Fraser Forster

[thfcsteff]

United thought that with their keeper and they paid decent money for him… he is the reason we are through and Forster actual save form the header is too
He made mistakes… hey it happens

Agreed. A shame that somehow it's Ange's fault though (sigh)...

 

[Muttley]

Disagree 100%.
We were shutting that game down very effectively at 3-0, in fact it was beginning to resemble the Soton second-half.
As for the moment you're describing re: Porro, that does not happen if the two stupid mistakes do not send jitters throughout the side - a tired side I might add.
He withdrew Maddison and got Bergvall on. He had no-one else!!!!
I could not disagree more with your 'pollution' line at the end. If Forster keeps his head (or even his goal in those two moments) then none of it happens.

(our love affair could not last LOL)

So you're telling me that the pre-Spurs Forster wouldn't have just put his foot through both of those balls.

Seriously?

Forster was never a tippy, tappy keeper when he played for Norwich, Celtic, Saudi Sportswashing Machine, Saints etc. In fact, he was overlooked by England for not being a "modern" keeper.

Let's be honest, he just needed to clear his lines and 5 years ago there would not have been a doubt in his mind what to do. We would still be 3-0 up now.

Ange said last season that replacements need to do it their own way. Can he walk the talk on that based on what we're seeing?

Not for me.

 

[tommysvr]

So you're telling me that the pre-Spurs Forster wouldn't have just put his foot through both of those balls.

Seriously?

Forster was never a tippy, tappy keeper when he played for Norwich, Celtic, Saudi Sportswashing Machine, Saints etc. In fact, he was overlooked by England for not being a "modern" keeper.

Let's be honest, he just needed to clear his lines and 5 years ago there would not have been a doubt in his mind what to do. We would still be 3-0 up now.

Ange said last season that replacements need to do it their own way. Can he walk the talk on that based on what we're seeing?

Not for me.

Ange instructs players to play out from the back. No doubt about it. But these are on Forster. First one, it was a terrible pass (probably poor angles from receiving players too.)

The second one is just Forster completely over thinking it, bricking himself and basically freezing in the moment. He had so much time to get rid of it before Amad even got there. If you think Ange tells him to wait until the last possible moment to get rid, then maybe that's why you'd blame him.

As far as I can tell, way too many people still think Ange is playing subbuteo with his players.

 

[thfcsteff]

So you're telling me that the pre-Spurs Forster wouldn't have just put his foot through both of those balls.

Seriously?

Forster was never a tippy, tappy keeper when he played for Norwich, Celtic, Saudi Sportswashing Machine, Saints etc. In fact, he was overlooked by England for not being a "modern" keeper.

Let's be honest, he just needed to clear his lines and 5 years ago there would not have been a doubt in his mind what to do. We would still be 3-0 up now.

Ange said last season that replacements need to do it their own way. Can he walk the talk on that based on what we're seeing?

Not for me.

Yes.
HE needed to make decisions. As a senior pro he should've.
Instead he froze.
Tonight, the mistakes were Forster's fault.
He'll bounce back and be fine I'm sure.

 

[El Guepardo]

We need to let him go long to Solanke against Liverpool or we could be in all types of problem. Liverpool press high so we can’t make risky passes at the back or we’ll be giving up many goals. Solanke may need to drop slightly deeper for this do as to mitigate the risk of being beaten in the air by VVD

 

[braineclipse]

Changing how the goalkeeper plays to the point that Forster plays with no risk of this kind of thing happen would mean a rather large change of how we play overall. Would make us much easier to press.

I don't think it's worth it, unless Forster again is as nervous as he became after the second goal last night.

These mistakes happen. Very rarely twice in quick succession, but they happen. Move on, do what we do.

 

[thfcsteff]

We need to let him go long to Solanke against Liverpool or we could be in all types of problem. Liverpool press high so we can’t make risky passes at the back or we’ll be giving up many goals. Solanke may need to drop slightly deeper for this do as to mitigate the risk of being beaten in the air by VVD

I could not disagree more!

Why does everyone suddenly appear to think that punting long towards Solanke's head is going to be a better plan on Sunday? We've trained and practiced this way for 18-19 months, and suddenly - because Forster has a wobbler of a second-half- we're going to rip it up and change the way we do things?

IF we were to do the above, we would simply end up handing the ball back to Liverpool and allow them to attack us in waves. We would, effectively, be giving up possession needlessly twice as much of the time.

IMO, we play the way we play and rely on Forster - an experienced player - to not have the same horror spell again.

 

[Sandman]

Changing how the goalkeeper plays to the point that Forster plays with no risk of this kind of thing happen would mean a rather large change of how we play overall. Would make us much easier to press.

I don't think it's worth it, unless Forster again is as nervous as he became after the second goal last night.

These mistakes happen. Very rarely twice in quick succession, but they happen. Move on, do what we do.

