Gareth Bale

[DubaiSpur]

Re: Gareth Bale

It could very well have made the difference, however it could also have failed to make the difference.


It would definitely on the other hand have reduced the value of the club in terms of future sales. A business that requires capital investment to remain competitive is not going to be worth as much as one that is self sufficient.


(Also one point wouldn't have gotten us there )

Two points. #-o

As for reducing the value of the club, it isn't exactly like ENIC are planning on selling up right away. In all likelihood they'll wait for the stadium to go up, which would increase the value of the club and earn them a bigger pay-off when they do make the sale.

Using the most optimistic projection (Which holds that we'll start construction this summer), the stadium's completion is still three to four seasons away. Now, you cannot possibly expect an interested buyer to march up to ENIC four years from now and say 'Yes, I know the team got Champions League football in 2013-2014, and I know they have a young, exciting squad, and I know they represent a great opportunity to up my profile, and I know they're based in London, and I know they have a self-financed, gleaming new stadium and training ground, but DAMMIT, you spent 15 million that ONE time on Leandro Damiao, so thanks but no thanks, you're selling shoddy merchandise.'

 

[billyiddo]

Re: Gareth Bale

So an investment could very well have made us immensely competitive against the teams above us. I'm not suggesting we should have asked big Joe for one , but don't assume that it's pointless for him to invest because the gap is so wide between us and the clubs above us. It isn't.

it's pointless for him to invest was more my point as i don't believe the financial rewards would be there for him to make any sizable money back just through a one off investment in the transfer market of 50m (which was the original hypothetical amount) - like i said in a previous post, for a continued run in the CL and thereby a sustained rise in finances we'd need more at this point than just one summers investment. whatever we spend in one summer our opponents can dwarf - so where is the incentive for him to invest his own money - too much of a risk, imv - especially when we can reinvest the money we make as a club and continue to improve to the level required without him having to take a financial risk himself

 

[Spursalot]

Re: Gareth Bale

Two points. #-o

As for reducing the value of the club, it isn't exactly like ENIC are planning on selling up right away. In all likelihood they'll wait for the stadium to go up, which would increase the value of the club and earn them a bigger pay-off when they do make the sale.

Using the most optimistic projection (Which holds that we'll start construction this summer), the stadium's completion is still three to four seasons away. Now, you cannot possibly expect an interested buyer to march up to ENIC four years from now and say 'Yes, I know the team got Champions League football in 2013-2014, and I know they have a young, exciting squad, and I know they represent a great opportunity to up my profile, and I know they're based in London, and I know they have a self-financed, gleaming new stadium and training ground, but DAMMIT, you spent 15 million that ONE time on Leandro Damiao, so thanks but no thanks, you're selling shoddy merchandise.'

It's more a floodgates issue though. If you do buy Leandro for the club, then what happens when the fans are no longer happy with that and start demanding more?

It would definitely happen.

It does not make financial sense for Lewis to spend that 15m. He will be down £15m and in the long term it won't have affected the club. Another season in the CL won't suddenly make us a more attractive prospect than Arsenal or any of the other top teams. Only consistent appearances would make any significant difference.

 

[Rossi22]

Re: Gareth Bale

Football is really brick when you think about it, I want to quit but I can't. Where the fudge is the fairness in Chelsea spending £222.5m net in three years to finish three points above us when we've spent minus £11.3m.

 

[DubaiSpur]

Re: Gareth Bale

it's pointless for him to invest was more my point as i don't believe the financial rewards would be there for him to make any sizable money back just through a one off investment in the transfer market of 50m (which was the original hypothetical amount) - like i said in a previous post, for a continued run in the CL and thereby a sustained rise in finances we'd need more at this point than just one summers investment. whatever we spend in one summer our opponents can dwarf - so where is the incentive for him to invest his own money - too much of a risk, imv - especially when we can reinvest the money we make as a club and continue to improve to the level required without him having to take a financial risk himself

Hmm. But you're assuming that we need a sustained run in the CL to generate a bigger profit for him when he does sell up, correct? Hence your projection of a 50 million net spend, presumably. But I don't think we do. I think just one more season of CL would increase our revenues, global profile and appeal enough to net him a return on his investment regardless of whether we qualify for the CL after that. Last time we made it, our sponsorship deals increased in value, our global visibility increased (especially on television: we got more time allotted to our games in the States and Canada, for example) and we became a viable destination for players like Rafa and Ade, players whose profile would have made us insignificant to them pre-CL. I'm even of the opinion that Under Armour wouldn't have gone near us had we not had a CL campaign under our belts.

