Emmanuel Adebayor - Officially gone \o/

[LCLC]

You could just leave it as "lazy mercenary"...

And there you have it, touching on a real issue when it comes to the OTT criticism of him.

All pro footballers go on about is money, and the possible moves their agents have been gassing them up with. Don't fool yourself about 90% of players - they really don't give a brick about you or the club - its about getting why they can whilst they can. Again its their job so fair play, but Ade has this rather unique stigma as a complete mercenary that is a poor human being - hmmmm, the 'African' part will probably lead you to the reason behind these assertions.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Agreed. Ade and Soldado have both been turbo crud as KingDawson used to say. But Soldado works a bit harder. Both aren't good enough and need shifting in the summer.

I really hope Ade is nowhere near the starting 11 on Sunday, I don't trust him to behave himself.

Whereas I don't think Soldado works any harder than Ade. In fact I would probably say that Ade works harder on the pitch than Soldado.

 

[scaramanga]

Whereas I don't think Soldado works any harder than Ade. In fact I would probably say that Ade works harder on the pitch than Soldado.

..... at chasing down his own first touch.

And getting defenders between him and the ball. And getting into positions where there's no pressure on him.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Whereas I don't think Soldado works any harder than Ade. In fact I would probably say that Ade works harder on the pitch than Soldado.

Happy for you or anyone to give evidence to show this. I don't see it myself; I suspect this is largely a myth based Ade's purple-patch of last season

 

[LCLC]

Happy for you or anyone to give evidence to show this. I don't see it myself; I suspect this is largely a myth based Ade's purple-patch of last season

It really isn't - even in his bad season of 2012/2013 he worked hard for the team. He has consistently put in a shift (nothing exceptional mind) for us during his 3/4 years with us.

Soldado really doesn't do much in the way of working channels closing down, chasing lost causes, putting himself about. If he did it more I would probably be less critical of him on here

 

[glorygloryeze]

It really isn't - even in his bad season of 2012/2013 he worked hard for the team. He has consistently put in a shift (nothing exceptional mind) for us during his 3/4 years with us.

Soldado really doesn't do much in the way of working channels closing down, chasing lost causes, putting himself about. If he did it more I would probably be less critical of him on here

Firstly, I am taking about this season; secondly, can you or the other poster back this up with stats etc as this season Ade has NOT seemed like a hard worker at all. In fact he has often looked quite old and as if his age has caught up with him. In this regard I think it is physical limitations rather than attitude. But I am still to be convinced that this season Ade has worked harder on average that Soldado.

Happy to see the evidence that proves otherwise

 

[LCLC]

Unfortunately i am not from the ilk where I know much about or know where to get that info from (most of it is misleading and tiresome)...... but if your talking this season then it would be close..... i do know that when came on against Sunderland he had more touches of the ball in 25 mins than Bob did in 65..... doesn't necessary equate to work rate but being at the game it was clear that he was putting himself around far more and created a presence for us. Thats one game so doesn't help the argument at all

 

[Jurgen the German]

Whereas I don't think Soldado works any harder than Ade. In fact I would probably say that Ade works harder on the pitch than Soldado.

Also, Ade spends the majority of the game on the wing, how does he expecto to score?

 

[Superhudd]

As when people bring Hitler into a debate its called Godwins law. Should there now be a new law that when someone mentions race they too lose the argument, so fcuking predictable really isn't it. lol What should we call this law? I miss the banging head against wall smiley!

 

[glorygloryeze]

As when people bring Hitler into a debate its called Godwins law. Should there now be a new law that when someone mentions race they too lose the argument, so fcuking predictable really isn't it. lol What should we call this law? I miss the banging head against wall smiley!

Not really, but if someone mentions race without context they should be asked what the relevance was of mentioning race in the first place.

 

[Huddy]

Surely arguing who's run around a bit more this season when you're talking about Ade and Soldado is pointless. When either of them plays we struggle to hold the ball up when trying to turn defence into attack, neither of them show enough movement or desire. You only need to look at how much better we play with Kane up top with his work rate and movement to know that Ade and Soldado haven't worked hard enough for the team this season.

 

[scaramanga]

Unfortunately i am not from the ilk where I know much about or know where to get that info from (most of it is misleading and tiresome)...... but if your talking this season then it would be close..... i do know that when came on against Sunderland he had more touches of the ball in 25 mins than Bob did in 65..... doesn't necessary equate to work rate but being at the game it was clear that he was putting himself around far more and created a presence for us. Thats one game so doesn't help the argument at all

I'll help you.

I don't have access to the distance covered stats but that's not all that valuable to a team anyway - a player can run all day and not be doing any good.

But as we're talking about strikers and hard work, let's look at their defensive contribution metrics (all per 90):

Interceptions - Soldado had almost twice as many.
Tackles won - 3.5 times as many
Tackles lost - over 1.5 times

Data are here

 

[Bullet]

Surely arguing who's run around a bit more this season when you're talking about Ade and Soldado is pointless. When either of them plays we struggle to hold the ball up when trying to turn defence into attack, neither of them show enough movement or desire. You only need to look at how much better we play with Kane up top with his work rate and movement to know that Ade and Soldado haven't worked hard enough for the team this season.

Amen. Arguing over who is least ineffective. I would rather add a midfielder.