I kind of agree with you. But lets be honest. Liverpool will have watched that game and look to exploit it, any pass back to him now will be very heavily hounded. What can we do in the short term? tweak our tactics as its a game we will not dominate possession. Will we do that though? I doubt it with Ange.

Forster is not a keeper that suits this system at all, he can get away with it against lesser teams who we push back or even mid level. But the better pressing sides will be at him.

It might no be in Jan but we do need a backup keeper that is better suited to this style of playing out from the back.

 

[NaijaSpurs]

I couldn't be more angrier with Ange right now. We have a 36 year old keeper who knows instinctively what to do in both of those situations when you're 3-0 up. 5 years ago, Forster would have just done the right thing. In tonight's game it was so clear that he's had his head polluted with the BS from Ange's coaching staff and thinks he needs to be an Ederson in those moments.

The reason those 2 goals went in were down to the manager and his fanaticism on how this simple game should be played.

I hope Forster ignores his manager and the coaching staff from this point onwards and goes back to the way he used to keep goal. Fraser should be as angry as I am with Ange tonight.

Ange needs to find that winning "do what it takes" mentality at this level. Tonight he got away with it.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and in my opinion you are spouting utter nonsense.

 

[harr1984]

I couldn't be more angrier with Ange right now. We have a 36 year old keeper who knows instinctively what to do in both of those situations when you're 3-0 up. 5 years ago, Forster would have just done the right thing. In tonight's game it was so clear that he's had his head polluted with the BS from Ange's coaching staff and thinks he needs to be an Ederson in those moments.

The reason those 2 goals went in were down to the manager and his fanaticism on how this simple game should be played.

I hope Forster ignores his manager and the coaching staff from this point onwards and goes back to the way he used to keep goal. Fraser should be as angry as I am with Ange tonight.

Ange needs to find that winning "do what it takes" mentality at this level. Tonight he got away with it.

Jesus he's not a fudging kid, if he's passed the ball and an attacker is literally right on him as he's receiving the ball then I think Ange would be ok with him hitting it long. Like Carragher said, your players sometimes need to make in game decisions themselves (and he wasn't just talking about Foster but the fact we was playing it around the goal area like that in the first place) and if you need your manager to hold your hand for every decision you make then we have problems.....

 

[Benny_Lad]

I could not disagree more!

Why does everyone suddenly appear to think that punting long towards Solanke's head is going to be a better plan on Sunday? We've trained and practiced this way for 18-19 months, and suddenly - because Forster has a wobbler of a second-half- we're going to rip it up and change the way we do things?

IF we were to do the above, we would simply end up handing the ball back to Liverpool and allow them to attack us in waves. We would, effectively, be giving up possession needlessly twice as much of the time.

IMO, we play the way we play and rely on Forster - an experienced player - to not have the same horror spell again.

I tend to agree (with you). Even after last nights Shenanigans, Forster went long and got a big cheer….and no sooner had the cheer finished the ball was back with United’s defenders and we were on the back foot again.

For me it’s all about balance. Clearly we are a better team and retain more possession when playing out. However, you have to sense danger and manage each situation accordingly. If you find yourself playing 5 yard one-twos from your own goal line then it might be time to give it a whack!

Also - people seem to have rolled the 2nd one in with the 1st one. The 2nd one he was actually going long….just very very slowly, almost in slow motion. He needs to speed up what he does, whether it’s playing out or playing long.

VVD will gobble up anything long on Sunday so we have to be brave. If it doesn’t work and we lose then it’s because they are better.

Last point - you need the midfield to show when playing out. I thought ours went a bit quiet last night just as Utd began to press. That left Forster with only the defenders as options.

 

[braineclipse]

I kind of agree with you. But lets be honest. Liverpool will have watched that game and look to exploit it, any pass back to him now will be very heavily hounded. What can we do in the short term? tweak our tactics as its a game we will not dominate possession. Will we do that though? I doubt it with Ange.

Forster is not a keeper that suits this system at all, he can get away with it against lesser teams who we push back or even mid level. But the better pressing sides will be at him.

It might no be in Jan but we do need a backup keeper that is better suited to this style of playing out from the back.

I think we're gonna struggle massively in the Liverpool game whatever we do.

If they want to press more on balls back to Forster, fine. Someone make themselves available for a pass and play our game.

 

[braineclipse]

I could not disagree more!

Why does everyone suddenly appear to think that punting long towards Solanke's head is going to be a better plan on Sunday? We've trained and practiced this way for 18-19 months, and suddenly - because Forster has a wobbler of a second-half- we're going to rip it up and change the way we do things?

IF we were to do the above, we would simply end up handing the ball back to Liverpool and allow them to attack us in waves. We would, effectively, be giving up possession needlessly twice as much of the time.

