THFC6061
Paul Robinson
Perhaps, but we're talking about Spurs supporters here!
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Hugo Lloris
- Thread starter charlietheyid
- Start date
Perhaps, but we're talking about Spurs supporters here!
Spurs@HKMaOnShan
Rohan Ricketts
Apparently Lloris stood up with two feet:lol:
Ince still should not have played because of the hit in his head, according to doctors' advice:-"
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Craig_J
Mido
As stated by Seedy Ron, Lloris was knocked out. Ince wasn't. Also, theirs been a lot of advancments that now show how much damage can be done. Look at Cech who is now having to wear a protective hat for the rest of his career after having, despite what doctors didn't think too serious at the time, what could've been a life ending blow.
Head injurys aren't a case of "if you can get up and still walk you'll be fine". You can have a head injury with no symptoms for a good few hours and then all of a sudden collapse and die. The fact that Lloris DID show symtpoms, was unconconcious and then continued to display symptoms by being unaware of where he was means he should've been taken off straight away.
Lucky that we aren't sat here today talking about his up coming funeral.
Craig_J
Mido
Exactly my dad had a fall of a three story high roof one day and landed on his head. He was unconcious for a few miniutes and then came too. Everyone told him to go to hospital urgently, but he said he would be fine and went home to rest as well. Ever since then he's gained bi-polar, suffers with epilepsy and had to get a ghost-brain tumor removed which may or may not have now came back. The doctors are convinced it was the head injury that caused it.
Head injurys are much more different to others and that's why AVB deserves all the crticism coming his way.
DeanoAustin
Jimmy McCormick
Ah come on. I can buy most of the rest of your post but "lucky we aren't talking about his upcoming funeral"? That sort of hyperbole undermines the argument for taking him off. The chances of him dying from that injury are astronomical. When was the last time a player died from a head injury sustained on the pitch?
It wasn't lucky at all.
Junior19
Øyvind Leonhardsen
No. Of course not.
But if the player doesn't even remember having clashed heads, he is off!
If he answers "Thursday" to the question "what day is it?", he is off! (unless it is a EL-game, that is..)
If he has been out cold, he should be off.
Unconsciousness is serious matter! In fiction and movies the hero gets knocked out left,right and center, often using the barrel of a gun, or kicked in the head with studded boots. He wakes up a few hours later, just a little dazed, because he is a good guy. In real life the hero would end up with severe injuries, and in some cases quite dead.
chancer
Gudni Bergsson
I think one thing not being acknowledged enough is the credibility of the medical staff. To have their judgement so publicly questioned, then overturned, undermined their credibility and was, in fact, professionally humiliating.
It seems clear to me there was no protocol in place for situations of disagreement like this (which in fairness was largely because it is a rare occurrence). Whatever about mistakes made in the heat of the moment on Sunday, never again must there be a debate on the pitchside about this stuff. Doctor's word is law, end of, even if he's later proved wrong. Levy must formalise this and see to it this is understood through coaching and playing staff.
It seems clear to me there was no protocol in place for situations of disagreement like this (which in fairness was largely because it is a rare occurrence). Whatever about mistakes made in the heat of the moment on Sunday, never again must there be a debate on the pitchside about this stuff. Doctor's word is law, end of, even if he's later proved wrong. Levy must formalise this and see to it this is understood through coaching and playing staff.
DubaiSpur
Ian Walker
Exactly this. The same medical staff who recognized the severity of Muamba's collapse straight away must not be overruled by anyone, be it the manager, the referee or even the player himself, when it comes to injuries with possible delayed effects like head trauma. Looking back on it now, despite Lloris' 'I'm a soldier' fortitude, he probably should have been hauled off for his own good. Better safe than sorry, after all. We probably got lucky with Lloris (CT scan after the game didn't detect any abnormalities, apparently) but all it takes is one wrong call for a tragedy to occur.
charlietheyid
Banned
What we did yesterday wasnt right. Hugo had to go off..
That would probably meant we lost the game though looking at the replacement.
That would probably meant we lost the game though looking at the replacement.
Jurgen the German
Erik Thorstvedt
This is from the NHS website; Symptoms of concussion include:
brief loss of consciousness
memory loss
disturbances in vision, such as 'seeing stars'
confusion
http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/concussion/Pages/introduction.aspx
Don't know about seeing stars, but he definitely exhibited 3 of those 4 symptoms from what we could see.
brief loss of consciousness
memory loss
disturbances in vision, such as 'seeing stars'
confusion
http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/concussion/Pages/introduction.aspx
Don't know about seeing stars, but he definitely exhibited 3 of those 4 symptoms from what we could see.
jts1882
Dean Richards
Agreed.
The Hippocratic oath is "first do no harm", not how best to beat Everton
The statement from the club today is embarrassing. If they were so totally sure of his fitness to continue, why take the CT scan later. The fact the CT scan gives the all clear doesn't justify a reckless decision. We need better procedures.
Modric THFC
Jimmy McCormick
Exactly it an absolute disgrace to player welfare that 2 weeks in a row a player was allowed to return to the pitch after a concussion.
Look at the regulations for concussion in horse racing for instance
http://www.thepja.co.uk/Concussion.aspx
On the day it looked like the player overruled the doctor and AVB stood by and didn't intervene.
