FOBTs

[Roy1983]

Exactly. She'd leave me if she knew the half of it. If you started with £100 and won £120 next time the £120 becomes £144 which becomes £172.80 etc.. It requires discipline but is the only way.

 

[Roy1983]

These machines are fixed odds as shown on their welcome screen.

The guy I know from my local bookies can tell the machines that pay at certain times of the day and when I did use to play them he would often be right.

They are not completley random. They always take in more than they pay out. You are correct however, no system will beat them but it comes down to more chance of the time of play than anything else.

Sorry buddy but this is totally wrong. I personally don't believe they are random but as for the machines paying more at a certain time then no that's wrong.

 

[philspursuk]

My brother in law has succumbed to these machines, a very similar story by the sounds of it to others on here. His parents started running a Pub - he worked there full time. Ladbrookes 1 min walk away. Thats how it started and then pretty soon as soon as he'd get his wages he would empty the lot in there in a matter of minutes. Every now and again he would proudly tell everyone he's won £1400. He used to love coming to ours and asking us to stash some money "for holiday" or something else only to beg to have it back a day or 2 later. I shudder to think how much he has lost as Im sure he would but what I see is alot of avoidance in fronting the problem. That must be the same for any addiction though !!

 

[spursman17]

Not one bit of blame with the gambler themselves? I'm sorry but when I hear stories of people winning thousands then gambling it all
Away to try and win more in my eyes that ain't a physical addiction that's just plain up greediness! Something I think our society suffers a lot from at the moment.

Sorry but I don't buy that.

The adrenaline and addiction has been proven to be similar of that when on drugs.

I know someone who lost his house, family and business because of gambling. A person like that to me and you would be brandished an idiot and crazy. For him himself to get into that position to lose everything he ever worked for indicates it's far worse than a decision whether to gamble or not.

I know gamblers who agree these FOBM's should be banned from the high street even though they regularly play them. They are like a drug as shown in recent panorama programs.

 

[spursman17]

Sorry buddy but this is totally wrong. I personally don't believe they are random but as for the machines paying more at a certain time then no that's wrong.

I disagree. I know people who work behind the counter and from previous experience the chances of winning when advised by him when to play resulted in far more success.

4 machines in the shop and he knew from his computer the one taking in cash and the ones paying out.

Fixed 100% and based on how much they take in. Hence why these machines are the driving force behind profit for the bookmakers. They take in far more than they pay out.

 

[Richie]

I disagree. I know people who work behind the counter and from previous experience the chances of winning when advised by him when to play resulted in far more success.

4 machines in the shop and he knew from his computer the one taking in cash and the ones paying out.

Fixed 100% and based on how much they take in. Hence why these machines are the driving force behind profit for the bookmakers. They take in far more than they pay out.

I'm not too sure if this is true, because the simple fact that the machine has fixed odds means it will pay out a fixed amount over the long term. With a game of chance like Roulette you don't need to program it to pay out at specific times, the simple fact that it uses fixed odds means that will happen anyway. It could be nothing more than confirmation bias on the part of your friend.

For example, if I paid out 4/5 on the flip of a fair coin (i.e. 50/50), that would be a fixed odds payout of 80%. I wouldn't need to do anything special, just program the odds and over the long term the payout will match the odds.

This is why there is no system for Roulette as much as people like to believe there is. You can't beat the house, because the odds you get on the bet are less than the actual odds of the number coming up.

 

[Roy1983]

I disagree. I know people who work behind the counter and from previous experience the chances of winning when advised by him when to play resulted in far more success.

4 machines in the shop and he knew from his computer the one taking in cash and the ones paying out.

Fixed 100% and based on how much they take in. Hence why these machines are the driving force behind profit for the bookmakers. They take in far more than they pay out.

Sorry bud but I've worked with them since they came in. If you've been told anything it's pure luck nothing more.

 

[spursman17]

Sorry bud but I've worked with them since they came in. If you've been told anything it's pure luck nothing more.

I disagree.

When I used to play I would travel 10 miles to go to a bookies where I knew the guy. Most of the time I would ring him before hand to see if they were paying.

Of the past 7 times I had went he told me what machine to play and each time I turned £50 (or a close amount) to £400 minimum apart from one time when I was in the area and popped in and he said to me do not play, they are not paying and love and behold I ignored him and didn't even get a descent number and I poured £200 in that day.

100% fixed, completley computerised and only pay when they decide it's time to pay, sorry fella.

