Glasgow Rangers

[firefly]

Re: O/T - Glasgow Rangers go into adminstration

The difference between Wrexham and Rangers is quite simple. While Scotland is much bigger than Wales it can sustain a reasonable number of professional football clubs to form a league. Wales does not have this opportunity. The only option for a Welsh club to play football professionally is to join an English league.

 

[jts1882]

Re: O/T - Glasgow Rangers go into adminstration

I was going to type an answer as to why Rangers/Celtic enterring the EPL wouldn't mean Porto/Ajax etc wouldn't follow suit, but you did it yourself in the last paragraph.

So Rangers and Celtic "ruined" the SPL by being too successful? Too popular?? How exactly did they ruin it (because it is ruined compared to the previous success and status it enjoyed).

The success of Celtic and Rangers didn't ruin the Scottish League, it helped build it. What ruined it was how they used their power to squeeze the other clubs financially, taking a third of the TV money, etc. They were bullies, which is why so many people are enjoying Rangers' current plight.

It's the reason why Swansea is in the EPL. Why Wellington is in the A League. Why Monaco is in the French League. Why Montreal is in the MLS.

Their home country cannot sustain a league big enough for their team.

The reason that Swansea are in the PL is history. The Welsh clubs didn't have their own league to join so joined some of the leagues in England. Cardiff, Swansea, Newport and Merthyr Town joined the Southern League (and possibly the Western League), Wrexham joined the Combination. At the time none of the leagues were national leagues. Even the Football League was only the North and the Midlands, with a single outpost in Woolwich. They never had an incentive to create their own national league (the current one is recent). So Welsh club football is intertwined with English football and has been from the start.

The Scottish clubs could have followed a similar path. They had played in the FA Cup, with Queens Park making the final a couple of times. But as the leagues began to form, the Scottish clubs set up their own league and stopped playing in the FA Cup. They chose to go their own way.

Rangers and Celtic outgrew their leagues decades ago.

Some may say Rangers caused their own downfall. Others may say it was just them trying to keep up with a Europe growing richer in a league growing poorer. If 2 big fish keep growing in a shrinking pond, sooner or later it will run out of oxygen.

Clearly their plight is a mixture of both. The Portuguese and Dutch leagues have suffered a similar fate with the growth of the big european leagues. But these leagues have maintained their appeal. The big clubs haven't sucked the oxygen out of the league. Benfica, Ajax, etc are big clubs, way out of proportion to their leagues, but they haven't destroyed the competitiveness of the league through their greed.

If changes in football are to mean Scotland rejoining the English system, then it should be as a whole. Merge the Scottish leagues into the football pyramid. A lot of the objection to accepting Rangers and Celtic is because they are trying to escape a situation they helped create.

 

[DubaiSpur]

Re: O/T - Glasgow Rangers go into adminstration

The success of Celtic and Rangers didn't ruin the Scottish League, it helped build it. What ruined it was how they used their power to squeeze the other clubs financially, taking a third of the TV money, etc. They were bullies, which is why so many people are enjoying Rangers' current plight.



The reason that Swansea are in the PL is history. The Welsh clubs didn't have their own league to join so joined some of the leagues in England. Cardiff, Swansea, Newport and Merthyr Town joined the Southern League (and possibly the Western League), Wrexham joined the Combination. At the time none of the leagues were national leagues. Even the Football League was only the North and the Midlands, with a single outpost in Woolwich. They never had an incentive to create their own national league (the current one is recent). So Welsh club football is intertwined with English football and has been from the start.

The Scottish clubs could have followed a similar path. They had played in the FA Cup, with Queens Park making the final a couple of times. But as the leagues began to form, the Scottish clubs set up their own league and stopped playing in the FA Cup. They chose to go their own way.




Clearly their plight is a mixture of both. The Portuguese and Dutch leagues have suffered a similar fate with the growth of the big european leagues. But these leagues have maintained their appeal. The big clubs haven't sucked the oxygen out of the league. Benfica, Ajax, etc are big clubs, way out of proportion to their leagues, but they haven't destroyed the competitiveness of the league through their greed.

