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ENIC

RigorMortis said:
I am not an armchair critic
I have had a season ticket since 1991 first with my dad and sister, then with friends and now with my son

I’ve been to watch spurs in five finals (including the champions league final), two of which we have won

Nine semi finals by my count( including champions league and excluding league cups) one of which we have won( against Ajax)

I’ve travelled up from uni in Southampton to watch us lose a third round cup tie against Saudi Sportswashing Machine 6-1 under George Graham I think?

I am well within my rights to criticise ENIC who fail to show me any coherent strategy to help us real the glass ceiling, you may think they are decent, I don’t.
I think they see a loyal fan base and a decent money making vehicle for themselves.

Portraying the real problem as Oil Money just simplifies everything, we would have won it all if Abramovich or Sheikh Mansour hadn’t turned up!

Yet they still continue to charge the same sky high ticket prices whilst our stock falls lower.

tbh I would rather you be right about ENIC but I fail to see any substance in your argument against the hard evidence of the team’s achievements under ENIC over a 21 year period.

But you go on criticising other fans for having an opinion that may differ from yours
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Simple question: would you prefer we didn't have NFL and Guns and Roses concerts while there is no football being played? That is what you were criticising. And it is also what should give us an extra 20-30m a year or so towards transfers. Huge sums really. Just when you have a country's oil wealth that you are competing with, 20m looks small insignificant. The stadium revenue and training complex are what Levy has delivered. He has also headed up the club while its reached CL final etc. And yes if it wasn't for city and chelsea being oiled we probably would have taken home some trophies.

No one said you are not entitled to criticise. But I'd ask is it constructive, and what would you do differently?
 
Gazza said:
I think a little balance is needed at times in our views but it's all good to have both and all sides of the fence.

I for one think Levy and Enic have done a great job off the field in building the club, as is their priority to fatten the goose ready to flog at the highest price. Hence their main focus.

Meanwhile their shortcomings for matters on the pitch leave much to be desired, but again it highlights that it's not really their main focus in winning trophies, which I feel it should be, being a football club.

Under their tenure, we will never be successful on the pitch and the results show that.

It's great for them to sell the club, having built it up for someone else to invest on the pitch as required, as everything else is now in place.

Unless they change their strategy for the footballing matters i just can't see how the last 20 years strategy will pay off unless we get super lucky. And I'm afraid I feel ENIC are happy riding the money hoping to get lucky once in a while.
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We're competing in a league with 2 traditional giants of the game and 2, soon to be 3, super rich oil clubs - the chances of achieving 'success' is minute, regardless of who the owners are - so unless there's a super rich backer waiting in the shadows who is going to be able & willing to match up against Saudi & Abu Dhabi levels of backing then people who want new owners are very likely to be left dissapointed with what comes from a change.
 
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billyiddo said:
We're competing in a league with 2 traditional giants of the game and 2, soon to be 3, super rich oil clubs - the chances of achieving 'success' is minute, regardless of who the owners are - so unless there's a super rich backer waiting in the shadows who is going to be able & willing to match up against Saudi & Abu Dhabi levels of backing then people who want a change in owners are likely to be left dissapointed with what comes from a change in owners.
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And yet Levy got us challenging for the PL and the CL, with a manager he picked himself, and who fans had never considered.
 
SpurMeUp said:
Simple question: would you prefer we didn't have NFL and Guns and Roses concerts while there is no football being played? That is what you were criticising. And it is also what should give us an extra 20-30m a year or so towards transfers. Huge sums really. Just when you have a country's oil wealth that you are competing with, 20m looks small insignificant. The stadium revenue and training complex are what Levy has delivered. He has also headed up the club while its reached CL final etc. And yes if it wasn't for city and chelsea being oiled we probably would have taken home some trophies.

No one said you are not entitled to criticise. But I'd ask is it constructive, and what would you do differently?
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Simple answer if I had confidence that ENIC had a coherent strategy for the club I couldn’t care less, I have no interest in NFL or GNR being at the stadium apart from how they impact our performance on the pitch, so far I have seen no impact.

I have seen two times where we have had the opportunity and we haven’t taken the step forward.

Guns N Roses haven’t performed at the stadium and I can’t comment on their impact on our transfer kitty.

Unfortunately the training complex and the stadium revenue hasn’t equated to progress on the pitch, in fact we are falling behind.

Conte’s latest comments indicate our strategy remains unchanged. City and Chelsea being oiled doesn’t explain why Leiscter and Liverpool have won trophies.Hell even arse have won the cup

There is an intangible in terms of luck but in general having a coherent strategy for the football side would lead to success particularly with the revenue as you say we generate.

it’s not just about spending money, it’s about showing a degree of competency on the football side.

