, Foyth,Davies, KWP and Dier have all been unavailable at various times already this season. Half of those named have been out most of the season. Spanners you when, say, your FBs are both out, etc...

Eriksen has acted like a clam, ditto Toby who has the added bonus of having lost a step or few...

We knew about Sessegnon when we bought him, we knew about Dier from last season. We knew Lo Celso and Ndombele would probably need time to settle in anyway.

It's probably still a somewhat higher rate of injuries than average, but not by that much. Our bench has had quality on it just about every game I think.

Likewise we knew about the contract situations well in advance.

Not saying these haven't been difficult circumstances, but I don't think this is enough to explain the performances. Pochettino needs to deal with it, as he has in the past in much more difficult circumstances.

Or put another way. Squad unrest, contract situations, new players to settle in, injuries. This seems like the perfect time to experiment with a new formation that's extremely difficult to get right? Or is that the time to get the basics right?

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

I just winder whether Poch is now a bit depressed with things, perhaps not really recovered from the emotional roller-coaster of our CL run and almost messing up finishing in the top 4.
That's if the reports in the Mail of him often watching training from his office is true.

That also belies a lack of motivation compared to previous times; which is all very sad.

But if we're honest, given the contradictions of the club and board in terms of FOOTBALLING ambition, who really could blame Poch for ending up in this state?

The thing with this is, this would be commented as a masterstroke of Fergies reign...having that slight distance from the team and letting coaches get on with the coaching.

But Poch has become detached and distant??

Its a 'sources' story anyway so .....?

 

[fernadez]

The thing with this is, this would be commented as a masterstroke of Fergies reign...having that slight distance from the team and letting coaches get on with the coaching.

But Poch has become detached and distant??

Its a 'sources' story anyway so .....?

It's a masterstroke if it works.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

It's a masterstroke if it works.

Perhaps the way he was coaching in previous seasons was a masterstroke and now for some reason it's not connecting with the squad anymore.....and he's put in the call to old bacon face..and that was his advice

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

So go on the; what would be “productive” for you right now. Pretend you’re the chairman. What are YOU going to do right now, less than 24 hours before Brighton away? What?

If Im Levy? Two things.

1) Try and fix Poch, get his head in the game. Maybe set targets, maybe advise he sack off Eriksen its ok with me, maybe discuss what moves we can make in Jan - whatever. The problem is simple, its Poch, so how do we help him get back to his best?

2) Start looking into my little black book for a replacement, just in case. Maybe sound out Mourinho, Allegri...

Did you even see my post a day or two ago about this squad and this season?
LoCelso, Sessegnon,Ndombele, Dele, Foyth,Davies, KWP and Dier have all been unavailable at various times already this season. Half of those named have been out most of the season. Spanners you when, say, your FBs are both out, etc...

Eriksen has acted like a clam, ditto Toby who has the added bonus of having lost a step or few...

Yes, I saw your list of excuses as to why Poch doesnt need to manage any more.

Obviously I dont see it the same way you do.

Eriksen is a wonderful example. Eriksen wants to leave, acts like a clam, upsets the manager and general squad vibes, do you:

Scenario A) Keep him in the squad, on the bench, and coming onto games. See that he is playing like turd so play Lamela. Lamela does well, so immediately drop him for Eriksen. Wonder why the good vibes havent returned?

Scenario B) Tell Eriksen his times up, kick him out. Let him go back to Ajax to train for fitness. Now the rotten apple is out of the barrell, focus on the players you have that are committed and want to play. Work up a system that suits them. Make Progress?

You see how the issue is management, and not players?

The thing with this is, this would be commented as a masterstroke of Fergies reign...having that slight distance from the team and letting coaches get on with the coaching.

But Poch has become detached and distant??

Its a 'sources' story anyway so .....?

Fergie built a successfull team, then introduced exciting coaches while maintaining his heir of authority.

Poch, it seems, has stomped off in a huff.

Im not sure its comparable.

 

[StephenH]

“When I was a boy...bring back the birch...pansies...”

Nah!
It’s called taking responsibility, caring and above all showing some spirit and fight!
tinkled off with us sleepwalking back to the form of the past!

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

Wolves good call like watching them

Did you watch it? What did you think?

Not really a great game, all things considered, but a great result for Wolves.

Particularly in context of their season to date, iffy form etc (as often happens to smaller clubs going through the qualifiers).

They played a clear 5-4-1 defensively, and 3-4-3 offensively. Every player knew their job and diligently kept the correct position. They all worked hard and save Jiminez (who was running the channels all game) lasted the full 90 minutes comfortably.