The same thing could happen with one more season. We could keep Bale for another year (beyond 2014, I mean), sign players without the hassle we currently have to go through, negotiate our naming rights deal from a stronger position (as semi-regular CL participants, as opposed to one-timers) and boost our overseas revenues yet again, crucial if we want to fully take advantage of the new TV deals coming in.

Now, all that could be done with just one 15-30 million pound investment by Lewis. One marquee player. Because it's not like we don't have any funds without him: sell Hdudlestone, BAE, Parker and the other players that AVB deems unimportant and we could raise anywhere up to 35-odd million in transfer fees and wages saved, enough for a good AM and a young striker, in my book. All we need from Lewis is one little push to give us that marquee frontman.

It's not a lot to ask, it's not inconceivable, it's ambition. It can be done, if he wants to. And it doesn't involve selling our star man because one of the big boys came over and demanded we hand him over to them.

 

[billyiddo]

Re: Gareth Bale

I think just one more season of CL would increase our revenues, global profile and appeal enough to net him a return on his investment regardless of whether we qualify for the CL after that.

that doesn't marry up with our finances from the season we did have CL football under Redknapp - increased income but also increased expenditure - why would one more season alone change that? we will still be dwarfed financially by our rivals who, as modern football dictates, will sooner rather than later be able to spend themselves back in front of us and we'll be shunted back out and we'll be having the same discussion again - why doesn't Lewis pump in another X amount of money, 3rd time is the charm after all . . .

we have shown ourselves capable of building a good team worthy of challenging for the top 4 without outside investment - no need to deviate from this approach, imv

 

[DubaiSpur]

Re: Gareth Bale

Oh, and as an add-on, I doubt a one-off investment would even weigh that heavily against our bottom line. UEFA allows a 40 million pound loss over four years, if I remember correctly. Ignoring the very real possibility that all that Lewis spends could be recouped by the club in CL money and renegotiated deals, as long as we continue our balanced financial policy after Lewis invests, we would still fall well within Fair Play guidelines.

It's just a thought. We don't need to sell Bale to compete.

 

[DubaiSpur]

Re: Gareth Bale

that doesn't marry up with our finances from the season we did have CL football under Redknapp - increased income but also increased expenditure - why would one more season alone change that?

Because he's not taking money out of the club, he's taking his cut when ENIC sell up. So a lot of his potential profit depends on the profile of the club, which will affect how much the buyer is prepared to pay. And you cannot deny that in terms of negotiating deals, signing players and getting more TV time, our profile went up during that CL run.

 

[COYS]

Re: Gareth Bale

Lloris
Walker Kaboul Vertonghen Coentrao
Cabaye Sandro Dembele
Bale Damiao Villa​

Title contending?

Say AVB wanted those four players, others can be sold to cover some of the outlay. A £40m net spend won't turn us into Pompey and even if it didn't work out then Bale would be sold at the end of it anyway, but at least we'd have given it a decent shot. If we're not going to spend then we may as well cash in on Bale now while his price is at its peak.

Real Madrid will categorically refuse to give us any of their players unless we give them Bale

 

[Spursalot]

Re: Gareth Bale

Because he's not taking money out of the club, he's taking his cut when ENIC sell up. So a lot of his potential profit depends on the profile of the club, which will affect how much the buyer is prepared to pay. And you cannot deny that in terms of negotiating deals, signing players and getting more TV time, our profile went up during that CL run.

I would disagree.


A lot of his potential profit depends on the stadium being completed. The club will be valued far far higher when the new stadium is completed and ENIC could probably sell at that point to make a large profit.


Our profile could increase that profit, but i doubt it would do so significantly with a single Champions League run, simply because we are a club that everyone already knows about.

 

[DubaiSpur]

Re: Gareth Bale

I would disagree.


A lot of his potential profit depends on the stadium being completed. The club will be valued far far higher when the new stadium is completed and ENIC could probably sell at that point to make a large profit.


Our profile could increase that profit, but i doubt it would do so significantly with a single Champions League run, simply because we are a club that everyone already knows about.