If changes in football are to mean Scotland rejoining the English system, then it should be as a whole. Merge the Scottish leagues into the football pyramid. A lot of the objection to accepting Rangers and Celtic is because they are trying to escape a situation they helped create.

A superb post. Hopefully that clears up any remaining doubts.

 

[Jordinho]

Re: O/T - Glasgow Rangers go into adminstration

The company which runs Rangers Football Club faces the prospect of a winding-up order over an unpaid bill, despite denials from the club.

BBC Scotland understands no agreement has been reached between Rangers and a Singapore based company, Orlit Enterprises.

That is despite a spokesperson for Rangers saying a deal had been reached subject to paperwork.

It is thought two disputed bills amount to around £400,000.

BBC Scotland understands Orlit Enterprises are investigating the possibility of raising a winding up order against the company which currently runs Rangers within the next seven to 10 days, if the dispute continues.

Orlit Enterprises is run by the Singapore-based businessman Chan Fook Meng. He is a former business associate of the current Rangers chief executive Charles Green.

Mr Green is a former chairman of Mr Chan's company, Nova Enterprises. That company is also linked to current Rangers finance director Brian Stockbridge, who was an advisor during his time at the stockbrokers Allenby Capital when it was called Tembusu Investments Ltd.

The BBC spoke to Mr Chan from Singapore this morning. He offered no comment on the matter. Nova Enterprises' UK solicitors Pritchard Englefield said they couldn't comment on any of their clients.

Allenby Capital told the BBC their company is not involved in this dispute and they have no interest in Rangers Football Club.

In a statement Rangers said the "the sums sought are insignificant", an agreement over payment had been reached and there was "no threat to the Club whatsoever".

The dispute does not concern the "old-co" RFC 2012 plc which was liquidated after Charles Green's consortium bought the assets of the football club out of administration in 2012.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-21370477

 

[onlyme]

Re: O/T - Glasgow Rangers go into adminstration

The success of Celtic and Rangers didn't ruin the Scottish League, it helped build it. What ruined it was how they used their power to squeeze the other clubs financially.

Clearly their plight is a mixture of both. The Portuguese and Dutch leagues have suffered a similar fate with the growth of the big european leagues. But these leagues have maintained their appeal. The big clubs haven't sucked the oxygen out of the league. Benfica, Ajax, etc are big clubs, way out of proportion to their leagues, but they haven't destroyed the competitiveness of the league through their greed.

If changes in football are to mean Scotland rejoining the English system, then it should be as a whole. Merge the Scottish leagues into the football pyramid. A lot of the objection to accepting Rangers and Celtic is because they are trying to escape a situation they helped create.

It's all about the money. Celtic have reached the knockout rounds and this season they will rake it in. Next season..who knows.
It depresses me listening to the football results every Saturday. Why the fudge do I have to listen to resuts and updates from Scottish Division 3 with 6 teams in it?
And yet I would love to be hearing about Celtic-Liverpool or Rangers-Spurs rather than United-Wigan

 

[Baleforce]

Re: O/T - Glasgow Rangers go into adminstration

doh, used search and posted in the wrong thread

 

[Jordinho]

Re: O/T - Glasgow Rangers go into adminstration

Plans to restructure Scottish football are on hold after St Mirren and Ross County voted against the proposed changes.

An 11-1 majority was needed at Monday's vote and St Mirren chairman Stewart Gilmour had already stated he was not going to be supporting the restructuring.

With other clubs having publicly backed the changes, most believed Staggies chairman Roy MacGregor would be the deciding voter, and his no vote tilted the balance towards retaining the status quo.

The proposed plans would have seen Scottish football move to a three-division structure, perhaps as early as next season, with two leagues of 12 teams and one of 18.

The top two divisions would then have split further into three eight-team leagues for the final third of the season to increase the number of meaningful games with more promotion and relegation issues to be decided.

