Mathys Tel

[Diamond Lights]

Like all transfers there is always the risk of them going wrong and they will always be fans who will make a judgement on how good or bad they are. [ without seeing them play more then a couple of games for us].

again, the issue has nothing to do with Tel or his ability... my point is the money was CRITICAL elsewhere and the club clearly had no strategy on it

 

[parklane1]

again, the issue has nothing to do with Tel or his ability... my point is the money was CRITICAL elsewhere and the club clearly had no strategy on it

Well you know what the old saying is about opinions and that is what its boils down to.

 

[spurspinter1]

I'm not picking on you but "very good" wth!

Solanke isn't even very good, Kudus might be, but Tel! You're calling very good already? Based on what? What has he ever done at Spurs (or even Bayern if we are honest) that puts him into the category of a very good player?

I get the idea of supporting our players and looking for the best in them but this is hyperbole.

 

[Bishop]

View attachment 20406

I support the good ones. I support the team by suggesting we get rid of the bad ones (not Tel).

 

[Benny_Lad]

as mentioned dont think it's a case of him being a success or failure and not writing him off at all.

it's the fact we dropped £30M without really any thought behind it, our transfers have been scattergun at best. He's clearly not ahead of Johnson (eesh) or Odobert, and now with Xavi in, it's unlikely he'll be there. Obviously we chased Savinho and potentially linked with Lookman so at best, he's what, 3rd if not 4th choice.

If we want him up top, which i dont think suits him, he will be behind Solanke, Richy and Kolo Muani, so 4th choice at best.

I'm big on squad depth but seems we've spent £30m on a non requirement when that could have gone to more serious issues, CM or CB for example. Again that's not me writing him off, it's pointing our his squad position based on the early games and signings we've now made.

Side note, a window with Paulinha, RKM, Xavi and Kudus is great but aside from Kudus and Paulinha, everything else is scattergun and luck, not skill or thought it seems.

Couldn't agree more about your points on Tel.

Seems some people cant understand the difference between questioning whether a transfer makes logical sense vs criticising a player. Perfectly reasonable to do the former imo and this one still doesn't really make any sense to me. With Johnson playing ahead of Odo and then Tel I'm almost certain it was a club signing and not a Frank one. Club probably thought they were getting a low risk bargain.

 

[RunTMC]

He’s only played just over 900 mins, so around 10 games. Most of which was in a struggling side, which is not a situation where you can develop easily.

What I don’t get is that we signed him when he was 19, so clearly one for the future. However looking at discussions he seems to be judged as a ready now player. Hence why there’s a bit of a disconnect in the debate.

 

[DubaiSpur]

He’s only played just over 900 mins, so around 10 games. Most of which was in a struggling side, which is not a situation where you can develop easily.

What I don’t get is that we signed him when he was 19, so clearly one for the future. However looking at discussions he seems to be judged as a ready now player. Hence why there’s a bit of a disconnect in the debate.

It's because of the level of hype that surrounded him when he signed. A top-tier young talent from Bayern Munich, thrown straight into the first team due to our injury crisis - the expectations were through the roof, in a totally unfair way.

Kane looked like a donkey until 21 when something just clicked. I remember watching him spurn chance after chance against Benfica in the Europa League in 2014 and thinking he would at best end up a cheap backup when Soldado came good.

Tel is just 20. Folks need to be kinder to the kid.

 

[Benny_Lad]

He’s only played just over 900 mins, so around 10 games. Most of which was in a struggling side, which is not a situation where you can develop easily.

What I don’t get is that we signed him when he was 19, so clearly one for the future. However looking at discussions he seems to be judged as a ready now player. Hence why there’s a bit of a disconnect in the debate.

But didn't we already have a young left sided player to develop in Odobert? Again....it doesn't seem strategic.

 

[braineclipse]

But didn't we already have a young left sided player to develop in Odobert? Again....it doesn't seem strategic.

Both Odobert and Tel have already and could potentially develop into playing other positions too.

We have Moore too of course. Could be that we'll end up having too many players to give meaningful minutes to some of these talented young players, not a fan of that. But could also be a good thing, workload on the squad will be high this season.

 

[Silly McSilly Face]

But didn't we already have a young left sided player to develop in Odobert? Again....it doesn't seem strategic.

In my view it wasn't strategic, it was opportunistic in that Tel has been seen as a huge potential talent in the game at 19 and while his development may have stalled that allowed him to become available and we took a punt as it is the only chance of a club with our stature picking up a kid that was talked about as a potential worldy. Obviously this can go one of three ways - can go down the Marcus Edwards route, can go down the Erik Lamela route (not a worldy but a very solid top division pro) or can go down the De Bruyne route (raced about at 15/16, development stalls, gets a move, finds his feet and becomes the worldy

 

[Lilbaz]

But didn't we already have a young left sided player to develop in Odobert? Again....it doesn't seem strategic.

