Glasgow Rangers

[Jordinho]

Re: O/T - Glasgow Rangers go into adminstration

I agree to certain extent, but didn't Leeds do a Rangers to land themselves in their particular predicament?

Yes, but they're paying their dues and working their way back.

What if Barca or Real or Bayern or ManU get tired of playing in their ponds and wants a European Super League instead?

 

[nelto]

Re: O/T - Glasgow Rangers go into adminstration

Yes, but they're paying their dues and working their way back.

What if Barca or Real or Bayern or ManU get tired of playing in their ponds and wants a European Super League instead?

I'm playing Devil's Advocate to a certain extent. Rangers are paying their dues as well. If they started at Conference Level, they would have a long road up the divisions and attracting players wouldn't be easy. But at the end of the day they (and Celtic) would be a much a bigger draw than Wigan, Reading, QPR, Blackpool, however...

A point is that UEFA/FIFA might actually welcome such a move. They have wanted a GB National Team in the past and this could play into their hands.

We could even have a Belfast United team out of the process!

 

[jimmyb]

Re: O/T - Glasgow Rangers go into adminstration

Sorry I just can't see the difference. Surely if you don't want something to be harder, then you'd take whatever opportunity to make it easier.

Better to fail aiming high and all that. I'd back us to beat Rangers and Celtic more often than not.

There's a big difference. Surprised you can't see it, mate.

As things stand, we face a struggle to qualify for the Champions League. We're one of six or seven who should always be in with a shout. Maybe eight or nine, if other big clubs like Saudi Sportswashing Machine and Leeds sort themselves out. Even West Ham, once they move to the Olympic stadium. And who knows which club will be next to benefit from a multi billionaire's munificence?

So we really don't need to make life any more difficult. The Premier League is already keenly competitive enough without artificially making it more competitive.

By contrast, ridding the Premier League of all our genuine competitors would render the winning of it meaningless. A hollow victory.

To say that you are against the former is therefore entirely different to saying that you are for the latter.

 

[Spursalot]

Re: O/T - Glasgow Rangers go into adminstration

I'm playing Devil's Advocate to a certain extent. Rangers are paying their dues as well. If they started at Conference Level, they would have a long road up the divisions and attracting players wouldn't be easy. But at the end of the day they (and Celtic) would be a much a bigger draw than Wigan, Reading, QPR, Blackpool, however...

A point is that UEFA/FIFA might actually welcome such a move. They have wanted a GB National Team in the past and this could play into their hands.

We could even have a Belfast United team out of the process!

That would cause issues no?

They can't enter at conference level simply due to the cost that other teams would have to endure to get there.


Would be unfeasible.

 

[Howard Webb]

Re: O/T - Glasgow Rangers go into adminstration

Rangers' "special circumstances" are only special because they cheated every other Scottish club for years, defaulted on payments to myriad creditors and were consequently and correctly demoted (or, rather, Newco were). They should now be compensated - nay, rewarded? I don't think so.

And yes, mate, I happily concede that self interest lies at the heart of my objection - even if it isn't the only compelling reason. Rangers and Celtic might only be mid table clubs were they to join the Premier League now. But give them Premier League money, Premier League exposure, Premier League commercial clout and, no mistake, they would soon become massive threats not only to us but to every other club in the Premier League. Turkeys voting for Christmas if the Old Firm were ever allowed in.

I don't get this fascination with "big games". If that's what it's all about, then let's forget about parochial national leagues altogether. Let's waste no time and set up a European Super League immediately. Me? I like games against the smaller clubs. Sometimes, they're easier to enjoy. They certainly present different challenges. And, far more important than all of that, those clubs deserve to be where they are. They earned it. They don't deserve to have it taken away from them by two undeserving clubs that don't belong in English football. I'm from a generation that grew up believing in the romance of football. There's less and less of it about these days. Let's not dispense with yet more of it.

Take your point about big games; they are as big as we decide they are as much as the marketing says otherwise. I don't think there should be professional and semi-pro distinction ( put forward by the PL in the form of PL looks after the bigger, money making and therefore designated serious clubs, with everyone below championship level to be governed by the FA and classed as semi pro) handed down by the PL either. I just think the whole package needs adjusting, no more oil sheiks and sugar daddys and evenly distributed TV money so all teams can have the level playing field which romantically I also subscribe to but rarely enjoy. In this model there is no objection to any Scottish sides.