They were compact, and broke with intent. Clearly had a game plan to sit and soak up pressure and come into the game later on. Which they did, scoring a very deserved winner in the 93' minute (via Boly, who was excellent all night).

As I was watching it, I couldnt help thinking "we used to be like that", clear game plan, everyone knows their job, the composure to stick with it...

 

[StephenH]

Well look at Jose, lately he has left every club in chaos and people are still lining up to give him a job including plenty on here.

Don’t, Mourinho would be my nightmare appointment!
Don’t listen to me I’m in a state of trauma to point of wanting to some Klopp from Pochettino he is is too passive in defeat For me!

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

Well look at Jose, lately he has left every club in chaos and people are still lining up to give him a job including plenty on here.

Very true, though Jose does have 8 league titles, 2 CL, 2 Europa, lost count of how many domestic cups.... on his cv to mitigate the fact he is something of a wrecking ball.

Pochettino is a nearly man, so far. Which is why it might be best for him to try and get over whatever the problem is here and get us back to our best - he would look much better for it IMO.

 

[StephenH]

Did you watch it? What did you think?

Not really a great game, all things considered, but a great result for Wolves.

Particularly in context of their season to date, iffy form etc (as often happens to smaller clubs going through the qualifiers).

They played a clear 5-4-1 defensively, and 3-4-3 offensively. Every player knew their job and diligently kept the correct position. They all worked hard and save Jiminez (who was running the channels all game) lasted the full 90 minutes comfortably.

They were compact, and broke with intent. Clearly had a game plan to sit and soak up pressure and come into the game later on. Which they did, scoring a very deserved winner in the 93' minute (via Boly, who was excellent all night).

As I was watching it, I couldnt help thinking "we used to be like that", clear game plan, everyone knows their job, the composure to stick with it...

I watched it on the IPad with one eye on the athletics that Mrs was watching.
As you said this Thursday night stuff is tough for Wolves.
Was no classic that’s for sure but pleased they won!
I’m still in a state of football humbug

 

[harr1984]

Very true, though Jose does have 8 league titles, 2 CL, 2 Europa, lost count of how many domestic cups.... on his cv to mitigate the fact he is something of a wrecking ball.

Pochettino is a nearly man, so far. Which is why it might be best for him to try and get over whatever the problem is here and get us back to our best - he would look much better for it IMO.

Agree with you Nayim, and why I dont buy into people being dismissive of 'cheque book managers' - its damn hard to manage any group of players, let alone a squad full of superstar egos.

In the main all Poch has done is taken young,enthusiastic players who are willing to learn - and now they are older what are we seeing? The established older stars with bigger egos he hasnt shown that he can deal with them or the issues surrounding them. Until he does I dont think he or us as a team will kick on....

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

Agree with you Nayim, and why I dont buy into people being dismissive of 'cheque book managers' - its damn hard to manage any group of players, let alone a squad full of superstar egos.

In the main all Poch has done is taken young,enthusiastic players who are willing to learn - and now they are older what are we seeing? The established older stars with bigger egos he hasnt shown that he can deal with them or the issues surrounding them. Until he does I dont think he or us as a team will kick on....

Maybe a blind spot for me, but I honestly dont see too much in the way of ego in our squad. They all seem pretty humble and even down to earth (as footballers can be)

Though it does seem Poch is REALLY sensitive to the "feeling" with the group. Which for me maybe works when things are going well, but isnt going to help when things arent going well and you need to turn it around...

I really think he needs to drop the hammer, assert himself, and get things back up to standard though.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

Good point - Wolves are playing tonight, I fancy watching that.

Im all in on the Poch 2.0 plan. I dont think the whole team needs changing though. I think there needs to be some young blood bought in, older players moved out. Though I suspect my view on that is less drastic than yours.

My point is - good management mitigates those issues. Bad management exposes them.

A manager in good form would be doing much better with our squad today than Poch currently is. IMHO.

Perhaps that means packing the midfield, a low block, or something else. The point is its not happening (apparently, at least) and so performances are worse than they should be.

IMHO we should be comfortably 3rd, with Poch looking to Jan and the Summer to make the changes he needs. Nice timing after integrating NDombele and Lo Celso and Sessegnon...

I think you have a point that Poch is not using his own skills to the max at present. The diamond persistence is baffling.for eg.

I think he is an emotional guy and last season has taken a toll on him AND i think there is a carry thru of that, in that this season the issues surrounding the squad are mentally bogging him down further.

But we are where we are BECAUSE of him, because of Levy, and probably because of some of the players. But within that i don't think anyone has done anything outrageous, made rank bad decisions or thrown any hand grenades. We just have to accept this is where we are and move along. The problem Poch may have is the time frame of that moving along looks drawn out (for eg the running down of the contracts will last to next summer).