The decision means that the current four-division 12-10-10-10-team structure will remain in place next season, much to the disappointment of Aberdeen chairman Stewart Milne.

Milne, one of the chief advocates of the changes, gave an emotional interview outside Hampden Park, where he said: "This is going to have major implications for Scottish football.

"These are going to start flowing through in the short-term and I can see other implications in the medium-term and it is going to potentially seriously damage the game in the long-term.

"What was on the table for everyone to consider today was back the plan, an opportunity to move Scottish football forward. If it doesn't deliver to the extent that 10 clubs genuinely believe it will deliver, then the opportunity is there to re-look at it down the line within two to three years.

"I'm very angry and I think today we have let down Scottish football. St Mirren Football Club have got to go and pose the question 'why are they prepared to put the rest of Scottish football in jeopardy just because of their own selfish interests which they have been unable to explain in reasonable terms to people around the table today.

"There were tense periods within the meeting and a lot of honest debate went on, which is needed. The decision has been made, we've got the current structure and we've got to look what we can do to improve that to find a more effective way forward.

"This is a massive, massive opportunity that has been blown, particularly on the whims of one individual club. I think everyone else was angry at the attitude that he (Gilmour) adopted. He's not prepared to look at the rest of Scottish football.

"We all have our responsibility when we are in that room for our own clubs, but we have a wider responsibility to the SPL as an organisation to have an interest in and wider Scottish football - none of that was displayed by Stuart Gilmour and St Mirren today."

http://www.teamtalk.com/scottish-premier/8641987/St-Mirren-and-Ross-County-vote-against-proposed-changes-to-Scottish-football

Yes, Scottish football needs changing, but restructuring the top divisions into some strange setup where you switch divisions halfway through the season isn't the only possibility or likely to improve the game in any way.

 

[spurs' magna carter]

Re: O/T - Glasgow Rangers go into adminstration

I guess it could be one of those that in theory seems complex but be good in practice, the problem is though Scotland is a small country with the same population as Denmark (5 mil) where two clubs have had the lion's share of pretty much everything on and off the field for the past 100 years with 96 league titles and 68 FA cups between them. I'd keep it simple reducing the it to two professional tiers of 16 and then get rid of all those in Div 3 and create a new non-league set up. Seriously though, nearly half the number of professional teams England has (92) in a country that has a population which is one tenth the size of England's, is that necessary?

I hope it improves though, current the system is an absolute shocker.

 

[IbroxSpurs]

Re: O/T - Glasgow Rangers go into adminstration

Disappointed to see such hatred of Rangers on this forum whenever I've been to games at WHL always get chatting and from the people I've talked to always seemed as though there was a soft spot towards rangers

 

[lynneb]

Re: O/T - Glasgow Rangers go into adminstration

Unfortunately I have only had bad experiences of Rangers supporters. Both preseason friendlies. The first was mid 80's and they started infiltrating and then fighting in the East lower, where I was with my kid brother and my mum. The second was early 00's Robbie Keane gets injured at Ibrox, then spat upon as he was stretchers off around the pitch

 

[chicken_badge]

Re: O/T - Glasgow Rangers go into adminstration

Disappointed to see such hatred of Rangers on this forum whenever I've been to games at WHL always get chatting and from the people I've talked to always seemed as though there was a soft spot towards rangers

I think this is perhaps to do with links between rival clubs.
I was under the impression that Celtic and Arsenal had a reasonable informal link amongst fans at the least, possibly due to a relatively high proportion of Irish in both previous players and fans. However, I think there is a stronger link between Rangers and Chelsea, and we're not talking about the family stand either.

Though I did go to the Spurs-Celtic-Barca-Zamalek? pre-season tournament at Wembley in 2009 and remember seeing a Spurs fan taunting the Celtic crowd with a Rangers shirt :lol:

 

[chancer]

Re: O/T - Glasgow Rangers go into adminstration

Disappointed to see such hatred of Rangers on this forum whenever I've been to games at WHL always get chatting and from the people I've talked to always seemed as though there was a soft spot towards rangers

In fairness IbroxSpurs, there are plenty of harsh words towards Celtic here too. I think a lot of people are turned off by the more extreme elements at both clubs.

