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ENIC

Raziel said:
To me, the game is broken and I struggle with the "hey, fudge it, lets just join the cheaters" or resign to just enjoy the fact that we follow a top club (we are), compete in Europe, and if we get the occasional final success, it's a bonus not an expectation.
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Spot in thisnpart for me, I never got jealous and upset when Man United were walking the league all of the 90s and most of the the 00s and that certainly doesn't change now.
 
Raziel said:
That wasn't my comment, which was more focused on the wish for success meaning nothing else (the how) mattered. But to take it where you are

- If Spurs doesn't win anything in the next 20 years (regardless of ENIC/not), does that change how you view your connection with the club, if so, why different from the millions who support clubs that have zero chance of success ever?
- Yes, someone could have done better than ENIC, but alternatively no guarantees (vs. some who think anyone/everyone would have done better than ENIC)

To me, the game is broken and I struggle with the "hey, fudge it, lets just join the cheaters" or resign to just enjoy the fact that we follow a top club (we are), compete in Europe, and if we get the occasional final success, it's a bonus not an expectation.
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I inherited the love of football and Spurs from my dad who was born in the area, moved away as a young child but retained that connection to the club. I love football full stop. It has given me joy not just through Spurs but players like Messi, Zidane and Xavi have given me pleasure watching their skill and ultimately their achievements. Winning isn’t the only thing but it is why a lot of us go to matches. After all, why be so disappointed after a defeat if winning isn’t that important? Surely your love of Spurs fills you with enough joy to compensate for when we lose a match? Sport in general is about competition but it is also about winning and losing. We all want to see Spurs win and be successful.

I’ve read comments about giving ENIC more time as we are only 4 years removed from the completion of the stadium which is fine and I do understand that, but how much more time do you propose we give them? Surely you accept some people don’t want to give them infinite time and resources? Arsenal paid off the bulk of their stadium in 2013 IIRC which is 7 years after they moved. A similar timeframe for us wouldn’t be unreasonable I suppose. But I do get why people have had enough. No one lives forever and it’s not unrealistic to have the viewpoint that we need heavier investment to compete with top clubs.
 
Jurgen the German said:
I inherited the love of football and Spurs from my dad who was born in the area, moved away as a young child but retained that connection to the club. I love football full stop. It has given me joy not just through Spurs but players like Messi, Zidane and Xavi have given me pleasure watching their skill and ultimately their achievements. Winning isn’t the only thing but it is why a lot of us go to matches. After all, why be so disappointed after a defeat if winning isn’t that important? Surely your love of Spurs fills you with enough joy to compensate for when we lose a match? Sport in general is about competition but it is also about winning and losing. We all want to see Spurs win and be successful.

I’ve read comments about giving ENIC more time as we are only 4 years removed from the completion of the stadium which is fine and I do understand that, but how much more time do you propose we give them? Surely you accept some people don’t want to give them infinite time and resources? Arsenal paid off the bulk of their stadium in 2013 IIRC which is 7 years after they moved. A similar timeframe for us wouldn’t be unreasonable I suppose. But I do get why people have had enough. No one lives forever and it’s not unrealistic to have the viewpoint that we need heavier investment to compete with top clubs.
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I've learned to temper the disappointment while enjoying the wins, it's one of the reasons I stepped away from Spurs boards for a while, don't need the misery/negativity (regardless of how grounded it is).

We won't compete with City and Saudi Sportswashing Machine under ENIC (just to clarify my point of view), if the goal is to win multiple trophies on a regular basis, it won't happen under ENIC. I don't think that's necessarily their fault, the game was always skewed, but the world of Chelsea, City, PSG, Saudi Sportswashing Machine have broken it beyond where a reasonable business can compete. ENIC has closed the gap, they have future proofed the club (we will never be completely out of the picture due to the investments made in infrastructure), they have given us a foundation.

So yes, I'd like to see us win, be an elite club, I'm aware that it won't happen under ENIC, just not sold on the idea that I should be entirely oblivious to whoever comes in as long as they give me that success (I have zero respect for the tossers at Chelsea chanting RA's name in the game against City)
 
Raziel said:
I've learned to temper the disappointment while enjoying the wins, it's one of the reasons I stepped away from Spurs boards for a while, don't need the misery/negativity (regardless of how grounded it is).