Look at Liverpool in my opinion they are preparing for when Salah, mane and firminho leave by bring on Diaz and Jota

We have been struggling to have a back up striker for years, we didn’t prepare for the departure of dembele, when we finally spent money we sacked the a manager who bought in the players.

I find it utterly shambolic, ENIC’s best policy seems to be if there’s a crisis let’s hire an ex Chelsea manager and see if they can spread some magic dust.

ENIC are risk averse and they make more bad descision a than good on the football side.

also I believe they have a nice little earner here and I believe don’t really have the ambition to succeed on the footballing side unless it’s just quick little jumps
More by luck than any sembelance of a long term strategy.
They continue to charge the highest ticket prices, our revenue streams are great yet the football side continues to stumble

Do I see us ever being successful on a football pitch under ENIC, sadly no and I haven’t seen a substantial argument ( that doesn’t involve wow is me others won the lottery and look at our growth) that counters this
 
billyiddo said:
We're competing in a league with 2 traditional giants of the game and 2, soon to be 3, super rich oil clubs - the chances of achieving 'success' is minute, regardless of who the owners are - so unless there's a super rich backer waiting in the shadows who is going to be able & willing to match up against Saudi & Abu Dhabi levels of backing then people who want new owners are very likely to be left dissapointed with what comes from a change.
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So basically we should suck it up?

There is nothing we can do so let’s carry on paying the highest tickets in the land and accept our standing in the footballing food chain?
 
DubSpur said:
Who said it was a master plan? It ensures the long term security of the club without any outside investment.
Is that not a good place to be in?

I know you want your trophy now and are only interested in a sugar daddy that can provide that, but there's only so many of them to go around...
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You don’t know anything about what I want

You say they don’t want outside investment but reports indicate they are searching for outside investment?
Do I think it’s a good place to be in, 7th in the table and wasting our games in hand due to a real shortage in quality in our squad

no I don’t think it’s a good place to be mate
 
billyiddo said:
We're competing in a league with 2 traditional giants of the game and 2, soon to be 3, super rich oil clubs - the chances of achieving 'success' is minute, regardless of who the owners are - so unless there's a super rich backer waiting in the shadows who is going to be able & willing to match up against Saudi & Abu Dhabi levels of backing then people who want new owners are very likely to be left dissapointed with what comes from a change.
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Ok let's just just pretend that we are doing as best as we can get.

Liverpool and Leicester have somehow recruited very well and won titles and cups. Our recruitment is the issue and the way we go about matters on the pitch. It's getting boring knowing our tried tested and failed methods in getting players that we target initially.

Sure there is a risk of new owners coming in and doing something like kronke at arsenal, but the motto is to dare is to do ... we just can't spend the next 20 years hoping to get lucky with Poch MK2 and building from there.

Oh and we are not even close to competing as Levy or anyone else will tell me.
 
RigorMortis said:
So basically we should suck it up?

There is nothing we can do so let’s carry on paying the highest tickets in the land and accept our standing in the footballing food chain?
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that is your choice to make, you don't have to pay the ticket prices if you think the product isn't good value

you do have to accept our standing in the food chain though, that is fixed, no matter who the owner is
 
RigorMortis said:
Simple answer if I had confidence that ENIC had a coherent strategy for the club I couldn’t care less, I have no interest in NFL or GNR being at the stadium apart from how they impact our performance on the pitch, so far I have seen no impact.

I have seen two times where we have had the opportunity and we haven’t taken the step forward.

Guns N Roses haven’t performed at the stadium and I can’t comment on their impact on our transfer kitty.

Unfortunately the training complex and the stadium revenue hasn’t equated to progress on the pitch, in fact we are falling behind.

Conte’s latest comments indicate our strategy remains unchanged. City and Chelsea being oiled doesn’t explain why Leiscter and Liverpool have won trophies.Hell even arse have won the cup

There is an intangible in terms of luck but in general having a coherent strategy for the football side would lead to success particularly with the revenue as you say we generate.

it’s not just about spending money, it’s about showing a degree of competency on the football side.

Look at Liverpool in my opinion they are preparing for when Salah, mane and firminho leave by bring on Diaz and Jota

We have been struggling to have a back up striker for years, we didn’t prepare for the departure of dembele, when we finally spent money we sacked the a manager who bought in the players.

I find it utterly shambolic, ENIC’s best policy seems to be if there’s a crisis let’s hire an ex Chelsea manager and see if they can spread some magic dust.

ENIC are risk averse and they make more bad descision a than good on the football side.

also I believe they have a nice little earner here and I believe don’t really have the ambition to succeed on the footballing side unless it’s just quick little jumps
More by luck than any sembelance of a long term strategy.
They continue to charge the highest ticket prices, our revenue streams are great yet the football side continues to stumble

Do I see us ever being successful on a football pitch under ENIC, sadly no and I haven’t seen a substantial argument ( that doesn’t involve wow is me others won the lottery and look at our growth) that counters this
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I see no reason not to think that the training complex was a part of our good results and improvements when we got consistent CL football and challenged for the league and CL.