 

[Logorrhea]

Re: O/T - Glasgow Rangers go into adminstration

Yep, and Rangers are still the better story at the moment. Though thats more out of morbid interest than for footballing reasons.

 

[IbroxSpurs]

Re: O/T - Glasgow Rangers go into adminstration

Don't get me wrong there's d**kheads in the rangers support but there's them at every club but honestly can't recall Robbie keane getting spat at wouldn't of been the most liked person because of his Celtic roots but spitting? Certain fans follow Chelsea as well but it's a small minority, there's a Tottenham hotspur appreciation thread on follow follow the rangers forum

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

Re: O/T - Glasgow Rangers go into adminstration

Don't get me wrong there's d**kheads in the rangers support but there's them at every club but honestly can't recall Robbie keane getting spat at wouldn't of been the most liked person because of his Celtic roots but spitting? Certain fans follow Chelsea as well but it's a small minority, there's a Tottenham hotspur appreciation thread on follow follow the rangers forum

I do not hate rangers or celtic, i hate scottish people. There obession with the english the constant ****ging of england and london usually from people that have moved down here, it is why i hate the scots.

Hate is ok if you do not act on it and do anything illegal. I see more and more hatred of the scots and i applaud it and do all i can to encourage it. Celtic and rangers mean no more to me then Lille or Anderlecht.

 

[Naughton16]

Re: O/T - Glasgow Rangers go into adminstration

I do not hate rangers or celtic, i hate scottish people. There obession with the english the constant ****ging of england and london usually from people that have moved down here, it is why i hate the scots.

Hate is ok if you do not act on it and do anything illegal. I see more and more hatred of the scots and i applaud it and do all i can to encourage it. Celtic and rangers mean no more to me then Lille or Anderlecht.

I've lived many years in England and Scotland. Always found far more hatred toward Scots from English than vice versa.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

Re: O/T - Glasgow Rangers go into adminstration

I've lived many years in England and Scotland. Always found far more hatred toward Scots from English than vice versa.

Quite possibly, i have never lived in scotland but have worked on so many building sites where many labourers were ****ging off and moaning about the english, not to forget their politicans seem to be constantly ****ging off the english.

Scotland with its great universities has a lot to be proud of, i just hope they vote for independence so we can look forward to a normal relationship and the scots can stop being so obessed with us english.

I do wonder if the english fit in better because they try to assimilate to scotland instead of doing what the jocks do down here where they are confrontational argumentative and boring bullys.

As for celtic or rangers joining our league system, always about the money with those GHod damn jocks.

 

[IbroxSpurs]

Re: O/T - Glasgow Rangers go into adminstration

Quite possibly, i have never lived in scotland but have worked on so many building sites where many labourers were ****ging off and moaning about the english, not to forget their politicans seem to be constantly ****ging off the english.

Scotland with its great universities has a lot to be proud of, i just hope they vote for independence so we can look forward to a normal relationship and the scots can stop being so obessed with us english.

I do wonder if the english fit in better because they try to assimilate to scotland instead of doing what the jocks do down here where they are confrontational argumentative and boring bullys.

As for celtic or rangers joining our league system, always about the money with those GHod damn jocks.

Did a Scottish fella steal your woman or something?

Always about the money? you not witnessed the transfer fees these days unfortunately everything is about money

 

[greatwhitenorf]

Re: O/T - Glasgow Rangers go into adminstration

Hate's an extreme emotion. I don't hate anyone. Sure, there's cultures and creeds I have trouble relating to in an empathetic fashion, but I hate no one. I never use the word 'hate'. The Nazis hated and acted upon that emotion. I don't and never will.

As for Scotland, they have more in common with England than any other European cultures. And vice versa. You'll only appreciate that once your in a fix within a culture completely remote from Britain. Then you'll be delighted to hear voices spoken in an accent that you can completely and comfortably relate to.

