Hugo Lloris

[THFC6061]

Tottenham Hotspur ‏@SpursOfficial

Hugo was cleared to resume playing after examination by the Club's medical team.

 

[braineclipse]

Did the docs say he should come off then? Surprising anyone would be allowed to overrule them in that situation, player or manager.

Was a big hit, unpleasant to watch. Hope there is no lasting effect.

Yeah, hope he's ready again come next weekend. We need him as he's been brilliant for us.

 

[mudshark]

Tottenham Hotspur ‏@SpursOfficial

Hugo was cleared to resume playing after examination by the Club's medical team.

Sorry, but that's just patent nonsense IMO. They were trying to get him off the field of play and he was resisting. When did this clearance to resume playing occur, and on the basis of what? He might have had a slow bleed inside his cranial cavity, and no-one, including himself, would have known. Under these circumstances, the only thing to do is to follow protocol, and that would have been to get him off and get him under observation, which is exactly what they wanted to do.

 

[braineclipse]

Sorry, but that's just patent nonsense IMO. They were trying to get him off the field of play and he was resisting. When did this clearance to resume playing occur, and on the basis of what? He might have had a slow bleed inside his cranial cavity, and no-one, including himself, would have known. Under these circumstances, the only thing to do is to follow protocol, and that would have been to get him off and get him under observation, which is exactly what they wanted to do.

I agree with this interpretation. A bit surprised by what seems like an ****-covering attempt by the club here.

 

[THFC6061]

Lloris update

Posted by Tottenham Hotspur on 4 November 2013 - 12:03

The Club can confirm that Hugo Lloris underwent a precautionary CT scan and was given the all-clear and travelled back to London last night.

The France goalkeeper suffered a knock to the head following a collision with Everton forward Romelu Lukaku in the closing stages of yesterday's Premier League encounter at Goodison Park and was cleared to resume playing after examination by the Club's medical team.

Head of Medical Services Wayne Diesel said: "Once the relevant tests and assessments were carried out we were totally satisfied that he was fit to continue playing."

 

[Mulletperm]

Yeah. Blatant cover up due to the criticism AVB is getting.

 

[PochettinoPochettinoPochettino]

You could see Dawson say "He's fcuked" when they were walking him off!

 

[rxl]

I trust our medical team, if they said he's alright - then who are we to argue.

Fabrice Muamba might back this up also...

 

[Hootnow]

Yes, cos that's what I said.

Those people will have a vested interest in getting him off in every instance. Even they are not in a position to make a fully informed judgement. From the Headway guy damning us today "A physio or doctor treating a player on the pitch simply cannot accurately gauge the severity of the damage caused to the player's brain". In every instance, they will get the player off even if he is actually okay to continue.

Because there is no one in that stadium that can accurately gauge , not even lloris ir the doctors, without some kind of scan, preferably a ct scan. His clinical condition, in either direction tbh, is irrelevant because he becomes more susceptible to another trauma and because there are head injuries, to the skull, blood vessels or membranes surrounding the brain that aren't always immediately apparent and which might need more than a quick pitch side exam.

 

[scaramanga]

Do we even know if he was knocked out?

He was clearly in a fair bit of pain but was he unconscious at any point?

 

[DeanoAustin]

That is what you said when you said that you understood the arguments, but that you didn't agree with them. These are medical opinions. What are you saying if you're not saying that you're rating your own opinion over the opinions of medical professionals?

I think there's a pretty strong consensus among medical professionals that after receiving a head trauma like the one Lloris suffered yesterday you shouldn't continue playing football directly afterwards. This is not one doctor's or medic's opinion, this is a consensus opinion based on the medical understanding of how head traumas work.

I think you're misinterpreting what I've posted. Nowhere have I posted, "I think Hugo should have played on no matter what the medical people said" so let's kill that right away.

I understand the argument people on here are making in saying he should have gone off. They're basically saying "head injury, concussion, he should go off every time". That's what I don't agree with. To me, if Hugo reckons he is okay to continue, that he isn't in la-la land then that should be factored into the decision. I think that a medic's opinion, when they've clearly got a vested interest in getting him off, should not be the only input into the decision.

Also, if the medics yesterday thought there was any likelihood of serious damage, he wouldn't have stayed on. I guarantee you that. The reason they wanted him off was purely as a precaution. He came to, was probably coherent and while they'd have preferred to have him off, they ultimately allowed him stay on because he was fine. He proved that afterwards both in the game and with the scan he had.

 

[DeanoAustin]

Because there is no one in that stadium that can accurately gauge , not even lloris ir the doctors, without some kind of scan, preferably a ct scan. His clinical condition, in either direction tbh, is irrelevant because he becomes more susceptible to another trauma and because there are head injuries, to the skull, blood vessels or membranes surrounding the brain that aren't always immediately apparent and which might need more than a quick pitch side exam.