My only issue with the idea that a player with a head injury should come off straight away is that it could cause teams problems if it's late in the game. Imagine if all three subs had been made before the incident. We'd have had to put an outfield player in goal whilst Hugo is stood on the sidelines wanting to come back on.
Could there be a 4th substitution for head injuries? Then this could be taken advantage of.
Whilst player safety is paramount, it does raise lots of other issues.
Could there be a 4th substitution for head injuries? Then this could be taken advantage of.
Whilst player safety is paramount, it does raise lots of other issues.
Millsy_Yiddo
Naybet
He didn't die, the CT scan revealed no issues, if he was actually showing signs of concusion (aka, answering Thursday to what day it is) there is absolutely no way the medical staff would let him continue. He took a fairly hefty knock on the head, medical staff thought 'he seems ok, but we should probably wing him off as a precaution', player says no I'm fine, I can count to ten, I know where I am, get me back on. Medical team weigh up the situation and follwing discussion with AVB let him stay on, he makes a great save and we go on to get a point.
I don't see what the issue is. The medical department are paid to make these calls, they will know that they have the authority to over-rule AVB. They made the right call as shown by the CT scan and the fact that Hugo was fine.
Sunderland keeper took a similar knock on Saturday, was groggy, and therefore deemed unable to continue. Had Hugo been groggy or had there been any major symptoms the medical team would have absolutely over-ruled AVB if need be. The medical teams job is to look after the safety of the players. AVB's job is to beat Everton, they were both trying to do their job and came to a compromise, a compromise which turned out to be the correct decision.
I don't see what the issue is. The medical department are paid to make these calls, they will know that they have the authority to over-rule AVB. They made the right call as shown by the CT scan and the fact that Hugo was fine.
Sunderland keeper took a similar knock on Saturday, was groggy, and therefore deemed unable to continue. Had Hugo been groggy or had there been any major symptoms the medical team would have absolutely over-ruled AVB if need be. The medical teams job is to look after the safety of the players. AVB's job is to beat Everton, they were both trying to do their job and came to a compromise, a compromise which turned out to be the correct decision.
mudshark
Chris Armstrong
Then you're simply arguing from a position of ignorance. I suggest you start by looking up epidural haematoma and go from there. You can have a slow intracranial bleed that may produce no symptoms at all for an hour or more. Then later, you slip into a coma and die. See Natasha Richardson.
Edit: and besides, it's also clear that the doctor wanted him taken off, that the player overruled the call himself, and that they now want to brush it under the rug and "move on".
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Millsy_Yiddo
Naybet
I'm aware of it. My Dad died of something similar (cerebral oedema) following a fall back in 2011.
Sorry, I don't see what the issue is is a bit of a sweeping statement from me, obviously I see what the issue is. My point is that if you and 90% of folks on this forum are aware of epidural haematoma and other potential brain injuries then I'm sure that our highly trained and very well paid medical staff are also aware of it and weighed up the risk at the time and decided that the risk was low.
I do not accept the point that they would just crumble under AVB saying he's staying on if they felt the players life was in danger.
metalgear
Luka Modric
at the heart of this is the arrangement between the coach and the medical staff.
i can't believe that avb would overule the medical staff, or the medical staff would allow avb to put the player in outright danger.
what i understand is that in these situations there will be discussions and judgement calls.
loris probably contributed to most of the earlier decisions being overturned by being clear that he wanted to continue.
the only way to be sure is to listen to the recordings of the conversation between medical staff and aVB. i'd think that if the medical staff described loris as "hallucinating" or "delirious" i'm sure avb would have called the sub. i think what probably happened when loris insisted on staying is that the medical staff revised their assessment of loris - helped by his strong opinion of his own lucidity - and asked avb to make a call.
i can't believe that avb would overule the medical staff, or the medical staff would allow avb to put the player in outright danger.
what i understand is that in these situations there will be discussions and judgement calls.
loris probably contributed to most of the earlier decisions being overturned by being clear that he wanted to continue.
the only way to be sure is to listen to the recordings of the conversation between medical staff and aVB. i'd think that if the medical staff described loris as "hallucinating" or "delirious" i'm sure avb would have called the sub. i think what probably happened when loris insisted on staying is that the medical staff revised their assessment of loris - helped by his strong opinion of his own lucidity - and asked avb to make a call.
mudshark
Chris Armstrong
I think a major point already made by myself and several others, though, is that it wasn't our highly trained medical staff, who clearly did want him taken off the field of play, that made the call, it was Lloris himself. What should have happened next is the game should have been stopped until he acceded, but that didn't happen, and now they want to move on from it, so we are getting stories about considered judgments and how he was "passed fit to play on," which clearly didn't happen.
Millsy_Yiddo
Naybet
Do you really really think that a highly trained doctor who could potentially go to jail for gross neglegence had something more serious happened to Lloris based his decision on the fact that Lloris said, 'I'm fine lads, let me carry on'?
I accept it may not have been perfect and there may be an element of bending the truth post game, but had the medical staff really felt that the player is in serious serious danger then he would have been taken off. He wasn't and everything was shown to be ok.