Harry Kane MBE

[We are Tottenham]

Shearer is 283 on the real list. It goes:

1 Jimmy Greaves 357
2 Steve Bloomer 314
3 Dixie Dean 310
4 Gordon Hodgson 288
5 Alan Shearer 283
6 Charlie Buchan 258
7 David Jack 257
8 Nat Lofthouse 255
9 Joe Bradford 248
10 Hughie Gallacher 246
11 Joe Smith 243
12 George Brown 240
13 George Camsell 233
14 Ian Rush 232
15 David Herd 222
16 Harry Hampton 219
17 Billy Walker 214
17 Tony Cottee 214
19 Harry Kane 213

Billy Walker...? I though he was boxer!..

 

[SpurMeUp]

How many top players can you think of who will be remembered for decades never won a league title or Champions League? Or even a domestic cup.

Judging by the list of elites we’re discussing - Greaves, Shearer, Kane - I think they are/will be remembered far more than <insert average player name with league medal>.

There are hundreds if not thousands of football players who are medal winners. A lot of them (most) average players and not remotely memorable!

 

[DeanoAustin]

Judging by the list of elites we’re discussing - Greaves, Shearer, Kane - I think they are/will be remembered far more than <insert average player name with league medal>.

There are hundreds if not thousands of football players who are medal winners. A lot of them not very good players or remotely memorable!

I get the argument you're making. But you have to look at the reverse as well.

There isn't one player I can think of who will be remembered as great who didn't win at least a domestic cup and, to be fair, pretty much all of them won league titles or Champions Leagues. Kane will not be remembered as a great with just goalscoring records IMO.

So not every player who won trophies was great. But every great player has won trophies and usually important ones.

 

[SpurMeUp]

I get the argument you're making. But you have to look at the reverse as well.

There isn't one player I can think of who will be remembered as great who didn't win at least a domestic cup and, to be fair, pretty much all of them won league titles or Champions Leagues. Kane will not be remembered as a great with just goalscoring records IMO.

So not every player who won trophies was great. But every great player has won trophies and usually important ones.

You wouldn’t consider Kane one of the elite? Despite the stats to suggest otherwise?

 

[Gutter Boy]

Judging by the list of elites we’re discussing - Greaves, Shearer, Kane - I think they are/will be remembered far more than <insert average player name with league medal>.

There are hundreds if not thousands of football players who are medal winners. A lot of them (most) average players and not remotely memorable!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wes_Brown#Honours

 

[Baleforce]

Billy Walker...? I though he was boxer!..

back then, they all were

 

[DeanoAustin]

You wouldn’t consider Kane one of the elite? Despite the stats to suggest otherwise?

Name me one elite player who has never won a trophy? In fact, name one who has never one a league title, WC, Euro or CL?

 

[SpurMeUp]

Name me one elite player who has never won a trophy? In fact, name one who has never one a league title, WC, Euro or CL?

Harry Kane.


Or at least he would be if he tops the PL goal scoring charts. But as GB showed, Wes Brown has an outstanding haul of honours. Does it make him elite or memorable? No of course not. If he were the CB with the best tackles completed stats and clean sheets (but no honours) I am sure we would consider him elite. Ledley for example. The stats just back up the reality that they are an extremely unique player.

 

[Jurgen the German]

You wouldn’t consider Kane one of the elite? Despite the stats to suggest otherwise?

One of the elite for sure. Not THE elite though IMO. I find it cringey when Flav Bateman always says on Twitter that Kane is better than Thierry Henry. As much as I can’t stand Henry, as well as being a massive clam he was a brilliant player, not just a goalscorer but a wonderful creative player and it’s just embarrassing when Flav claims Kane is better with his zero trophies compared to everything Henry has won in the game, even taking into account Henry’s poor record in finals.

 

[Baleforce]

Name me one elite player who has never won a trophy? In fact, name one who has never one a league title, WC, Euro or CL?

up until two months ago, Lamela was in that group too

 

[Baleforce]

Haynes
Signiro
Finney

just throwing names out there

 

[DeanoAustin]

Harry Kane.


Or at least he would be if he tops the PL goal scoring charts. But as GB showed, Wes Brown has an outstanding haul of honours. Does it make him elite or memorable? No of course not. If he were the CB with the beat tackles and clean sheets I am sure we would consider him elite. The stats just back up the reality that they are an extremely unique player.

Can't agree. The number of trophies obviously doesn't define a players' greatness. Like you say, Wes Brown, Djimi Traore and so on have more than Kane or Son but they clearly weren't better players.