But day to day he needs to get his head in the game a play the hand he has to the best of his abilities.

Considering you have signed off on agreeing there was mitigating circumstances to last seasons 'bad' form we are only 6 weeks in to the new season and if Ndom La Celso and Sess are the beginning of the 'new project' they have barely played many minutes between them? So we are realistically banging along with the same old group, BUT with the summer window layering on a few more issues.

I think this is on Poch though. If his mindset is right he can march us forward. We are sh.it at RB, that is all...when everyone is fit and you boil it down.

 

[Modric THFC]

So go on the; what would be “productive” for you right now. Pretend you’re the chairman. What are YOU going to do right now, less than 24 hours before Brighton away? What?

Call Kane and Son, the two players we have to keep, and ask them are they still behind Poch.

If not he's gone.

 

[glasgowspur]

Very true, though Jose does have 8 league titles, 2 CL, 2 Europa, lost count of how many domestic cups.... on his cv to mitigate the fact he is something of a wrecking ball.

Pochettino is a nearly man, so far. Which is why it might be best for him to try and get over whatever the problem is here and get us back to our best - he would look much better for it IMO.

I like Jose and have quite a high opinion of him as a coach, but let's be clear here he is operating in a totally different level as poch.
Poch has never managed one of the top teams in a two team league (Portugal) or at a club with a blank cheque book (Chelsea) or at the two biggest clubs in the world.

Is poch blameless for the situation we are in, no, definitely not.
Is he perfect, absolutely not.
But if he wants the chance to turn it around then he has earned the right to. If he Wants to is the bit that I'm wavering on. But only very slightly.

 

[StephenH]

have quite a high opinion of him as a coach

totally agree his Inter team were a masterpiece in coaching.

What does me is the all the "the special one" silliness

 

[Baleforce]

quick thought regarding a £32m pay off, we made £70m from the CL last year, what price not qualifying...

 

[StephenH]

quick thought regarding a £32m pay off, we made £70m from the CL last year, what price not qualifying...

Mourinho cost Man U £19m 2018 - I don't believe £32m for Poch, Levy is not that stupid.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

I think you have a point that Poch is not using his own skills to the max at present. The diamond persistence is baffling.for eg.

I think he is an emotional guy and last season has taken a toll on him AND i think there is a carry thru of that, in that this season the issues surrounding the squad are mentally bogging him down further.

But we are where we are BECAUSE of him, because of Levy, and probably because of some of the players. But within that i don't think anyone has done anything outrageous, made rank bad decisions or thrown any hand grenades. We just have to accept this is where we are and move along. The problem Poch may have is the time frame of that moving along looks drawn out (for eg the running down of the contracts will last to next summer).

But day to day he needs to get his head in the game a play the hand he has to the best of his abilities.

Considering you have signed off on agreeing there was mitigating circumstances to last seasons 'bad' form we are only 6 weeks in to the new season and if Ndom La Celso and Sess are the beginning of the 'new project' they have barely played many minutes between them? So we are realistically banging along with the same old group, BUT with the summer window layering on a few more issues.

I think this is on Poch though. If his mindset is right he can march us forward. We are sh.it at RB, that is all...when everyone is fit and you boil it down.

Dont forget the summer brought rest and relaxation, and a full pre season too.

I dont think Kane has looked as fit for years. Son, bless him, actually got some time off. Lamela is actually fit! Winks had a break. Sissoko had a break (and considering the work he gets through it must have been needed).

The "issues" the summer layered on I dont see as issues really. Yes we bought players to make changes, and they havent been available yet (NDombele-sort of). But there still remained the team we had before, the team more than good enough to move forward into the season - actually having had proper preparation for the season.


So much noise about the issues we have faced, and yes things are less than ideal, but IMHO very few of them are real and genuine game changers if the manager is on his game.

But if he wants the chance to turn it around then he has earned the right to. If he Wants to is the bit that I'm wavering on. But only very slightly.

I think what Jose did with Porto and Inter should be remembered, this is more the territory where there is comparison with Poch.

Otherwise I agree with your post, except the quoted - right now Im not wavering but having a full wobble, and Poch is yet to do anything to steady me.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

quick thought regarding a £32m pay off, we made £70m from the CL last year, what price not qualifying...

Can anyone really see Levy offering a 5 year contract where, if the person is sacked, the full contract is payable? I really cant.

I would expect there to be a pay off, but not the full amount. More likely certain break clauses depending on how much is left.

Or, as Ive seen before, the sacking club liable for the managers wages only until he finds a new job. Which, for someone like Poch, would be a year tops IMHO.