How many injuries to the head are there in football? How many result in any sort of serious, long term injury or damage?

The percentage is very, very small. Miniscule in fact. Then, what's the percentage of those injuries that could have been avoided with quicker treatment? Smaller again.

What this comes down to is that you think that there is no risk worth taking with this sort of injury. No matter how small. And that's fair enough. It's a discussuion worth having.

For me, if the player thinks he's okay, if he's coherent and if the medical team are not 100% insisting that he should go off then I'm happy for him to take the misiscule risk that we are talking about here.

 

[Junior19]

Football has previously had an unfortunate "tell him he's Pele and send him back on again"-attitude to head-injuries, and I was hoping we had moved on from that.

The key element with head injuries of this kind has to be precaution! The consequences are just too severe if it goes wrong.
If the player and/or the medical staff misjudges an ancle-injury or a knee-injury, the consequences can be missing a few games, or potentially a season.
If the medical staff misjudges a head injury, it is potentially life-threatning. Given that it is IMPOSSIBLE to tell if a player has a bleeding or other internal brain injuries without a scan or a prolonged observation, it was nigh on gambling with Lloris health and life to allow him to continue.

It is very simple. The medical staff got it right, Lloris and AVB got it wrong. Lloris was down and out, and should never have been allowed to continue to play. If the scan today then had showed no injury, so much the better.

 

[Lemonade Money]

I'm quite surprised that AVB delayed over this. Usually he is very decisive in substituting potentially injured players (often the fragile Dembele) to protect them for future matches. Although saying that didn't Rose keep playing and that make his injury worse.

The fear of fielding Friedel loomed large.

 

[DeanoAustin]

Football has previously had an unfortunate "tell him he's Pele and send him back on again"-attitude to head-injuries, and I was hoping we had moved on from that.

The key element with head injuries of this kind has to be precaution! The consequences are just too severe if it goes wrong.
If the player and/or the medical staff misjudges an ancle-injury or a knee-injury, the consequences can be missing a few games, or potentially a season.
If the medical staff misjudges a head injury, it is potentially life-threatning. Given that it is IMPOSSIBLE to tell if a player has a bleeding or other internal brain injuries without a scan or a prolonged observation, it was nigh on gambling with Lloris health and life to allow him to continue.

It is very simple. The medical staff got it right, Lloris and AVB got it wrong. Lloris was down and out, and should never have been allowed to continue to play. If the scan today then had showed no injury, so much the better.

Fair enough but do you think that every clash of heads in football should result in the two players being withdrawn?

 

[Hootnow]

How many injuries to the head are there in football? How many result in any sort of serious, long term injury or damage?

The percentage is very, very small. Miniscule in fact. Then, what's the percentage of those injuries that could have been avoided with quicker treatment? Smaller again.

What this comes down to is that you think that there is no risk worth taking with this sort of injury. No matter how small. And that's fair enough. It's a discussuion worth having.

For me, if the player thinks he's okay, if he's coherent and if the medical team are not 100% insisting that he should go off then I'm happy for him to take the misiscule risk that we are talking about here.

Ones where you're knocked out or receive a particularly severe blow to the head? Probably not all that many, especially as the rules of the game change and it becomes less physical. Again, the issue is often not with the initial blow. The danger is the potential effect any subsequent blow has on the brain and skull.

Usually I would agree with that. I am a mature medical student, though I'm coming to the end of my training now and for the most part, I actually think a lot of patients know more about themselves and their condition than the doctors. They know how they feel normally, they know that there is something wrong. From my (Admittedly not exactly decades worth of) experience, the major exception are things to do with the head, whether head trauma or psychiatric problems. I saw a guy in his 40s who came into a&e last year, received a trauma to his head. He was a bit groggy but insisted he was mostly fine. The doctor took this into account when choosing not to do a scan, did a normal examination, then discharged. Few days later he came back with a huge bleed in his head and died in the a&e.

Of course, I'm not saying this is common ir that this is what will happen with lloris. But it (and other long term injuries) do happen. This is not an area of the body to mess around with.

 

[Jurgen the German]

I trust our medical team, if they said he's alright - then who are we to argue.

Fabrice Muamba might back this up also...

According to AVB he overruled the doctors which is ridiculous. The player shouldn't have a say either, the doctor has to make the call and everyone should back them

 

[Jurgen the German]

Tottenham 'irresponsible' over Hugo Lloris head injury

Tottenham have been described as "irresponsible" for allowing goalkeeper Hugo Lloris to play on against Everton after losing consciousness.

The France international, 26, suffered a head injury when he collided with Romelu Lukaku's knee late on in Sunday's game, which finished 0-0.
Spurs boss Andre Villas-Boas defended the decision to let Lloris continue.

But brain injury charity Headway said the club showed an "irresponsible and cavalier attitude" to Lloris's health.

