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Harry Winks

elltrev said:
Hmmm not sure if you can embed video files so they can be streamed rather than downloaded?

For those who can't be bothered to download the clip, these images ilustrate the point I'm referring to - where if Winks had more balls / awareness he could take this ball on the half-turn between the two Everton players and look forward, but instead plays it straight back to Toby without once looking over his shoulder:

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He can and does do that. Arguably not enough though

But I do wonder if he is actually fit right now as he was out with “something” and maybe that why he didn’t do any running.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Can’t play it
It did watch it back again on MOTD and has it on repeat today in the background whilst working... the gap when we took Dele off was massive and Made it so easy for them to play. The lack of players showing for midfield when we have them ball is horrendous
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Agreed - think this is totally the case of both things being big, independent issues (that combine to make things even worse) - our lack of attacking players showing for the ball, and Winks being too conservative.
 
elltrev said:
Agreed - think this is totally the case of both things being big, independent issues (that combine to make things even worse) - our lack of attacking players showing for the ball, and Winks being too conservative.
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They have to work hand in glove
Yesterday Docoure turned on the half with the ball several times and had James showing for him or Gomes plus longer balls to play
 
elltrev said:
Hmmm not sure if you can embed video files so they can be streamed rather than downloaded?

For those who can't be bothered to download the clip, these images ilustrate the point I'm referring to - where if Winks had more balls / awareness he could take this ball on the half-turn between the two Everton players and look forward, but instead plays it straight back to Toby without once looking over his shoulder:

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Click to expand...

Dele comes running towards him there, surely he's playable.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Dele ain’t in those photos
But he was the only attacker that half to show for the ball
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I agree. Not sure why people give him so much stick after that game, I thought he was more than decent when he played - no idea why he was subbed. You can see him coming towards Winks in the movie clip, which is why the photos are quite misleading.
 
Daisuk said:
I agree. Not sure why people give him so much stick after that game, I thought he was more than decent when he played - no idea why he was subbed. You can see him coming towards Winks in the movie clip, which is why the photos are quite misleading.
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It’s that sub what lost is any impetus that second half and that’s firmly on the manager
 
elltrev said:
Hmmm not sure if you can embed video files so they can be streamed rather than downloaded?

For those who can't be bothered to download the clip, these images ilustrate the point I'm referring to - where if Winks had more balls / awareness he could take this ball on the half-turn between the two Everton players and look forward, but instead plays it straight back to Toby without once looking over his shoulder:
Click to expand...

Thanks for these, shows a definite weakness and in your other post there's someone out on the right he could move the ball over to and run into the spacer nearer him for a give and go. That's what the top players do - they keep themselves and the ball moving, if you can keep running and playing short passes then you can keep teams on the hop and it's difficult for them to get in position to defend. If you can have 2/3 players doing that in the middle then you'll pretty much always own the midfield.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
He can and does do that. Arguably not enough though

But I do wonder if he is actually fit right now as he was out with “something” and maybe that why he didn’t do any running.
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That's another point, when is Winks fully fit. Seems he always picks up an injury and then spends the rest of the season recovering from it until he gets injured again.

I don't want him sold and hope he can become more positive but I don't think he'll be a part of the first 11 long term but I'd certainly keep him in the squad as a HG player who is still of a good standard to get game time for us.
 
P.D. said:
That's another point, when is Winks fully fit. Seems he always picks up an injury and then spends the rest of the season recovering from it until he gets injured again.

I don't want him sold and hope he can become more positive but I don't think he'll be a part of the first 11 long term but I'd certainly keep him in the squad as a HG player who is still of a good standard to get game time for us.
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I think he had COVID but jose wouldn’t confirm it
 
How do you get the balance right between trying things, and not losing the ball?

I feel like Mourinho has instilled a mentality of not screwing up. But at the same time he needs to give players like Winks confidence to play. Our midfield especially needs confidence. Needs to feel like it can run the game and take control. We definitely don't have that at the moment. Dembele gave us some pomp in midfield. The opposition would bounce off him and end up in a heap. Winks, to be the player he wants to be, has to play the ball through midfield with passing. For this to happen he needs the team around him moving, coordinated and confident. At the moment the focus is on defense - rightly so - but we need more offensive training too, so we can keep the ball and advance.
 
SpurMeUp said:
How do you get the balance right between trying things, and not losing the ball?

I feel like Mourinho has instilled a meteorology of not screwing up. But at the same time he needs to give players like Winks confidence to play. Our midfield especially needs confidence. Needs to feel like it can run the game and take control. We definitely don't have that at the moment. Dembele gave us some pomp in midfield. The opposition would bounce off him and end up in a heap. Winks, to be the player he wants to be, has to play the ball through midfield with passing. For this to happen he needs the team around him moving, coordinated and confident. At the moment the focus is on defense - rightly so - but we need more offensive training too, so we can keep the ball and advance.
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Winks was playing like this under Poch, he's basically played this way since returning from the long layoff due to his ankle injury in 2018.

I do vaguely recall reading that he was going to have to play with managed pain from then on but I don't know if that was ever confirmed or not.
 
SpurMeUp said:
How do you get the balance right between trying things, and not losing the ball?

I feel like Mourinho has instilled a meteorology of not screwing up. But at the same time he needs to give players like Winks confidence to play. Our midfield especially needs confidence. Needs to feel like it can run the game and take control. We definitely don't have that at the moment. Dembele gave us some pomp in midfield. The opposition would bounce off him and end up in a heap. Winks, to be the player he wants to be, has to play the ball through midfield with passing. For this to happen he needs the team around him moving, coordinated and confident. At the moment the focus is on defense - rightly so - but we need more offensive training too, so we can keep the ball and advance.
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Jose takes him aside to tell him (in the doc) that he can’t be caught going wide in case the opposition win the ball back and attack his space... so defend first basically
 
elltrev said:
Hmmm not sure if you can embed video files so they can be streamed rather than downloaded?

For those who can't be bothered to download the clip, these images ilustrate the point I'm referring to - where if Winks had more balls / awareness he could take this ball on the half-turn between the two Everton players and look forward, but instead plays it straight back to Toby without once looking over his shoulder:

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View attachment 9331
Click to expand...
Winks has always played like that.
Poch killed his development imo.

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metalgear said:
Winks has always played like that.
Poch killed his development imo.

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Poch is a murderer and shouldn't be trusted with the development of young players. Winks could have been the next Messi. And you can see how much Winks hated Poch after he scored his first goal against Wet Spam. I am suggesting a restraining order on Poch so he can stop putting things into young Harry's head (which he's been doing since he was binned).
 
Lol. Looks like I pushed some buttons there.

I like Poch but he has his favourites. Winks pushed through with poch no doubt but could have gone further with his technical ability.

But you can see his role under Poch is to circulate the ball, retain possession and not take risks. Good for the team but Winks can be twice the player with more confidence going forward, and a player like peh mopping up.



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metalgear said:
Lol. Looks like I pushed some buttons there.

I like Poch but he has his favourites. Winks pushed through with poch no doubt but could have gone further with his technical ability.

But you can see his role under Poch is to circulate the ball, retain possession and not take risks. Good for the team but Winks can be twice the player with more confidence going forward, and a player like peh mopping up.



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No buttons pushed. I'm a snarky sod at the best of times and living in Amerikka in an 'election' year with COVID and barely having earned a bean since mid-March has tweaked the snark to 11. I know I could make 10 snakier, but I go to 11.
 
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