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Ingerlund

Jurgen the German said:
England and Tottenham are eerily similar. Have great talent but can’t get over the line. Play in white. Some over-confident/deluded fans ahem Rio Ferdinand. I feel like we have a team capable of getting close in future tournaments but can’t see us winning anything unless we are at home. We were at home this tournament for all bar one game, other teams also had to travel thousands of miles Denmark who had to traipse to Baku before playing us and we needed extra time to finish them off. We would have been more rested than other teams.
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Denmark woudkmt have got out of their group if they hadn’t played their games at home IMO
That first game shocked them so much
Italy started off flying playing at home after that they actually started scoring much less and were much much less dominant before yesterday
England playing away will IMO take the pressure off the players which in this country is huge and actually too much
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Denmark woudkmt have got out of their group if they hadn’t played their games at home IMO
That first game shocked them so much
Italy started off flying playing at home after that they actually started scoring much less and were much much less dominant before yesterday
England playing away will IMO take the pressure off the players which in this country is huge and actually too much
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I am more optimistic than I have been in the past about England. Still not sure I can see us getting over the line. Can’t see who is going to take the game by the scruff of the neck and win it for us. Won’t be Kane or Sterling.

Who wins a trophy first, spurs or England?
 
I want to see how Southgate deals with the World Cup next time around.
He comes across as an intelligent, logical, reflective man. I would hope he can look back at last night and see where his tactics, his lack of pro-active thinking, led to us losing the benefit of the early goal. He's done an enormous amount of good with the England team so I'm personally happy to see him get another crack at the biggest prize.
 
Glenda's Legs said:
I want to see how Southgate deals with the World Cup next time around.
He comes across as an intelligent, logical, reflective man. I would hope he can look back at last night and see where his tactics, his lack of pro-active thinking, led to us losing the benefit of the early goal. He's done an enormous amount of good with the England team so I'm personally happy to see him get another crack at the biggest prize.
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The World Cup is gonna be odd at best
It’s winter for European teams
It’s mid season for most nations too
It’s the kind of World Cup which can unfairly get a manager the sack
 
braineclipse said:
I agree with most of that, but I do think England were second best. Partly in the final because of a handy run of knockout games and even if given just about the best start possible in the final still ending up looking second best.

Being this good does give England a chance at a title, but I think the question is if Southgate can make them even better or if this more cautious approach will remain is choice even when Grealish, Foden, Sancho etc take the next step (assuming they do).

There's an even better England team at least possible 1-3 years from now. Not convinced Southgate is the man to really get the best out of this lot. But he's earned the chance I guess.
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Anything could happen between now and the next tournament.
If Euro 2020 had happened when it was supposed to then England would have had no Kane (injured), Rashford (injured), Saka, Bellingham, Phillips, Stones, Shaw and Grealish in the squad.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
The England team in 3 years strike in Germany will be immense if he is brave as a coach (although I do worry he will keep on favouring his friendly players)

Kane will be the oldest player at 30 years old
Pickford could easily still be i goal and he has never let England down. Right back is fully loaded with options and the left backs aren’t shabby
Ben white and Godfrey can come in at CB and stones and Maguire will still be there
CM could easily progress to maybe Bellingham and skipp (let’s see how skipp progresses here)
Then you will have sancho, Foden, saka behind Kane. Mount could be there. Sterling isn’t going away. Dele could have a revival… rashford may get good. Greenwood will become a hell of a CF too
That’s a basis of a brilliant side IMO
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I love your optimism.

Southgate will play 7 defenders, Sterling who still won't pass, Saka who will brick himself and Kane.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
The England team in 3 years strike in Germany will be immense if he is brave as a coach (although I do worry he will keep on favouring his friendly players)

Kane will be the oldest player at 30 years old
Pickford could easily still be i goal and he has never let England down. Right back is fully loaded with options and the left backs aren’t shabby
Ben white and Godfrey can come in at CB and stones and Maguire will still be there
CM could easily progress to maybe Bellingham and skipp (let’s see how skipp progresses here)
Then you will have sancho, Foden, saka behind Kane. Mount could be there. Sterling isn’t going away. Dele could have a revival… rashford may get good. Greenwood will become a hell of a CF too
That’s a basis of a brilliant side IMO
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I'm interested in this analysis

- Kane will still be relevant
- Grealish should be an established player
- Sterling will not, but I'd assume 1 or 2 out of Sancho, Foden, Saka, Mount, Dele, Rashford will hopefully stepped up and become consistent top level
- Maguire will likely be there
- Stones will not, mediocre defender protected by his partner, any injury to Dias will expose him and his confidence will get shot and it will be back to where he was 2 years ago.
- RB stacked? Walker and Tripps in 3 years time or were you thinking of someone else?
- LB? Shaw isn't good enough

CM is a huge hole, the fact that you are talking about players who have basically never played for England highlights that, the problem of midfielders comfortable with possession and/or creativity hasn't been solved.

Effectively you have exactly the same problem
- A side with a truly world class striker, a ton of decent attacking midfield options
- No CM of quality
- Ok back line
- Extremely conservative manager who won't take advantage of the team strength.

Without a kind draw, the side will do the usual England thing, qualify easily, and fall at the first or second real challenge.
 
Raziel said:
I'm interested in this analysis

- Kane will still be relevant
- Grealish should be an established player
- Sterling will not, but I'd assume 1 or 2 out of Sancho, Foden, Saka, Mount, Dele, Rashford will hopefully stepped up and become consistent top level
- Maguire will likely be there
- Stones will not, mediocre defender protected by his partner, any injury to Dias will expose him and his confidence will get shot and it will be back to where he was 2 years ago.
- RB stacked? Walker and Tripps in 3 years time or were you thinking of someone else?
- LB? Shaw isn't good enough

CM is a huge hole, the fact that you are talking about players who have basically never played for England highlights that, the problem of midfielders comfortable with possession and/or creativity hasn't been solved.

