Modric THFC
Jimmy McCormick
Adebayor was never singled out for a booing until he did that interview about the fans. This is nothing to do with how both perform on the pitch.
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Emmanuel Adebayor - Officially gone \o/
- Thread starter jimmyb
- Start date
Adebayor was never singled out for a booing until he did that interview about the fans. This is nothing to do with how both perform on the pitch.
Finney Is Back
Luka Modric
I guess the problem with stats is that one can use them to prove/disprove anything depending on their initial biased viewpoint. So let's ignore the cherry picking from both you and I....
Adebayor total score: 10.07. Soldado total score: 3.81..... That suggests to me that overall Adebayor's contribution is rated better than Soldados? (or perhaps put more accurately Adebayor's overall contribution is rated as not nearly as bad as Soldado's?) If Adebayor is much lazier than Soldado (as suggested on here) then surely he must offer a far better option in terms of his attacking prowess in order to have an overall score significantly better than Soldado's?
imcallingbullsh*t
Steven Caulker
Well thats what others are discussing...
Twisting of stats to meet the narrative of Lazy Ade who doesnt care. Whilst Soldado gets a different treatment. You can like or dislike a player without being blind to what they are good or bad at. We are talking about Boo'ing one of own players here, because he asked for more support from the home fans.
In terms of the interview about the fans, he wasnt the first to say it, and i doubt he will be the last. I agreed with him as do a lot of people.
Right message wrong messenger as discussed previously. However if he didn't care he wouldn't say it, like turning down Qatar allegedly, it doesn't fit the narrative so people ignore it.
People seem happy to say the media makes stuff up to create headlines, but then swallows it all 5 minutes later.
Is Ade a saint no. Is he the devil no.
Except Soldado gets treated like brick as well, just by different fans.
Superhudd
Simon Davies
parklane1
Tony Galvin
One of the biggest problems in todays game is how SOME fans use stats as if they were the Holy Bible of football. I have used them as a tool but they very rarely tell the whole story and can be used by SOME fans to push their agenda.
Now I guess that abacus games could be to blame for the blind faith SOME fans use stats as the truth and nothing but the truth, but as I have said and seen ( in work) they are a tool nothing more nothing less.
braineclipse
Steve Sedgley
There's only rarely, if ever, been questions asked over Soldado's effort. Never heard of such questions being asked in Spain, can't remember many whilst at Spurs. Can't remember him ever being late back from international duty, falling out with a manager to the point of becoming unavailable for selection and the wide range of other issues we have seen with Ade.
It might only be a perception of Ade being much more lazy than Soldado. But that perception will greatly influence how fans react to a player. Personally I don't think his work rate is anywhere near good enough for Pochettino's style of football. Interesting article in the Poch thread about our style developing, particularly after Kaboul, Capoue and Ade have been left out. I don't think it's a coincidence that our pressing looks much better without him for example.
I'm glad you agree you were cherry picking, what I was doing was tailoring the stats used to the argument in hand.
The problem with the total score stat is that it includes all kind of irrelevant information. A player could spend the whole match beating players up and down the right wing, never release the ball but boost his stats because of all the successful take ons. Or a player could make 100 backwards hospital passes that a team mate just gets a toe to and boost his stats that way.
We were initially discussing effort made - specifically in a pressing sense the way Poch seems to like. In every measure available to us, Ade comes out looking poor. Even if it does turn out that he runs more (unlikely) there's clearly no intelligence to it as the lack of results suggests a Forrest Gump style of running.
On the basis that we're all agreed that neither are scoring enough then we're far better off with the player who puts in the effort, tackles more, intercepts more and assists more.
Ade is like that person we've all worked with at some point in our lives where you just think if only they put as much effort into working as they do avoiding work, they'd be incredible at what they do.
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Jurgen the German
Erik Thorstvedt
I actually think chances created are a better stat than assists as assists rely on the person on the end of the chance to score in order to get credit for it.
Agree with the rest though.
That doesn't take into account the quality of the chance though. A chance could be created by giving Townsend the ball anywhere within 50 yards of the goal. You can guarantee it will end with a shot but you could bet your house on the result not being a goal.
Equally you could be on the edge of the box with a 50:50 choice of a through ball to either Soldado or Kane. The only sensible choice (everything else being even) is the ball to Kane, but a pass to Soldado would still be a chance created.