In reality, alot more complicated

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

Re: O/T - Glasgow Rangers go into adminstration

My problem is and i admit to it, im a racist. Never had a problem with the blacks or muslims or any of that lot but i have always hated scots due to the fact every scot i have ever meet as been a ****. I have lived in london and the south east all my life well except for a month a year in latvia. Since i was a little boy every scot i have meet has told me how much they hated the fudging english and how much they hate london, usually while living down here because scotland is so brick there are no jobs.

The thought of having to put up with those scabby scum bags coming down into my country in even bigger numbers makes me sick. For example the is talk of romania and bulgaria residents coming to live in england next year, i think wow thats going to be bad for unemployment but it does not make me angry. But the thought of having rangers fans coming down to london every other week makes me feel sick.

I would like to tell the mods im not saying we should do anything violent to them or anything like that. But i am putting the view across that i absolutely hate and i mean hate all scots and don't want them in my league, the welsh have never been so rude towards us english so i feel no hatred towards them. But the scots they think they are this wonderul country and always go on about looking after themselves, which we all know to be flimflam but if they really believe it let them boast there own league.

Would be the end for me if they came into our league system, i said it last year when we tried to move to stratford and i will say it now if they come in to our league i will be gone.

 

[nelto]

Re: O/T - Glasgow Rangers go into adminstration

That would cause issues no?

They can't enter at conference level simply due to the cost that other teams would have to endure to get there.


Would be unfeasible.

Yeah, I know mate, just messing around really. If Rangers, Celtic and a team from Northern Ireland entered the English Leagues, it would spell the end of the four Home Nations as International Teams. FIFA and UEFA would be all over a Team GB.

 

[Superted]

Re: O/T - Glasgow Rangers go into adminstration

The reason we have to put up with some "lesser" clubs in the PL is the mismanagement of the bigger ones. How do you think the likes of Forest, Wednesday, Leeds etc. feel about yet another club to compete with in their quest for promotions?

Boo hoo to them. That shat in their pond, they can soak in it.

 

[Jordinho]

Re: O/T - Glasgow Rangers go into adminstration

Boo hoo to them. That shat in their pond, they can soak in it.

And this does not apply to Rangers because...?

 

[jimmyb]

Re: O/T - Glasgow Rangers go into adminstration

Boo hoo to them. That shat in their pond, they can soak in it.

Same can be said for Rangers and Celtic, no?

 

[Superted]

Re: O/T - Glasgow Rangers go into adminstration

There's a big difference. Surprised you can't see it, mate.

As things stand, we face a struggle to qualify for the Champions League. We're one of six or seven who should always be in with a shout. Maybe eight or nine, if other big clubs like Saudi Sportswashing Machine and Leeds sort themselves out. Even West Ham, once they move to the Olympic stadium. And who knows which club will be next to benefit from a multi billionaire's munificence?

So we really don't need to make life any more difficult. The Premier League is already keenly competitive enough without artificially making it more competitive.

By contrast, ridding the Premier League of all our genuine competitors would render the winning of it meaningless. A hollow victory.

To say that you are against the former is therefore entirely different to saying that you are for the latter.

Maybe I'm dumbing down your argument a bit much (intentionally mind you ), but I don't think it's a loong stretch to equate not wanting more competitors to a desire to seeing some of those competitors removed.

I genuinely think with Celtic and Rangers in the Premier League, the PL would resume it's rank as the top tier of domestic club football. We've done the added tv revenue argument in here before, others differ, but I think the increase in worldwide following would be significant and this would lead to the alternatives like La Liga and Bundesliga not being as lucrative. I'd expect the players Rangers and Celtic eventually recruit would dilute the talent in the other leagues, not necessarily the talent in the remainder of the PL clubs.

And I also genuinely think Spurs should not fear a cashed up Rangers and Celtic. And maybe I'm a bit idealistic, but part of me would rather battle it out amongst 8 top top class teams each season, and potentially miss out every now and then, than be 1 of 5 or 6.

 

[jimmyb]

Re: O/T - Glasgow Rangers go into adminstration

My problem is and i admit to it, im a racist. Never had a problem with the blacks or muslims or any of that lot but i have always hated scots due to the fact every scot i have ever meet as been a ****. I have lived in london and the south east all my life well except for a month a year in latvia. Since i was a little boy every scot i have meet has told me how much they hated the fudging english and how much they hate london, usually while living down here because scotland is so brick there are no jobs.