Enough with the hating ****. Life's too short for that schit.

 

[Jordinho]

Re: O/T - Glasgow Rangers go into adminstration

Rangers chairman David Somers has admitted that 'material uncertainty' over season ticket income may cast doubt about the club’s ability to continue as a going concern, as the Ibrox outfit announced its cash reserves fell by more than £17.5million last year.

Rangers announced a loss of £3.7million in the seven months up to the end of 2013, an improvement of 50 per cent on the same period 12 months earlier.

But they had just £3.5million cash on December 31, despite bringing in £22million in an initial public offering (IPO) share issue just over a year earlier.

The main Rangers supporters’ groups recently raised the possibility of drip-feeding season-ticket money to the club via a trust fund amid continuing distrust over the board’s ability and intentions.

And the club, who recently arranged loans totalling £1.5million from two shareholders, admits that casts a shadow over the club’s immediate future.

In the interim report, Somers said: 'This possibility results in the existence of a material uncertainty which may cast doubt about Rangers’ ability to continue as a going concern and therefore that the company may be unable to realise its assets and discharge its liabilities in the normal course of business.

'Nevertheless, after making the appropriate enquiries and considering the uncertainties referred to above, the directors have concluded that there is a reasonable expectation that the company has adequate resources to continue in operational existence for the foreseeable future. Accordingly, the directors continue to adopt the going concern basis in preparing the interim results.'

Earlier this month, the Union of Fans, which incorporates all of the main Rangers supporters’ groups, urged fans to put season ticket money into a trust, from which it would only be released to the club when assurances were met, including security over Ibrox and the Murray Park training ground.

The club’s independent auditor, Deloitte, stated the uncertainty might cast 'significant' doubt over the club’s ability to continue as a going concern.

The club have made assumptions including that they 'modestly' increase their season-ticket numbers, which stood at 36,000 in League One, next season and beyond.

The improvement in financial performance is in large part down to increased retail sales with the club reporting its partnership with Sports Direct was worth £4.8million in the seven months, up from £900,000.

Revenue was up 38 per cent to £13.2million, however operating expenses also increased slightly to £16.8million.

Staff costs were down £800,000 to £7.5million but the club pointed out that £500,000 was spent on severance payments.

Somers and chief executive Graham Wallace came in towards the end of the period and the latter is conducting a 120-day review of the business, and they explained some of the spending that meant cash reserves fell from £21.2million in a year.

Somers said: 'The majority of the money raised from the IPO in December 2012 had been spent by June 2013 on IPO related fees and commissions, severance payments, the purchases of the Albion car park and Edmiston House and to fund ongoing operating losses.

'The club incurred a further £7.7m of cash expenditure in the six months to 31 December 2013, funding additional fixed asset purchases and operating losses. In total the club has spent over £4m on fixed assets since the IPO that are not yet generating incremental revenue.'

Somers admitted operating costs had been unsustainable.

'For example, in the period under review, nine players were signed at a time when the club already had the second highest wage bill in Scottish football whilst playing in the third tier,' he added.

Wallace gave little detail in the report about his review, although he declared “excellent progress” and said he would outline his vision for the club 'in the near future'.

Wallace added: 'The past several months have unearthed many adverse legacy issues requiring considerable time, effort and resource to address and resolve.

'These issues have impacted the club’s ability to make progress quickly on the rebuilding process.

'There still remain a number of matters that are being resolved so that effort can be fully applied to growing and developing the club to deliver future success.'

Meanwhile, the club detailed possible legal action by Craig Whyte in the 'contingent liabilities' of the report, but stated they had not had any correspondence from the former Rangers owner since May.

Whyte had claimed he was deprived of a legitimate interest in the new company which rose from the ashes of the club he pushed towards liquidation, but Rangers say his claim is 'entirely unsubstantiated based on legal advice'.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2590593/Rangers-announce-new-loss-3-7m-financial-troubles-continue-Ibrox.html