IMO, we play the way we play and rely on Forster - an experienced player - to not have the same horror spell again.

Spot on. Play our game. Do our thing.

Defending against waves of pressure, sustained pressure over time most certainly also comes with a risk. Would have against United, will against Liverpool. Let's accept the risk of our system.

 

[thfcsteff]

Spot on. Play our game. Do our thing.

Defending against waves of pressure, sustained pressure over time most certainly also comes with a risk. Would have against United, will against Liverpool. Let's accept the risk of our system.

I think it becomes a case of comprehending the differences between what we're seeing, what lazy pundits and journos are TELLING us what we're seeing, and the realities of what we will continue to do.

I am still flabbergasted that anyone, let alone pundits, thinks last night's issues came from some 'relentless inability to defend a lead because we're always going helter-skelter forwards and don't know when to shut up shop.' I mean, it's actually absurd. We were 3-0 up, comfortably maintaining possession, comfortably in control of the game, and doing the opposite of trying to monster high-press United. Two individual errors caused the wobbles. As you reinforced, going long, sitting deeper and defending would've invited undue pressure AND been the first time we'd have specifically done that in Ange's era.

That isn't to say we haven't started to be smarter and close out situations under Ange. We saw it this past weekend, and we're learning more and more how to manage games. Even last night at 3-2, we took fouls, we spent a little more time on the deck, we made sure rhythm was broken up and slowed down a bit.

And yes, agreed, accept the risks of our system and take the ride, because as long as he's here, this is who we are. I like it, because when everyone's fit and we upgrade a couple of areas, I think it will dominate.

 

[El Guepardo]

I could not disagree more!

Why does everyone suddenly appear to think that punting long towards Solanke's head is going to be a better plan on Sunday? We've trained and practiced this way for 18-19 months, and suddenly - because Forster has a wobbler of a second-half- we're going to rip it up and change the way we do things?

IF we were to do the above, we would simply end up handing the ball back to Liverpool and allow them to attack us in waves. We would, effectively, be giving up possession needlessly twice as much of the time.

IMO, we play the way we play and rely on Forster - an experienced player - to not have the same horror spell again.

I could not disagree more!

Why does everyone suddenly appear to think that punting long towards Solanke's head is going to be a better plan on Sunday? We've trained and practiced this way for 18-19 months, and suddenly - because Forster has a wobbler of a second-half- we're going to rip it up and change the way we do things?

IF we were to do the above, we would simply end up handing the ball back to Liverpool and allow them to attack us in waves. We would, effectively, be giving up possession needlessly twice as much of the time.

IMO, we play the way we play and rely on Forster - an experienced player - to not have the same horror spell again.

We trained 18-19 months with Vicario and evidently the wrong people believed that he was unbreakable given that we don’t have a competent understudy that can play as a sweeper keeper and can play with the ball at their feet.

Unfortunately Vicario was injured and they were proved wrong. We then saw last night Forster double down on how he is not suitable to be playing the shorter game, especially when Dragusin also struggles with that game.

It’s not really an expecting a player not to have a horror show again if you ask him to play a role that really does not suit his qualities. He can be a good shot stopper and has made a number of good saves coming in. He just seems clueless with the ball at his feet.

Long as we play the long ball well then why can’t we play a game where Solanke wins the long punt, knocks it down to Maddison or Kulusevski etc and then we have possession high up the pitch and can be straight on the attack? You seem to have assumed that we will keep handing the ball back to Liverpool? Whereas if you see Liverpool’s goals this season they have often won possession high up and scored due to a defensive mistake by the opposition when they were in possession. Look at the first goal that Southampton gave Liverpool.


M

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I think it becomes a case of comprehending the differences between what we're seeing, what lazy pundits and journos are TELLING us what we're seeing, and the realities of what we will continue to do.

I am still flabbergasted that anyone, let alone pundits, thinks last night's issues came from some 'relentless inability to defend a lead because we're always going helter-skelter forwards and don't know when to shut up shop.' I mean, it's actually absurd. We were 3-0 up, comfortably maintaining possession, comfortably in control of the game, and doing the opposite of trying to monster high-press United. Two individual errors caused the wobbles. As you reinforced, going long, sitting deeper and defending would've invited undue pressure AND been the first time we'd have specifically done that in Ange's era.

That isn't to say we haven't started to be smarter and close out situations under Ange. We saw it this past weekend, and we're learning more and more how to manage games. Even last night at 3-2, we took fouls, we spent a little more time on the deck, we made sure rhythm was broken up and slowed down a bit.

And yes, agreed, accept the risks of our system and take the ride, because as long as he's here, this is who we are. I like it, because when everyone's fit and we upgrade a couple of areas, I think it will dominate.