The thought of having to put up with those scabby scum bags coming down into my country in even bigger numbers makes me sick. For example the is talk of romania and bulgaria residents coming to live in england next year, i think wow thats going to be bad for unemployment but it does not make me angry. But the thought of having rangers fans coming down to london every other week makes me feel sick.

I would like to tell the mods im not saying we should do anything violent to them or anything like that. But i am putting the view across that i absolutely hate and i mean hate all scots and don't want them in my league, the welsh have never been so rude towards us english so i feel no hatred towards them. But the scots they think they are this wonderul country and always go on about looking after themselves, which we all know to be flimflam but if they really believe it let them boast there own league.

Would be the end for me if they came into our league system, i said it last year when we tried to move to stratford and i will say it now if they come in to our league i will be gone.

Hahaha! Love the way that you say exactly what you're thinking, with no beating about the bush, chich! So long as the subject isn't booing, of course.

I don't feel the same way as you about Scots generally. But I do feel the same way about the Old Firm.

 

[Superted]

Re: O/T - Glasgow Rangers go into adminstration

Same can be said for Rangers and Celtic, no?

I'm not concerned with Rangers insolvency issues, I want to see Rangers and Celtic in for the good of the Premier League. They should work their way up from the conference as well. So they wouldn't be getting any hand up over Leeds, Forest, etc.

 

[Superted]

Re: O/T - Glasgow Rangers go into adminstration

And this does not apply to Rangers because...?

If Rangers were a solvent club without their current issues, I would still hold the same views. Their insolvency issues are irrelevant.

 

[jimmyb]

Re: O/T - Glasgow Rangers go into adminstration

Maybe I'm dumbing down your argument a bit much (intentionally mind you ), but I don't think it's a loong stretch to equate not wanting more competitors to a desire to seeing some of those competitors removed.

I genuinely think with Celtic and Rangers in the Premier League, the PL would resume it's rank as the top tier of domestic club football. We've done the added tv revenue argument in here before, others differ, but I think the increase in worldwide following would be significant and this would lead to the alternatives like La Liga and Bundesliga not being as lucrative. I'd expect the players Rangers and Celtic eventually recruit would dilute the talent in the other leagues, not necessarily the talent in the remainder of the PL clubs.

And I also genuinely think Spurs should not fear a cashed up Rangers and Celtic. And maybe I'm a bit idealistic, but part of me would rather battle it out amongst 8 top top class teams each season, and potentially miss out every now and then, than be 1 of 5 or 6.

It's already more than 5-6, if Everton are included, with plenty more that have the potential to join the elite, if they get their acts together.

It doesn't matter to me whether or not the Premier League is ranked as the top league. So long as it is one of the top leagues (and it will always be so), that's enough. Besides, the Premier League has been the top ranked league before now without Rangers or Celtic. No reason why it couldn't become so again without them. We don't need them.

As to you maybe being idealistic, that's not something you have to worry about, I think, if you're happy to discard smaller clubs that do belong for a couple of big clubs that don't belong!!

 

[Jordinho]

Re: O/T - Glasgow Rangers go into adminstration

They should really start in the Northern League Division Two or something. Why should they get a bye into the Conference?

 

[jimmyb]

Re: O/T - Glasgow Rangers go into adminstration

C'mon jimmyb, there's some lower-level clubs that really don't belong in the top flight, or at least to stay long once they get there. Wigan was cute at first, but now it's kind of sad looking at their half-full house most weeks. It always looked shabby seeing lots of empty seats in Bolton or Blackburn. So much for history, with their fans.

There's a charm to visiting quaint, smaller grounds and that can continue in cup play, but the business of sport is demanding that clubs direct themselves into bigger and more modern stadia to stay competitive in the league. Similarly, the PL wants to see this happen because they wish to keep pushing the value of their TV contract higher, to say nothing of fielding the strongest possible sides in order to maintain four teams in Champions League play.

This is a cycle that can't be reversed. There aren't that many new free stadia to offer as upgrades, such as Emirates Marketing Project has received or West Ham will. The simplest way is to add an already established club with a top notch, high-capacity ground and a large market to support them. Rangers-Saudi Sportswashing Machine would be far more compelling viewing for neutral viewers, anywhere in the world, than say, Reading-Saudi Sportswashing Machine.