We won't compete with City and Saudi Sportswashing Machine under ENIC (just to clarify my point of view), if the goal is to win multiple trophies on a regular basis, it won't happen under ENIC. I don't think that's necessarily their fault, the game was always skewed, but the world of Chelsea, City, PSG, Saudi Sportswashing Machine have broken it beyond where a reasonable business can compete. ENIC has closed the gap, they have future proofed the club (we will never be completely out of the picture due to the investments made in infrastructure), they have given us a foundation.

So yes, I'd like to see us win, be an elite club, I'm aware that it won't happen under ENIC, just not sold on the idea that I should be entirely oblivious to whoever comes in as long as they give me that success (I have zero respect for the tossers at Chelsea chanting RA's name in the game against City)
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Prior to the Saudi Sportswashing Machine takeover the board were very bullish (via AG iirc) about where we would be financially in the next decade - can't remember the exact wording but it was implied we'd have the biggest revenue in the league. If that's on the horizon and as long as there's some form of FFP that the oil clubs are having to stick to then i think success could come under them - it always comes back to money at the end of the day.
 
Raziel said:
I've learned to temper the disappointment while enjoying the wins, it's one of the reasons I stepped away from Spurs boards for a while, don't need the misery/negativity (regardless of how grounded it is).

We won't compete with City and Saudi Sportswashing Machine under ENIC (just to clarify my point of view), if the goal is to win multiple trophies on a regular basis, it won't happen under ENIC. I don't think that's necessarily their fault, the game was always skewed, but the world of Chelsea, City, PSG, Saudi Sportswashing Machine have broken it beyond where a reasonable business can compete. ENIC has closed the gap, they have future proofed the club (we will never be completely out of the picture due to the investments made in infrastructure), they have given us a foundation.

So yes, I'd like to see us win, be an elite club, I'm aware that it won't happen under ENIC, just not sold on the idea that I should be entirely oblivious to whoever comes in as long as they give me that success (I have zero respect for the tossers at Chelsea chanting RA's name in the game against City)
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Liverpool won the big titles and didn't spend outlandish amounts. Granted Saudi Sportswashing Machine are now added to the mix but there is still a pathway if you get things right. The main one being the manager.
 
Raziel said:
I've learned to temper the disappointment while enjoying the wins, it's one of the reasons I stepped away from Spurs boards for a while, don't need the misery/negativity (regardless of how grounded it is).

We won't compete with City and Saudi Sportswashing Machine under ENIC (just to clarify my point of view), if the goal is to win multiple trophies on a regular basis, it won't happen under ENIC. I don't think that's necessarily their fault, the game was always skewed, but the world of Chelsea, City, PSG, Saudi Sportswashing Machine have broken it beyond where a reasonable business can compete. ENIC has closed the gap, they have future proofed the club (we will never be completely out of the picture due to the investments made in infrastructure), they have given us a foundation.

So yes, I'd like to see us win, be an elite club, I'm aware that it won't happen under ENIC, just not sold on the idea that I should be entirely oblivious to whoever comes in as long as they give me that success (I have zero respect for the tossers at Chelsea chanting RA's name in the game against City)
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Fair enough. I accept people will have different viewpoints when it comes to ENIC. I can see why people want a change and believe they won’t take us to the next level. I feel some overstate their importance/achievements but I can recognise we have made great strides as a club during their tenure.
 
ricky2tricky4city said:
Liverpool won the big titles and didn't spend outlandish amounts. Granted Saudi Sportswashing Machine are now added to the mix but there is still a pathway if you get things right. The main one being the manager.
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Whilst that is true, Liverpool had decades of success to fall back on when they go through lean spells which helps them attract better players and managers than a less successful club would be able to. They had a perfect storm of good recruitment, heavy but concentrated spending (funded by sales of their most effective players at the time) and a manager suited to the club’s ethos and their fans all got behind.
 