The impact from the stadium has obviously been negatively impacted by covid. To me we're rather obviously in a stronger position with the new stadium than without it. That hasn't translated to the pitch yet, but that's over a small period of time and mostly time impacted by covid.

There was clear progress on the pitch for quite a while. Several periods actually. But these things tend to fluctuate.
 
Baleforce said:
that is your choice to make, you don't have to pay the ticket prices if you think the product isn't good value

you do have to accept our standing in the food chain though, that is fixed, no matter who the owner is
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What tosh.

I’m afraid over 150 or so years of competitive league and cup football in England would contradict you
 
Gazza said:
Ok let's just just pretend that we are doing as best as we can get.

Liverpool and Leicester have somehow recruited very well and won titles and cups. Our recruitment is the issue and the way we go about matters on the pitch. It's getting boring knowing our tried tested and failed methods in getting players that we target initially.

Sure there is a risk of new owners coming in and doing something like kronke at arsenal, but the motto is to dare is to do ... we just can't spend the next 20 years hoping to get lucky with Poch MK2 and building from there.

Oh and we are not even close to competing as Levy or anyone else will tell me.
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there is something else Leicester and Liverpool have in common, I'd hope we'd not risk the reputation of the club by doing the same thing just to nick the odd trophy here and there, they might have it all taken away from them yet, although football seems quite happy to hide its PED use problem
 
Gazza said:
Ok let's just just pretend that we are doing as best as we can get.

Liverpool and Leicester have somehow recruited very well and won titles and cups. Our recruitment is the issue and the way we go about matters on the pitch. It's getting boring knowing our tried tested and failed methods in getting players that we target initially.

Sure there is a risk of new owners coming in and doing something like kronke at arsenal, but the motto is to dare is to do ... we just can't spend the next 20 years hoping to get lucky with Poch MK2 and building from there.

Oh and we are not even close to competing as Levy or anyone else will tell me.
Click to expand...

Our recruitment wasn't good enough. So Levy got new people in to take charge of recruitment. Isn't that what he's supposed to do? It's not like our recruitment has been consistently bad under Levy. It's been ups and downs.

If the expectations are consistent good recruitment without ups and downs Leicester and Liverpool do not cut it as examples. They've had a really impressive run now, spanning years, but so have we in the past. And that's still a relatively recent development for both clubs, who knows if they will be able to keep that up.
 
Gazza said:
Ok let's just just pretend that we are doing as best as we can get.

Liverpool and Leicester have somehow recruited very well and won titles and cups. Our recruitment is the issue and the way we go about matters on the pitch. It's getting boring knowing our tried tested and failed methods in getting players that we target initially.

Sure there is a risk of new owners coming in and doing something like kronke at arsenal, but the motto is to dare is to do ... we just can't spend the next 20 years hoping to get lucky with Poch MK2 and building from there.

Oh and we are not even close to competing as Levy or anyone else will tell me.
Click to expand...


Leicester have recruited well and have a manager many on here thought was the answer to our prayers, they're 11th and 9 points behind us.
 
braineclipse said:
Our recruitment wasn't good enough. So Levy got new people in to take charge of recruitment. Isn't that what he's supposed to do? It's not like our recruitment has been consistently bad under Levy. It's been ups and downs.

If the expectations are consistent good recruitment without ups and downs Leicester and Liverpool do not cut it as examples. They've had a really impressive run now, spanning years, but so have we in the past. And that's still a relatively recent development for both clubs, who knows if they will be able to keep that up.
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indeed, its those two now, the grass is always greener, its not that long ago we should have been recruiting like Everton, or Swansea...
 
braineclipse said:
I see no reason not to think that the training complex was a part of our good results and improvements when we got consistent CL football and challenged for the league and CL.

The impact from the stadium has obviously been negatively impacted by covid. To me we're rather obviously in a stronger position with the new stadium than without it. That hasn't translated to the pitch yet, but that's over a small period of time and mostly time impacted by covid.

There was clear progress on the pitch for quite a while. Several periods actually. But these things tend to fluctuate.
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We had the training ground for two seasons prior to cl and we had cl and fourth place finishes prior to the training ground, we have also slipped out of the top four and towards mid table with the new stadium and the training facilities

yes they may be positive contributors but I suggest the biggest contributor was a great footballing descision by ENIC to hire Poch and the major contributor to our fall was the descision not to strengthen from a position of strength and then finally spend some money and then sack the manager who identified the targets

as I’ve been at pains to point out it’s not just the spending of money by ENIC but their descisions on the footballing side and after 20 years I charge I can’t really see things changing
 
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