 

[GlennGoddle]

Anything computerised is fixed.

If anyone thinks the odds they get on a roulette machine is equal to that in a casino where the ball is spun infront of you,they're thick.

A casino wheel is pure luck. Something controlled by a "brain" that will let you win when it wants is not.

 

[Richie]

Anything computerised is fixed.

If anyone thinks the odds they get on a roulette machine is equal to that in a casino where the ball is spun infront of you,they're thick.

A casino wheel is pure luck. Something controlled by a "brain" that will let you win when it wants is not.

It makes absolutly no sense to program a roulette wheel this way. In fact, it is almost certainly detrimental because it would be much, much simpler to hack a computer system designed in this way. If there is a command that tells the machine to pay out, all a hacker would have to do is find a way to activate such a command on demand. The security implications of such a system are numerous and dangerous, and give absolutly no benefit to the owner of the machine.

I suspect any claim that somebody knows when a machine is going to pay out is purely based on confirmation bias. They are simply favouring information that confirms their hypothesis.

A perfect example is the other day my mate was playing blackjack online. He was up about £20, and out it all on a single hand which he then lost. Of course then he claims "oh it's rigged, it made me lose because I put on a bigger bet" but it's all nonsense. It's just the nature of gambling.

I'm very confident that if you look at the long term results of these machines, they will exhibit behaviour that correlates with the fixed odds.

 

[Richie]

Furthermore, real roulette wheels are far more likely to exhibit bias than what is effectively a pseudo-random number generator on a computer. Any slight imperfections in the production of a roulette wheel can lead to bias which can be taken advantage of, but in software it is much less of a problem.

 

[dawaxman]

Added to the fact that a professional croupier can 'fix' live roulette much more easily than you think...they spin the wheel knowing it will turn a certain number of times, same thing applies to the ball, and whilst they can't out it on a specific number with any amount of accuracy, they can definitely avoid an area of the wheel if there are big bets on certain numbers....

 

[dawaxman]

Put* it on a specific number....

 

[GlennGoddle]

Added to the fact that a professional croupier can 'fix' live roulette much more easily than you think...they spin the wheel knowing it will turn a certain number of times, same thing applies to the ball, and whilst they can't out it on a specific number with any amount of accuracy, they can definitely avoid an area of the wheel if there are big bets on certain numbers....

Correct indeed.

But anyone who places a huge amount of chips on a table before the ball has been spun is a mug. I have had some huge nights in a casino playing roulette. Pot luck,mostly. But I never stick my chips on the table until the croupier has released the ball. If i pick the wrong numbers,that's tough brick.

I usually play £5 chips and anything I win goes aside. Keep playing with what I can afford to "lose" on that given night. I remember 1 night cashing in about 1800 - 3 jd + cokes worth - and upon leaving,found a lovely black and white 25 in my pocket that I must have missed when it came to cashing out....instead of going back to cash it,I stuck it on 27....I was walking away looking back at the table...what do you know,27. Cue laughter and another £900. You DO NOT get that sort of randomness playing a machine. Unless or course you or the geezer before you has done a grand or more in it.

 

[GlennGoddle]

It makes absolutly no sense to program a roulette wheel this way. In fact, it is almost certainly detrimental because it would be much, much simpler to hack a computer system designed in this way. If there is a command that tells the machine to pay out, all a hacker would have to do is find a way to activate such a command on demand. The security implications of such a system are numerous and dangerous, and give absolutly no benefit to the owner of the machine.

I suspect any claim that somebody knows when a machine is going to pay out is purely based on confirmation bias. They are simply favouring information that confirms their hypothesis.

A perfect example is the other day my mate was playing blackjack online. He was up about £20, and out it all on a single hand which he then lost. Of course then he claims "oh it's rigged, it made me lose because I put on a bigger bet" but it's all nonsense. It's just the nature of gambling.

I'm very confident that if you look at the long term results of these machines, they will exhibit behaviour that correlates with the fixed odds.

You reckon?

Over what amount of time? Do you think if you went into Ladbrokes and done a score a day for a year,you'd have a return to the amount of the odds these machines say they give? Not a chance.

The odds MIGHT be what they say after it's been pumped to the point it simply HAS to pay out. The same as a fruity when the hoppers are full etc

 

[Richie]

You reckon?

Over what amount of time? Do you think if you went into Ladbrokes and done a score a day for a year,you'd have a return to the amount of the odds these machines say they give? Not a chance.