United first shot on target was the header on 63 mins
They were taking pot shots
Fosters error… his first since coming in was the only reason they scored
It happens
We have seen more suited players to Ange ball do similar levels of fudge up and we still carry on
What we should focus on is how well that defence was doing imo considering we only had one real defender
It’s cup football and brick happens when teams have to go for it

 

[thfcsteff]

We trained 18-19 months with Vicario and evidently the wrong people believed that he was unbreakable given that we don’t have a competent understudy that can play as a sweeper keeper and can play with the ball at their feet.

Unfortunately Vicario was injured and they were proved wrong. We then saw last night Forster double down on how he is not suitable to be playing the shorter game, especially when Dragusin also struggles with that game.

It’s not really an expecting a player not to have a horror show again if you ask him to play a role that really does not suit his qualities. He can be a good shot stopper and has made a number of good saves coming in. He just seems clueless with the ball at his feet.

Long as we play the long ball well then why can’t we play a game where Solanke wins the long punt, knocks it down to Maddison or Kulusevski etc and then we have possession high up the pitch and can be straight on the attack? You seem to have assumed that we will keep handing the ball back to Liverpool? Whereas if you see Liverpool’s goals this season they have often won possession high up and scored due to a defensive mistake by the opposition when they were in possession. Look at the first goal that Southampton gave Liverpool.


M

Thing is, Forster's mistakes last night came at moments where he had arguably more time to execute a simple pass than during any of his previous matches this season. I genuinely think he lost his focus/concentration and it led to the second mistake. The guy's not played week in week out regular football for several years. It is very possible he lost his way.

Mate, bless if you think that we can regain more possession by lumping it to Solanke to win his duals with VD consistently and knock it down to Maddison or Deki. I think this would be disasterous personally, and result in us getting battered. Who'd be a manager, eh?

 

[braineclipse]

I think it becomes a case of comprehending the differences between what we're seeing, what lazy pundits and journos are TELLING us what we're seeing, and the realities of what we will continue to do.

I am still flabbergasted that anyone, let alone pundits, thinks last night's issues came from some 'relentless inability to defend a lead because we're always going helter-skelter forwards and don't know when to shut up shop.' I mean, it's actually absurd. We were 3-0 up, comfortably maintaining possession, comfortably in control of the game, and doing the opposite of trying to monster high-press United. Two individual errors caused the wobbles. As you reinforced, going long, sitting deeper and defending would've invited undue pressure AND been the first time we'd have specifically done that in Ange's era.

That isn't to say we haven't started to be smarter and close out situations under Ange. We saw it this past weekend, and we're learning more and more how to manage games. Even last night at 3-2, we took fouls, we spent a little more time on the deck, we made sure rhythm was broken up and slowed down a bit.

And yes, agreed, accept the risks of our system and take the ride, because as long as he's here, this is who we are. I like it, because when everyone's fit and we upgrade a couple of areas, I think it will dominate.

Fully agreed. We defended more in a mid block in the last 15-20 minutes of the first half, and after a while in the second half.

Thought we did well to manage the game. Slow it down at times, take some time for throw ins and set pieces. But managing a game like this also includes playing it back to the keeper at times and have him play with his feet. Not doing so would be really bad.

 

[thfcsteff]

Fully agreed. We defended more in a mid block in the last 15-20 minutes of the first half, and after a while in the second half.

Thought we did well to manage the game. Slow it down at times, take some time for throw ins and set pieces. But managing a game like this also includes playing it back to the keeper at times and have him play with his feet. Not doing so would be really bad.

Exactly!
Why are so few people refusing to see it? Why do so many people -including pundits- immediately resort to lazy hack cliches about who we are and what we do? It's actually weird.

 

[braineclipse]

We trained 18-19 months with Vicario and evidently the wrong people believed that he was unbreakable given that we don’t have a competent understudy that can play as a sweeper keeper and can play with the ball at their feet.

Unfortunately Vicario was injured and they were proved wrong. We then saw last night Forster double down on how he is not suitable to be playing the shorter game, especially when Dragusin also struggles with that game.

It’s not really an expecting a player not to have a horror show again if you ask him to play a role that really does not suit his qualities. He can be a good shot stopper and has made a number of good saves coming in. He just seems clueless with the ball at his feet.

Long as we play the long ball well then why can’t we play a game where Solanke wins the long punt, knocks it down to Maddison or Kulusevski etc and then we have possession high up the pitch and can be straight on the attack? You seem to have assumed that we will keep handing the ball back to Liverpool? Whereas if you see Liverpool’s goals this season they have often won possession high up and scored due to a defensive mistake by the opposition when they were in possession. Look at the first goal that Southampton gave Liverpool.


M

This was not the first time he's been closed down and played out. That's been what he's been doing all along.

He obviously looked clueless in those two situations because of how it went. He's obviously not great with the ball at his feet, but he's not actually clueless. He's mostly been fine up until those two situations.