No, we are not. I travel a lot, and most of the time my Spurs shirt goes utterly unnoticed, even in football crowds full of Chelsea, Liverpool, United and Arsenal jerseys. The few times it is noticed all people seem to know about Spurs is that Bale plays here. Very few people know about us, can name our squad or can remember our history.

Outside of the UK, I suspect we are almost unknown. The only reason we're getting recognized a little more than we were for most of the PL era is because of that CL run, and the subsequent marketing campaigns launched by the club aimed at North America and developed markets.

 

[DubaiSpur]

Re: Gareth Bale

Real Madrid will categorically refuse to give us any of their players unless we give them Bale

This. Pointless talking about Madrid players, they aren't going to sell to us unless it's in an exchange deal for Bale. Same goes for Chelsea, I suspect, after the Modric madness.

 

[billyiddo]

Re: Gareth Bale

Because he's not taking money out of the club, he's taking his cut when ENIC sell up. So a lot of his potential profit depends on the profile of the club, which will affect how much the buyer is prepared to pay. And you cannot deny that in terms of negotiating deals, signing players and getting more TV time, our profile went up during that CL run.

all the more reason for him to not put his own money in.

 

[DubaiSpur]

Re: Gareth Bale

all the more reason for him to not put his own money in.

Eh. If he can make a bigger profit by selling the club at a higher price due to us having another CL campaign under our belts, then I would argue that there is every reason for him to put his money in. Whether that is the case is a question that is open to debate, though I personally believe that it is.

 

[billyiddo]

Re: Gareth Bale

Eh. If he can make a bigger profit by selling the club at a higher price due to us having another CL campaign under our belts, then I would argue that there is every reason for him to put his money in. Whether that is the case is a question that is open to debate, though I personally believe that it is.

i edited my post before your reply...

enic own 85% of spurs
lewis owns 70% of enic

= around 60% stake in Spurs for Lewis? any rise in valuation that another season in the CL would bring would have to be quite large for a 50m investment from Lewis to be considered worthwhile - ie 60% of that rise in valuation would have to be north of his hypothetical investment for him to 'make a profit' from it.


fudging hell, when did football become so complicated :ross:

 

[AVB]

Re: Gareth Bale

This. Pointless talking about Madrid players, they aren't going to sell to us unless it's in an exchange deal for Bale. Same goes for Chelsea, I suspect, after the Modric madness.

Errrrm surely that puts us in a stronger position
Levy: were not selling bale this season but if you want first refusal next season were gonna need a player of yours this season

 

[Spursalot]

Re: Gareth Bale

i edited my post before your reply...

enic own 85% of spurs
lewis owns 70% of enic

= around 60% stake in Spurs for Lewis? any rise in valuation that another season in the CL would bring would have to be quite large for a 50m investment from Lewis to be considered worthwhile - ie 60% of that rise in valuation would have to be north of his hypothetical investment for him to 'make a profit' from it.


fudging hell, when did football become so complicated :ross:

We're no longer really discussing football, it's more business at this stage.


Because we're all fudging bored and it's summer.

 

[billyiddo]

Re: Gareth Bale

yeah sorry about that :lol:

 

[DubaiSpur]

Re: Gareth Bale

i edited my post before your reply...

enic own 85% of spurs
lewis owns 70% of enic

= around 60% stake in Spurs for Lewis? any rise in valuation that another season in the CL would bring would have to be quite large for a 50m investment from Lewis to be considered worthwhile - ie 60% of that rise in valuation would have to be north of his hypothetical investment for him to 'make a profit' from it.


fudging hell, when did football become so complicated :ross:

Ball. Net. Goal.

Tactics, managers, stadiums, fans, training grounds, Bosman rulings, ownership structures, sponsorship deals, profit margins, balance sheets.

Bloody football.

So, if he puts in 50 million quid, it would have to entail a rise in the price of the club of 90+ million pounds for him to earn a profit out of it. Now, you have to ask yourself: did our last run in the CL raise the value of the club by 90 million pounds? To do that, you'd have to look at the difference between pre-CL and post CL sponsorship deals, the kit deal, our TV allocations, and our prize money earnings, and try to figure that out. MY gut says yes, although my gut is not necessarily the most mathematically-inclined.

 

[Rossi22]

Re: Gareth Bale

Imagine if all clubs had to start from scratch and all had to work within the same financial limits. We'd boss it and Chelsea would be screwed.