The odds MIGHT be what they say after it's been pumped to the point it simply HAS to pay out. The same as a fruity when the hoppers are full etc

But that makes absolutly no sense for them to do. I'm doing research in computer security and I'm telling you, it would be very dangerous for the machine to have any kind of function that tells it to pay out, the risks just don't out weigh the benefits.

Funnily enough as part of my research I also deal with pseudo random number generation and the maths behind it, there's absolutly no reason for the machine to work in the way you are suggesting. If it pays out to the odds it should (which I have no reason to believe it doesnt), there's absolutly nothing to gain from designing the system the way you claim and everything to lose in security risks.

 

[elyid]

It makes absolutly no sense to program a roulette wheel this way. In fact, it is almost certainly detrimental because it would be much, much simpler to hack a computer system designed in this way. If there is a command that tells the machine to pay out, all a hacker would have to do is find a way to activate such a command on demand. The security implications of such a system are numerous and dangerous, and give absolutly no benefit to the owner of the machine.

I suspect any claim that somebody knows when a machine is going to pay out is purely based on confirmation bias. They are simply favouring information that confirms their hypothesis.

A perfect example is the other day my mate was playing blackjack online. He was up about £20, and out it all on a single hand which he then lost. Of course then he claims "oh it's rigged, it made me lose because I put on a bigger bet" but it's all nonsense. It's just the nature of gambling.

I'm very confident that if you look at the long term results of these machines, they will exhibit behaviour that correlates with the fixed odds.

I live near Gibraltar (where there are lots of gaming companies) and have met quite a few people who work in the teams that design and build these (and similar) machines.

A lot of what you say matches my understanding, especially the parts in bold - as they 100% absolutely have to ensure the machine matches the fixed odds over a period of time, otherwise if the machine is randomly tested they are totally ****ed.

However, they spend a lot of time and money programming the fixed odds algorithms, much more than would be needed to simply make it work. I have been told that the reason is to try to encourage "extended" play using the size, frequency and type of bet as a guide to slightly adjust what happens i.e. In v simple terms, having periods of losses, followed by a large winning streak is more likely to make an exciting game and encourage people to come back than just paying out 90% constantly.

If this is true then over time the payout will be 90% (or whatever fixed odds are on the machine) but each spin is not completely random.

 

[Modric THFC]

But that makes absolutly no sense for them to do. I'm doing research in computer security and I'm telling you, it would be very dangerous for the machine to have any kind of function that tells it to pay out, the risks just don't out weigh the benefits.

Funnily enough as part of my research I also deal with pseudo random number generation and the maths behind it, there's absolutly no reason for the machine to work in the way you are suggesting. If it pays out to the odds it should (which I have no reason to believe it doesnt), there's absolutly nothing to gain from designing the system the way you claim and everything to lose in security risks.

I believe if it was a true simulation of roulette it would only be legal to have in a casino.
I'm pretty sure whether you win or not has nothing to do with the rules of roulette. They just use an illusion of roulette to show you the results.

Pretending to play roulette is much more exciting then say a simple screen with a "place a 35/1 bet" on it and then "you lose" or "you win" coming up a nanosecond later. That i believe is the actual game you are playing with fobts.

 

[GlennGoddle]

But that makes absolutly no sense for them to do. I'm doing research in computer security and I'm telling you, it would be very dangerous for the machine to have any kind of function that tells it to pay out, the risks just don't out weigh the benefits.

Funnily enough as part of my research I also deal with pseudo random number generation and the maths behind it, there's absolutly no reason for the machine to work in the way you are suggesting. If it pays out to the odds it should (which I have no reason to believe it doesnt), there's absolutly nothing to gain from designing the system the way you claim and everything to lose in security risks.

Maximum profits says otherwise.

It's like a fruity in a pub,It'll drop you a jackpot when it's ready to. Look at the amount of money people lose on these machines,they can't all be unlucky.

Online roulette too. 1 big con. Virtual football,virtual dogs etc...con.

 

[Modric THFC]

Maximum profits says otherwise.

It's like a fruity in a pub,It'll drop you a jackpot when it's ready to. Look at the amount of money people lose on these machines,they can't all be unlucky.

Online roulette too. 1 big con. Virtual football,virtual dogs etc...con.

Its not exactly a con but people believe they are gambling based on how they think the game works when in fact it works another way.
The problem is it the psychological trickery that goes into this. It really is about manipulating the psychological triggers for addiction.