Effectively you have exactly the same problem
- A side with a truly world class striker, a ton of decent attacking midfield options
- No CM of quality
- Ok back line
- Extremely conservative manager who won't take advantage of the team strength.

Without a kind draw, the side will do the usual England thing, qualify easily, and fall at the first or second real challenge.
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Ah the old kind draw again…
Don’t forget the teams in the group of death all fell earlier than the teams that left the England group
I mentioned the players who haven’t really played in CM to compliment the ones who have
Don’t forget every other teams gonna be 3 years older too and this wasn’t a tournament with youngsters shining other than Donnarunna.
RB you have the lad who had just won the CL sat in reserve. A very capable RB defensively at United. There are more coming though too
Left back shaw is fine and Chillwell has just won the CL (I’m not a fan) so can’t be bad
Southgate is the key issue. Will he grow a pair or revert to type
I kinda hope Holland teaches him a thing or two and maybe Chris Powell
But I’m far from convinced
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Ah the old kind draw again…
Don’t forget the teams in the group of death all fell earlier than the teams that left the England group
I mentioned the players who haven’t really played in CM to compliment the ones who have
Don’t forget every other teams gonna be 3 years older too and this wasn’t a tournament with youngsters shining other than Donnarunna.
RB you have the lad who had just won the CL sat in reserve. A very capable RB defensively at United. There are more coming though too
Left back shaw is fine and Chillwell has just won the CL (I’m not a fan) so can’t be bad
Southgate is the key issue. Will he grow a pair or revert to type
I kinda hope Holland teaches him a thing or two and maybe Chris Powell
But I’m far from convinced
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The draw was kind, no real discussion. That's not to say England wouldn't have gotten as far with a worse draw, but it was kind.

On younger players. Pedri. But in general, I'd think it's rather likely that at least a couple teams will also get better. But I agree that England are one that should expect to get better.
 
braineclipse said:
The draw was kind, no real discussion. That's not to say England wouldn't have gotten as far with a worse draw, but it was kind.

On younger players. Pedri. But in general, I'd think it's rather likely that at least a couple teams will also get better. But I agree that England are one that should expect to get better.
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plenty of players will progress with other nations
I don’t see Spain’s next generation currently but their structure is such that players will come through. Pedri has almost come out of nowhere for example
Same at France. Italy will also allow more youngsters games soon so again could improve

I agree about the draw but Italy didn’t beat England. They won on a decider created to find a winner. Italy didn’t beat Spain either. But neither England or Spain beat Italy.

and Italy were IMO overall the best side in it over the games they played although Spain should have beat them with the chances they created
 
Bedfordspurs said:
plenty of players will progress with other nations
I don’t see Spain’s next generation currently but their structure is such that players will come through. Pedri has almost come out of nowhere for example
Same at France. Italy will also allow more youngsters games soon so again could improve

I agree about the draw but Italy didn’t beat England. They won on a decider created to find a winner. Italy didn’t beat Spain either. But neither England or Spain beat Italy.

and Italy were IMO overall the best side in it over the games they played although Spain should have beat them with the chances they created
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Isn't everything in football created to find a winner. We count goals, but the concept of goals are also created.

I see your point, but having a goalie that's great at saving penalties is a skill and quality just like anything else. Being good at the things created to decide a winner is what you're supposed to do.
 
braineclipse said:
Isn't everything in football created to find a winner. We count goals, but the concept of goals are also created.

I see your point, but having a goalie that's great at saving penalties is a skill and quality just like anything else. Being good at the things created to decide a winner is what you're supposed to do.
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I’m not arguing winning at penalties is winning. But also it’s not defeat.
I mean it’s a system created to target a weak spot so is effective but it tests an individual rather than a team in a team game

and for example Pickford saved as many penalties in the final as Donna did…

it came down to Rashford hitting the post in the end to differentiate

but you need a winner and I don’t think there is a better system myself
 
Bedfordspurs said:
I’m not arguing winning at penalties is winning. But also it’s not defeat.
I mean it’s a system created to target a weak spot so is effective but it tests an individual rather than a team in a team game

and for example Pickford saved as many penalties in the final as Donna did…

it came down to Rashford hitting the post in the end to differentiate

but you need a winner and I don’t think there is a better system myself
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Could you imagine if they went old school and called it a draw and just had a replay 3 days later!
 
Bedfordspurs said:
but you need a winner and I don’t think there is a better system myself
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I think there is: penalties like in hockey. Every player starts at the circle and goes one on one with the keeper. Firstly, it would benefit the offensive team (as you would mainly expect attackers to be better in these situations). A team throwing on 6 defenders to shore up will be penalized.

Secondly, it's skill. Quite literally anyone can score a penalty. And anyone can miss one. To go one-on-one is also within the spirit and purpose of the game. Penalties are not.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
I’m not arguing winning at penalties is winning. But also it’s not defeat.
I mean it’s a system created to target a weak spot so is effective but it tests an individual rather than a team in a team game

and for example Pickford saved as many penalties in the final as Donna did…

it came down to Rashford hitting the post in the end to differentiate

but you need a winner and I don’t think there is a better system myself
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Only one team gets the trophy, a defeat is a defeat.

I think it was extremely telling that despite dominating the game from the start of the 2nd half, Italy (similar to what they did with Spain) never overcommitted themselves, never pushed for the winning goal, as a unit they were quite comfortable with taking it to penalties and winning it there, you can't tell me anyone in England was comfortable with the thought of going to penalties if the manager has to put up a 19 years old and make a last minute sub to rush tow players on for the penalties ..
 
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