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ENIC

Grays_1890 said:
Yep, they either can't or won't put their own money in

Thing is, if you borrow against future income, that needs to be paid back, so the money won't be there in future unless you continue to do the same thing. But then to what point? 90m only buys you 3/4 of a player who changes this club
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It's risky. But the cl is such a massive thing to be in. They probably looked at the squad and how we finished last season and thought (as i did) that we're not getting in the cl again unless we make big changes.
Manager gone. Levy gone. 4 big signings that walk into the first 11. Now we have a good chance of getting in there again. Hopefully another trophy aswell.

If it works brilliant. If not the cl money pays that loan anyway.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
100%
As I’ve said loads, the naive fan base will lap it up as money in but all super short term and IMO clearly to cover costs (transfer debt is my guess)
It’s business but as you say, it’s less money to spend and also is typically at huge rates like a bridging loan
I’ve used bridging finance in property deals and it’s big money interest
I really really hope in wrong but when I saw Vinais speech the other day I was just thinking smoke and mirrors
I work in procurement (all be it sales now) and I’ve had to become a good judge of people on initial view…. He came across to me as a puppet. A very very well paid puppet. He may be a great operator but we would never know unless money is there and I just don’t see the Lewis hierarchy doing that
Also worth people considering the new Lewis leaders are old ish folk too
They aren’t young pups trying to make a mark as it may sound (again IMO)
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I don't think any fans are going to be lapping this up, it's 90m which these days is nothing. Whether it's for transfer debt or spend, that is not going to change anyone's perception - especially when they know it's a loan....
 
Bedfordspurs said:
I’d live someone to explain to me how these football club valuations are made
Can never fathom how an entity that doesn’t make money and has a debt that’s about 150 of its turnover can be valued around 8 times its turnover
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It's valued by the buyer, market rate, and what someone wants to sell for.

Not everything is monetary. Prestige, excitement etc...

People gamble. Most must know they will lose in the long run. But the buzz of winning is what they are paying for. It's entertainment.

If you are a billionaire you don't need more money. You want something to play with. Nbody needs a picasso or a super yacht. Having one to show off though?
 
Lilbaz said:
It's valued by the buyer, market rate, and what someone wants to sell for.

Not everything is monetary. Prestige, excitement etc...

People gamble. Most must know they will lose in the long run. But the buzz of winning is what they are paying for. It's entertainment.

If you are a billionaire you don't need more money. You want something to play with. Nbody needs a picasso or a super yacht. Having one to show off though?
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£4B is a lot to money for a billionaire
These rich guys tend to look after their money
Unless it’s a country of course
 
Lilbaz said:
Boehly, clearlake. Usminov, moshiri. Ratcliffe and the glazers. Lewis and levy...

How many clubs these days have a sole owner, compared to multiple?
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Look at the fees paid
Only one of them even as a collective had paid over £B and that was for a distressed sale which makes it even more daft
So far they are an additional £B plus in debt too through Blue Co
Radcliffe is already cutting costs before doing whatever his plan is
Usmanov and Moshiri didn’t spend huge money, neither has Lewis or the glazers
 
Bedfordspurs said:
I’d live someone to explain to me how these football club valuations are made
Can never fathom how an entity that doesn’t make money and has a debt that’s about 150 of its turnover can be valued around 8 times its turnover
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It is common to value a business at SOME multiple of EBITDA

Google says
Tottenham's EBITDA for the year ended June 30, 2024, was £144.9 million, an increase from the previous year's £138.7 million, despite a 4% decrease in total revenue. This Profit from Operations figure represents the club's earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation, and amortization, and has improved for the third consecutive year

E.g. £145m x 20 = £2.9b

Clubs used to be worth £50m then £500m then £5bn, you can see why billionaires would be interested in jumping onboard to see what happens next, especially with the World Cup coming up in the Americas.

Not to mention sports washers.

By the way, billionaires like Elon Musk don't have cash floating around, they don't spend £100m to buy equipment or rockets or companies, they just load up more debt, secured against their other businesses, so I assume Tavistock would do similar.
 
Bullet said:
It is common to value a business at SOME multiple of EBITDA

Google says
Tottenham's EBITDA for the year ended June 30, 2024, was £144.9 million, an increase from the previous year's £138.7 million, despite a 4% decrease in total revenue. This Profit from Operations figure represents the club's earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation, and amortization, and has improved for the third consecutive year

E.g. £145m x 20 = £2.9b

Clubs used to be worth £50m then £500m then £5bn, you can see why billionaires would be interested in jumping onboard to see what happens next, especially with the World Cup coming up in the Americas.

Not to mention sports washers.

By the way, billionaires like Elon Musk don't have cash floating around, they don't spend £100m to buy equipment or rockets or companies, they just load up more debt, secured against their other businesses, so I assume Tavistock would do similar.
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Yeah I get all that
I’ve done some M&A before
But that model works when you actually pay off debt before hand and I’m not sure why it’s a multiple of 20…
As far as I can recall we haven’t paid any debt off, just interest on the stadium debt

With That last figure you also have to add on the debt we owed due this summer and next for player transfers… vs assets which actually depreciate in the EBIT

Enic have actually secured loans but unlike Blue Co it’s against the club.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Look at the fees paid
Only one of them even as a collective had paid over £B and that was for a distressed sale which makes it even more daft
So far they are an additional £B plus in debt too through Blue Co
Radcliffe is already cutting costs before doing whatever his plan is
Usmanov and Moshiri didn’t spend huge money, neither has Lewis or the glazers
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Not sure what you are trying to say? You keep moving.
Are you saying nobody would buy us? The lewis's don't want to sell? What?

My point was buying a football club isn't just about economic return. The values won't make sense to us in that context. Although for the last 30 years if a club does well the asset itself increases in value.
 
Lilbaz said:
Not sure what you are trying to say? You keep moving.
Are you saying nobody would buy us? The lewis's don't want to sell? What?

My point was buying a football club isn't just about economic return. The values won't make sense to us in that context. Although for the last 30 years if a club does well the asset itself increases in value.
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I was juts responding that what you said
And to be clear I’m saying what I’ve always said
The valuation is nuts and makes no sense unless it’s a country buying us
And the Lewis’s ain’t investing anything in the club, that’s clear today (amazing it all become more public after vinais interview)
So it’s no change anywhere imo
It’s like the football rich list… it’s all made up unless it becomes true.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
I was juts responding that what you said
And to be clear I’m saying what I’ve always said
The valuation is nuts and makes no sense unless it’s a country buying us
And the Lewis’s ain’t investing anything in the club, that’s clear today (amazing it all become more public after vinais interview)
So it’s no change anywhere imo
It’s like the football rich list… it’s all made up unless it becomes true.
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The valuation is gonads by the media. Nobody knows the valuation. As it's what someone is eilling to pay and what the owners are willing to sell for.

The stadium cost £1bn. The training ground by now cost another £150m say.

Revenue will be £650m probably this year with concerts and cl. Higher than arsenal, chelsea and possibly liverpool.

So i dunno. It doesn't matter to us unless it happens.
 
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