Both play in the same team for france. They can both play more than one position.

 

[K.D.D.D.D.Soc]

In my view it wasn't strategic, it was opportunistic in that Tel has been seen as a huge potential talent in the game at 19 and while his development may have stalled that allowed him to become available and we took a punt as it is the only chance of a club with our stature picking up a kid that was talked about as a potential worldy. Obviously this can go one of three ways - can go down the Marcus Edwards route, can go down the Erik Lamela route (not a worldy but a very solid top division pro) or can go down the De Bruyne route (raced about at 15/16, development stalls, gets a move, finds his feet and becomes the worldy

Unfortunately few PL teams fighting for CL places will give young players the time, those that do have a settled team with usually 7/8 international regular starters. Teams in danger of relegation opt for experienced players. No manager is safe from the sack and it's a brave man who gambles his job on a kid.

 

[braineclipse]

In my view it wasn't strategic, it was opportunistic in that Tel has been seen as a huge potential talent in the game at 19 and while his development may have stalled that allowed him to become available and we took a punt as it is the only chance of a club with our stature picking up a kid that was talked about as a potential worldy. Obviously this can go one of three ways - can go down the Marcus Edwards route, can go down the Erik Lamela route (not a worldy but a very solid top division pro) or can go down the De Bruyne route (raced about at 15/16, development stalls, gets a move, finds his feet and becomes the worldy

I mostly agree, but also think being opportunistic can be a good and useful part of an overall strategy.

 

[Silly McSilly Face]

Both play in the same team for france. They can both play more than one position.

Tel himself sees his long term role as a striker supposedly.

 

[Silly McSilly Face]

I mostly agree, but also think being opportunistic can be a good and useful part of an overall strategy.

You've got to be opportunistic and flexible. While planning and strategy is important, there's an old saying that a plan never survives contact with the enemy, or to quote Mike Tyson: "Everybody's got a plan, until they get punched in the face". If you can't deviate from "the plan", take advantage of opportunity and roll with the punches being thrown by your opponents then you'll end up failing.

 

[Benny_Lad]

Both play in the same team for france. They can both play more than one position.

I look forward to seeing the development pathway that results in them both being starters for us in different positions.

 

[braineclipse]

You've got to be opportunistic and flexible. While planning and strategy is important, there's an old saying that a plan never survives contact with the enemy, or to quote Mike Tyson: "Everybody's got a plan, until they get punched in the face". If you can't deviate from "the plan", take advantage of opportunity and roll with the punches being thrown by your opponents then you'll end up failing.

Well put.

Unless we find the somehow unknown 19 year old Messi on a free transfer there will always be compromises between opportunity and what we need for the team short and long term.

 

[harr1984]

Tel himself sees his long term role as a striker supposedly.

Well he played there for France U21s in the tournament in the summer with Odobert out wide. He looked good there to me, of course it's a different level especially physically and especially playing up front against big grown men CBs in the PL.

But against his peers he looked good, and why I would recommend both patience and perseverance with him. He is 19, and I think he will breakout within the next couple of years.....

 

[Silly McSilly Face]

Well he played there for France U21s in the tournament in the summer with Odobert out wide. He looked good there to me, of course it's a different level especially physically and especially playing up front against big grown men CBs in the PL.

But against his peers he looked good, and why I would recommend both patience and perseverance with him. He is 19, and I think he will breakout within the next couple of years.....

I think that's the thing, if he develops physically and mentally to the point where he's as physically and mentally strong as a wily PL defender then the u21 tournament is a hint of what may be possible. Similar with Archie Gray. He still looks like a bit of a scrawny teenage yet was able to do a job as a CB for majority of a PL season without being too ruffled. Imagine what a beast he could be as he bulks out a bit into his 20s?

 

[Muttley]

Well he played there for France U21s in the tournament in the summer with Odobert out wide. He looked good there to me, of course it's a different level especially physically and especially playing up front against big grown men CBs in the PL.

But against his peers he looked good, and why I would recommend both patience and perseverance with him. He is 19, and I think he will breakout within the next couple of years.....

The game has changed over the years and it's become about 95-105 mins with 5 subs. We're in 4 competitions with stacks of games, not forgetting the international breaks.

Spurs effectively have changed Son, Werner and Moore for Muani, Kudus and Simons in this season's squad. In some ways, it's not really any different for Tel or Odobert than the second half of last season.

If there is a sustained period where you're not getting into the match day squad then there is perhaps cause to think about not continuing at a club. This hasn't been the case yet for these 2 young guys.