But records alone won't do. Kane has to win something. Miroslav Klose was a good player but I'd never have considered him elite. He has the most goals in World Cups. More than Messi, more than the Ronaldos, more than Pele, more than Maradona. Would I mention his name in that company? Would I f**k?

If Harry stayed with us and broke the record and never won a thing, there would always be a question mark over him. His inability to produce in big games - you even see people on here using that as a stick to beat him with. Great players produce in big games. Great players win things. Harry needs to win things.

 

[Yiddo]

Name me one elite player who has never won a trophy? In fact, name one who has never one a league title, WC, Euro or CL?

But these players are only classed as Elite because they played for Elite teams and surrounded by Elite players. The majority of them would not have achieved anywhere near what Kane has from a personal perspective if they were in the same position. A player should be judge on his individual performances and teams should be judged on trophies won.

You could probably make a list of players who have won Champions League finals who never actually contributed to these wins. If an Elite striker won the champions league but never contributed throughout the knockout stage, should they be classed as a great for winning a Champions league title? Its a team effort not an individual effort.

 

[DeanoAustin]

up until two months ago, Lamela was in that group too

Haha have to give you that one. For brickhousery, that post is Lamela-esque. Well played sir.

 

[SpurMeUp]

One of the elite for sure. Not THE elite though IMO. I find it cringey when Flav Bateman always says on Twitter that Kane is better than Thierry Henry. As much as I can’t stand Henry, as well as being a massive clam he was a brilliant player, not just a goalscorer but a wonderful creative player and it’s just embarrassing when Flav claims Kane is better with his zero trophies compared to everything Henry has won in the game, even taking into account Henry’s poor record in finals.

Isn’t the point you strip out the third variables to assess a players ability? Just look at them in ability alone. Don’t take into consideration the team etc. just their individual abilities. Doing that Kane would probably come out favourably.

Although you could argue he has had teams built around him at Spurs too.

All told, goal scoring is highly individual. We know from stats and our own eyes Kane converts an extremely high level of chances which is backed up by his stats. If he became the highest scorer in the PL era anyone trying to argue he is not elite is going to struggle.

 

[DeanoAustin]

But these players are only classed as Elite because they played for Elite teams and surrounded by Elite players. The majority of them would not have achieved anywhere near what Kane has from a personal perspective if they were in the same position. A player should be judge on his individual performances and teams should be judged on trophies won.

You could probably make a list of players who have won Champions League finals who never actually contributed to these wins. If an Elite striker won the champions league but never contributed throughout the group stage, should they be classed as a great for winning a Champions league title? Its a team effort not an individual effort.

That's a bit of whataboutery. Give me an example.

 

[AdamB]

Can't agree. The number of trophies obviously doesn't define a players' greatness.

Contrary is true too.

If Harry ends up with 80-100 England goals its hard to say that he's not a great player when he could have almost double the number of goals as any other England player in history

 

[We are Tottenham]

For whom? Greaves plyed 516 league games in the top flight. Shearer played 559.

showed how good he was...all those farm yard pitches..+ playing in italy..getting yellow jaundice in which he said made him slowe after the desease...being as tinkled as fart..and retiring early..

what a player!

 

[SpurMeUp]

Can't agree. The number of trophies obviously doesn't define a players' greatness. Like you say, Wes Brown, Djimi Traore and so on have more than Kane or Son but they clearly weren't better players.

But records alone won't do. Kane has to win something. Miroslav Klose was a good player but I'd never have considered him elite. He has the most goals in World Cups. More than Messi, more than the Ronaldos, more than Pele, more than Maradona. Would I mention his name in that company? Would I f**k?

If Harry stayed with us and broke the record and never won a thing, there would always be a question mark over him. His inability to produce in big games - you even see people on here using that as a stick to beat him with. Great players produce in big games. Great players win things. Harry needs to win things.

What is winning a league or a cup historically anyway? Isn’t it just a record?

A cup competition played every 4 years is a far cry from a league record.

Klose has the medals - he’s won cups and league titles - by your logic you should then consider him elite! He doesn’t have a Bundusleaga top scorer record.

 

[DeanoAustin]

Contrary is true too.

If Harry ends up with 80-100 England goals its hard to say that he's not a great player when he could have almost double the number of goals as any other England player in history

Robbie Keane has 68 goals for Ireland. He has more than three times as many as the next person down. He scored them for a team that ranged from GHod-awful to reasonably good. As good as Keane was, and I'm a big fan, he'll never be considered one of the all time greats. He also has more medals than Kane.

I'm not trying to bash Kane or be as one dimensional as "whoever wins the most trophies is the best". Kane is one of my favourite players of all time and he's the best I've seen in our shirt. But I do understand why it seems he feels the need to win things and I do understand the argument that says records alone aren't enough.