Jurgen the German said:
Fair enough. I accept people will have different viewpoints when it comes to ENIC. I can see why people want a change and believe they won’t take us to the next level. I feel some overstate their importance/achievements but I can recognise we have made great strides as a club during their tenure.
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The thing that's slightly irritating is some of the issues people have had with Levy he's moved towards changing/rectifying.

The truth being the reason he was like that before is not to do with his personal characteristics but the financial footing and outlook of the club. And low and behold that's exactly the same reason he's changing the way we operate now.
 
billyiddo said:
Prior to the Saudi Sportswashing Machine takeover the board were very bullish (via AG iirc) about where we would be financially in the next decade - can't remember the exact wording but it was implied we'd have the biggest revenue in the league. If that's on the horizon and as long as there's some form of FFP that the oil clubs are having to stick to then i think success could come under them - it always comes back to money at the end of the day.
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I’d be content with it if they got something like a 25% stake for £500m (and that went to Paratici and Conte) and they then made separate investments in improving not just the immediate area around the ground (that is happening anyway) but the wider Tottenham area (its actually a very big town) that would take several billion I’d imagine although they would have to spar with the loons at the council.

If we could add that £500m to the yearly stadium money, a naming rights deal and the investment enic did last year, we could be looking at a serious pot of cash to spend on players for the foreseeable future.
 
ricky2tricky4city said:
Liverpool won the big titles and didn't spend outlandish amounts. Granted Saudi Sportswashing Machine are now added to the mix but there is still a pathway if you get things right. The main one being the manager.
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They did break several world records
Take 5 years
And change their whole team
Our fans think that can happen in 2 windows
Patience is not something prevalent at spurs
You also need luck and timing … two things we as a club rarely manage to combine
 
The best case scenario is they buy into Tottenham Hotspur property holdings … or whatever that’s called
That way it’s separate to the playing side and very much one why Quatar seem to well in London, but property and make it more valuable
It won’t be better for the locals as it would be gentrification but it would give the club more money indirectly
 
AjaxDeSuperYids said:
I’d be content with it if they got something like a 25% stake for £500m (and that went to Paratici and Conte) and they then made separate investments in improving not just the immediate area around the ground (that is happening anyway) but the wider Tottenham area (its actually a very big town) that would take several billion I’d imagine although they would have to spar with the loons at the council.

If we could add that £500m to the yearly stadium money, a naming rights deal and the investment enic did last year, we could be looking at a serious pot of cash to spend on players for the foreseeable future.
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Would that money be available to the club, or would enic just sell part of their stake and pocket the money?

Good point on the area, Emirates Marketing Project has seen a whole revamp. The regeneration of tottenham might eventually happen despite the tacos of politicians.

Last point, it's one "journalists" tweet that has basically gone viral. Even that filled with if, buts and maybes. I'll believe it when i see it.
 
Lilbaz said:
Would that money be available to the club, or would enic just sell part of their stake and pocket the money?

Good point on the area, Emirates Marketing Project has seen a whole revamp. The regeneration of tottenham might eventually happen despite the tacos of politicians.

Last point, it's one "journalists" tweet that has basically gone viral. Even that filled with if, buts and maybes. I'll believe it when i see it.
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The conversation on that seems to be whether they would sell them shares direct or dilute their holding (?) - I'm a financial dunce though so maybe someone like @Finney Is Back would explain it better
 
Lilbaz said:
Would that money be available to the club, or would enic just sell part of their stake and pocket the money?

Good point on the area, Emirates Marketing Project has seen a whole revamp. The regeneration of tottenham might eventually happen despite the tacos of politicians.

Last point, it's one "journalists" tweet that has basically gone viral. Even that filled with if, buts and maybes. I'll believe it when i see it.
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As i said above… Quatar want property and assets in London
We talked to them at work about advising them but the company has a high moral standing so in the end we walked away (before my time)
But Quatar owns a decent chunk of prime London real estate
 
I would say that there are good enough sources now saying that they have met to take it at face value - where it goes from here is anyones guess.

Naming rights for the stadium is something that doesn't seem to have cropped up - that would be much more acceptable than a takeover or minority stake
 
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