[Lloris] was in a bad way but by the time he came around he was wanting to stay on. He's a little bit dazed but he's a lot better.
”
Initially the keeper looked set to go off on a stretcher to be replaced by Brad Friedel. Lloris was led off the field during a delay which brought nine minutes of injury time at the end of the match - but he appeared determined to continue and played on after the lengthy delay as Villas-Boas decided against making a substitution.

Headway spokesman Luke Griggs said: "When a player - or any individual - suffers a blow to the head that is severe enough for them to lose consciousness, it is vital they urgently seek appropriate medical attention.

"A physio or doctor treating a player on the pitch simply cannot accurately gauge the severity of the damage caused to the player's brain in such a setting as there may be delayed presentation of symptoms.

"By continuing to play, the player may have caused greater damage to his brain. He should have been removed from the game immediately and taken to hospital for thorough tests and observation."

Villas-Boas said: "He doesn't remember it so he lost consciousness. It was a big knock but he looked composed and ready to continue."

Talking to BBC Sport, he added: "Hugo seemed assertive and determined to continue and showed great character and personality. We decided to keep him on based on that.

"The call always belongs to me. Brad was ready to come in but the person Hugo is, there were enough signs for him to continue."

Everton striker Lukaku, who was cautioned for the challenge, had to put ice on his knee after being replaced shortly after the incident.

Spurs captain Michael Dawson appeared to try to persuade Lloris to go off after the Frenchman got to his feet.

The centre-back admitted his initial feeling was that the goalkeeper should not have continued.

Dawson said: "He took a really bad whack and I was worried when he went down and stayed down. When he got up his legs gave way but he stayed on and made two good saves.

"I lead those boys but safety is the most important thing. He was in a bad way but by the time he came around he was wanting to stay on. He's a little bit dazed but he's a lot better."

Guidelines from Headway and the National Institute for Health and Care Excellence state people should not play any contact sport for at least three weeks after suffering a concussion.

Griggs added: "Sports science has evolved significantly over the past decade and yet we're still faced with the antiquated concept that a player should be brave and try to continue at all costs. Mr Villas-Boas's comment that his player's determination to play on was proof of his 'great character and personality' is simply wrong and dangerous."

-------------------------------

Already people are making a big issue out of this. Hope Lloris will be fit for the next match. Don't think we can afford to rest him for 3 weeks as Friedel is too error-prone now.

Want to see some pictures of my cat? Brain made a good comparison about drunk drivers. Players don't want to let the team down and will almost always fight to stay on.

 

[DeanoAustin]

Ones where you're knocked out or receive a particularly severe blow to the head? Probably not all that many, especially as the rules of the game change and it becomes less physical. Again, the issue is often not with the initial blow. The danger is the potential effect any subsequent blow has on the brain and skull.

Usually I would agree with that. I am a mature medical student, though I'm coming to the end of my training now and for the most part, I actually think a lot of patients know more about themselves and their condition than the doctors. They know how they feel normally, they know that there is something wrong. From my (Admittedly not exactly decades worth of) experience, the major exception are things to do with the head, whether head trauma or psychiatric problems. I saw a guy in his 40s who came into a&e last year, received a trauma to his head. He was a bit groggy but insisted he was mostly fine. The doctor took this into account when choosing not to do a scan, did a normal examination, then discharged. Few days later he came back with a huge bleed in his head and died in the a&e.

Of course, I'm not saying this is common ir that this is what will happen with lloris. But it (and other long term injuries) do happen. This is not an area of the body to mess around with.

Fair enough mate, I respect your opinion but I disagree with it.

On this website and others I'm seeing a lot of "head injury, no one knows the damage, subsequent blow could be catastrophic" for people justifying the criticism of AVB and Spurs and the opinion that Lloris should have come off no questions asked. Surely all of those arguments don't just apply to players who has been knocked out. Wouldn't those arguments also apply to a clash of heads or a good smack of the ball to the head? Are people on the other side of the argument to me seriously suggesting that any blow to the head, which could lead to the same sort of consequences that are being mentioned in relation to Lloris, should result in the player being immediately taken off?

 

[Jurgen the German]

Fair enough mate, I respect your opinion but I disagree with it.

On this website and others I'm seeing a lot of "head injury, no one knows the damage, subsequent blow could be catastrophic" for people justifying the criticism of AVB and Spurs and the opinion that Lloris should have come off no questions asked. Surely all of those arguments don't just apply to players who has been knocked out. Wouldn't those arguments also apply to a clash of heads or a good smack of the ball to the head? Are people on the other side of the argument to me seriously suggesting that any blow to the head, which could lead to the same sort of consequences that are being mentioned in relation to Lloris, should result in the player being immediately taken off?

When the player looks disoriented and not close to 100% then yes take the player off.