Let Rangers give it a go from the bottom tier. Make their presence contingent on strict codes of conduct by their fans. It will bring a lot of fizz to the lower ranks for a while. By the time they're ready for admittance to the Premier League, we'll all have had a chance to see how they've behaved and how the logistics work. If it's clear they've got something to add, then upward and onward. If not, then the deal's undone.

How Celtic's situation would be handled is anyone's guess. Same run up the same ladder would be fair. Maybe a year or two after Rangers just to keep the two sides apart for a while.

Okay, we'll just have to agree to disagree.

I don't care about every club having a top notch stadium or capacity crowds week in week out. Nor do I care about pushing the value of TV contracts ever higher. I don't even care about the Premier League maintaining four CL places if the only way that it can achieve such an aim is to strengthen the league artificially by importing big clubs from other countries. And I certainly don't care which matches a neutral in Kuala Lumpur or San Diego would find more compelling. There are some things that should not be sacrificed in the pursuit of mammon.

 

[monkeybarry]

Re: O/T - Glasgow Rangers go into adminstration

C'mon jimmyb, there's some lower-level clubs that really don't belong in the top flight, or at least to stay long once they get there. Wigan was cute at first, but now it's kind of sad looking at their half-full house most weeks. It always looked shabby seeing lots of empty seats in Bolton or Blackburn. So much for history, with their fans.

There's a charm to visiting quaint, smaller grounds and that can continue in cup play, but the business of sport is demanding that clubs direct themselves into bigger and more modern stadia to stay competitive in the league. Similarly, the PL wants to see this happen because they wish to keep pushing the value of their TV contract higher, to say nothing of fielding the strongest possible sides in order to maintain four teams in Champions League play.

This is a cycle that can't be reversed. There aren't that many new free stadia to offer as upgrades, such as Emirates Marketing Project has received or West Ham will. The simplest way is to add an already established club with a top notch, high-capacity ground and a large market to support them. Rangers-Saudi Sportswashing Machine would be far more compelling viewing for neutral viewers, anywhere in the world, than say, Reading-Saudi Sportswashing Machine.

Let Rangers give it a go from the bottom tier. Make their presence contingent on strict codes of conduct by their fans. It will bring a lot of fizz to the lower ranks for a while. By the time they're ready for admittance to the Premier League, we'll all have had a chance to see how they've behaved and how the logistics work. If it's clear they've got something to add, then upward and onward. If not, then the deal's undone.

How Celtic's situation would be handled is anyone's guess. Same run up the same ladder would be fair. Maybe a year or two after Rangers just to keep the two sides apart for a while.

Where you drawing the line?
Bu your definition rangers and Celtic can join as they are commercial enough.

Hearts and Aberdeen are big enough to 'enhance' the championship.
Going to let them join?

When does the English lge system stop being based on sporting achievement and simply dictated by commercialism?

 

[greatwhitenorf]

Re: O/T - Glasgow Rangers go into adminstration

Okay, we'll just have to agree to disagree.

I don't care about every club having a top notch stadium or capacity crowds week in week out. Nor do I care about pushing the value of TV contracts ever higher. I don't even care about the Premier League maintaining four CL places if the only way that it can achieve such an aim is to strengthen the league artificially by importing big clubs from other countries. And I certainly don't care which matches a neutral in Kuala Lumpur or San Diego would find more compelling. There are some things that should not be sacrificed in the pursuit of mammon.

Richard 'The Mammonheart' Scudamore might take issue. Should it become necessary to push that policy in order to maintain TV revenue levels to PL clubs, then they might think differently about new arrivals.

It's a competitive world and I'm sure they look at how clubs in Germany or Spain or France are moving into fine new facilities and wonder if they're doing enough to ensure the PL stays on top.

It's a shame that the two Scottish giants come with all that sectarian baggage. If it were only a matter of dealing with non-religion aligned clubs playing out of, say, Hampden and Murrayfield, the issue might be a lot more palatable.

 

[firefly]

Re: O/T - Glasgow Rangers go into adminstration

When did the English lge system stop being based on sporting achievement and simply dictated by commercialism?

Precisely in 1919.