Finney Is Back
Luka Modric
True.... but the stat for number of assists doesn't take into account the quality of the finish either... i.e. the person who passed the ball to Kane out on the left against Chelsea would be credited with an assist, but in reality Kane kind of assisted his own goal there if you get what I mean. Additionally you used the example earlier of a player running down the wing beating a player but there being no end product rendering the 'take ons' stat pointless, but you could argue the same for the interception stat if for example the player who makes the interception then immediately gives the ball away, or if the player made the interception simply because the opposition played an awful ball straight to him. In fact yours and my examples are the sole reason why I don't like judging a players performance by stats - as I have said before I would imagine Capoue was purchased solely on stats analysis (as dear GHod I hope it wasn't on the back of somebody actually watching him!) and in isolation his stats for us probably look good).
I also find it strange that you don't consider distance covered to be a worthwhile stat if considering whether or not a player is 'lazy'. I would say it is probably the one stat to use in order to make a decision on this. Remember we're not talking about quality or effectiveness here but simply whether or not a player is lazy. Surely somebody who runs around a lot cannot be lazy? Ineffective - absolutely, but not lazy.
Rob
Peter Taylor
We'd been saying it ourselves at The Lane. The atmosphere over recent years has suffered. Excellent term that, right message, wrong messenger. But then if the club captain had said it instead of the vice captain then he'd be getting the same treatment and Adebayor would still be getting booed.
paxtonwolf
Tony Marchi
I doubt it will happen., but if he comes off the bench tomorrow he has a chance to change a few fans minds, especially if he puts in one of those performances we know he is capable of and grabs the winner
milo
Jack L. Jones
That would be perfect. A head right and motivated Ade could be a brilliant last twenty minute option from the bench for the rest of the season. Sadly, I don't see him making the bench tomorrow.
SpurMeUp
Les Howe
"I knew he could go and I would have been happy to play with two strikers for the rest of the season.
Possibly, we could have used Nacer Chadli or Erik Lamela, but the first thing was that I wanted to keep Adebayor in the squad. It is important to clarify that.
After, when the players want to play more or some club calls them, and they want to leave because they feel they can play more, it becomes a club decision.
It is not only about love. In the past it was difficult for him and what was happening."
– SPURS BOSS MAURICIO POCHETTINO.
Possibly, we could have used Nacer Chadli or Erik Lamela, but the first thing was that I wanted to keep Adebayor in the squad. It is important to clarify that.
After, when the players want to play more or some club calls them, and they want to leave because they feel they can play more, it becomes a club decision.
It is not only about love. In the past it was difficult for him and what was happening."
– SPURS BOSS MAURICIO POCHETTINO.
Superhudd
Simon Davies
We also saw recently where he said that Adebayor was not in the squad due to too many other better first team players if I am not mistaken.
He basically called out Levy in his last interview, the one before that it was Tottenham fans. I find it quite funny tbh that Adebayor and his agent Dein thought Levy would do West Ham a favour when we are not 7 odd months removed from Brady and the Hammers calling the police and pretty much trying to get Daniel Levy arrested and thrown in prison. I also believe that they knew this (Ade & agent) as Plan A is to stay put and refused the others and not West Ham.
Don't footballers need permission to do interviews with the media, wonders whether Ade had permission to do this last one. Could be interesting Levy playing bad cop (AVB) and Poch good cop (Sherwood) so when time comes, should the event arise... fcuk off I'm not tempting fate.
He basically called out Levy in his last interview, the one before that it was Tottenham fans. I find it quite funny tbh that Adebayor and his agent Dein thought Levy would do West Ham a favour when we are not 7 odd months removed from Brady and the Hammers calling the police and pretty much trying to get Daniel Levy arrested and thrown in prison. I also believe that they knew this (Ade & agent) as Plan A is to stay put and refused the others and not West Ham.
Don't footballers need permission to do interviews with the media, wonders whether Ade had permission to do this last one. Could be interesting Levy playing bad cop (AVB) and Poch good cop (Sherwood) so when time comes, should the event arise... fcuk off I'm not tempting fate.
It's not that I won't consider it, just that it's not available to us.
Although as I alluded to earlier in the thread, Ade could do a few k in 90mins just chasing his first touch all over the pitch. Or finding places to hide behind defenders.