 

[thfcsteff]

Unfortunately i am not from the ilk where I know much about or know where to get that info from (most of it is misleading and tiresome)...... but if your talking this season then it would be close..... i do know that when came on against Sunderland he had more touches of the ball in 25 mins than Bob did in 65..... doesn't necessary equate to work rate but being at the game it was clear that he was putting himself around far more and created a presence for us. Thats one game so doesn't help the argument at all

'Far more?' Sorry, but I was also there and I'd say the truth of the matter is that he looked short of match-fitness and was struggling to make a contribution. He was trying his best, and I am not someone who dislikes him per se, but Bobby fits the team shape and style more in the sense that he does make runs, he does chase and he does dovetail easily in and around those front positions. I desperately want both of them to find their rhythm, but if neither is going to then I will stick with Bobby if it's a battle of the user-achievers for the supporting striker role. Having said all that, what price him rising from the bench to knock home Saturday's winner???

 

[Nexus1967]

It seems I have touched a nerve for some people when I describe that I see Adebeyor as. "A lazy african mercenary" I could call him a lazy Togolese mercenary which is the same thing. Obviously people love to jump on the racial sterotype analogy, but as I said before thats how I see him and no amount of argument or statistics will make me change my mind . Cant wait to see the back of him and the misfiring spanish striker and get someone new in we can all have a pop at when they dont run around enough or score every time they play

 

[Jurgen the German]

Surely arguing who's run around a bit more this season when you're talking about Ade and Soldado is pointless. When either of them plays we struggle to hold the ball up when trying to turn defence into attack, neither of them show enough movement or desire. You only need to look at how much better we play with Kane up top with his work rate and movement to know that Ade and Soldado haven't worked hard enough for the team this season.

This. It's a bit like arguing as to who is the thinnest kid at fat camp.

 

[Finney Is Back]

I'll help you.

I don't have access to the distance covered stats but that's not all that valuable to a team anyway - a player can run all day and not be doing any good.

But as we're talking about strikers and hard work, let's look at their defensive contribution metrics (all per 90):

Interceptions - Soldado had almost twice as many.
Tackles won - 3.5 times as many
Tackles lost - over 1.5 times

Data are here

Whereas if you add: goals, successful take ons, Ariel duals won, blocks and chances created Ade comes out on top.

I also notice that on the 'total score' stat it shows as: Adebayor 10.07 vs Soldado 3.81. Now as somebody who loves stats how do you explain that one Scara? Or just like with Sherwood are all stats with Adebayor null and void when they don't fit your argument?

In a way it's kind of a pointless argument anyway.... It's like arguing over who is the tallest midget.

The only difference between Ade and Soldado is that we know Adebayor CAN do it for us, the problem is that he has rarely done so consistently. Unfortunately though all we have seen from Soldado is penalties and missed open goals.

Let's hope neither are still with us in season 2015-2016.

 

[LCLC]

Whereas if you add: goals, successful take ons, Ariel duals won, blocks and chances created Ade comes out on top.

I also notice that on the 'total score' stat it shows as: Adebayor 10.07 vs Soldado 3.81. Now as somebody who loves stats how do you explain that one Scara? Or just like with Sherwood are all stats with Adebayor null and void when they don't fit your argument?

In a way it's kind of a pointless argument anyway.... It's like arguing over who is the tallest midget.

The only difference between Ade and Soldado is that we know Adebayor CAN do it for us, the problem is that he has rarely done so consistently. Unfortunately though all we have seen from Soldado is penalties and missed open goals.

Let's hope neither are still with us in season 2015-2016.

Well said - perfect response.

No one is trying to say Ade isn't a midget, its the fact that some people are trying to make out Soldado has the physique for Basketball that starts much of my arguments on the subject.

 

[scaramanga]

Whereas if you add: goals, successful take ons, Ariel duals won, blocks and chances created Ade comes out on top.

I also notice that on the 'total score' stat it shows as: Adebayor 10.07 vs Soldado 3.81. Now as somebody who loves stats how do you explain that one Scara? Or just like with Sherwood are all stats with Adebayor null and void when they don't fit your argument?

In a way it's kind of a pointless argument anyway.... It's like arguing over who is the tallest midget.

The only difference between Ade and Soldado is that we know Adebayor CAN do it for us, the problem is that he has rarely done so consistently. Unfortunately though all we have seen from Soldado is penalties and missed open goals.

Let's hope neither are still with us in season 2015-2016.

Nice cherry picking to find what favours your preferred player. We were discussing hard work and I used the best measures we have available for that in a pressing team - Ade comes out woefully badly.

Now if you want to discuss the other measures:
Goals - neither are good enough and because they're both so bad your measurement is the difference of one single goal
Successful take ons - Really? That's just scraping the barrel. I suspect that Townsend has plenty of successful take ons but no end product.
Ariel duals won - Again, really? You're comparing a tall player with a short one and using that as a measure? Shall we count their best limbo scores or shoe size?
Blocks - My understanding is that those are blocked shots? Doesn't really apply to the effort discussion we were having. Is that how you want to measure the effectiveness of a forward?
Chances created - That's pretty close but let's stop cherry picking and use assists as that will tell us the quality of the chances created - Soldado wins.

I don't believe Ade can do it at all. Comparing contract Ade and non-contract Ade is like comparing Spain Soldado and England Soldado. They are entirely different entities and clearly the historical existence of one does not imply the current existence of the other.

Agree with the last comment.

 

[imcallingbullsh*t]

I think the issue is this, Neither are performing as they should/could. There stats are probably even but in different areas

However Soldado gets his name cheered and seems to be treated like he is a GHod and his name chanted after 60mins
Ade gets labelled as everything under the sun and boo'ed if he comes on.

Making fans runs doesnt make you a good player (running after balls that are overhit you can't get but get a response from the crowd as your trying)

If both were treated equally i dont think there would be an issue. Boo both (not preferable) Support Both (Preferable) Ignore Both (Optional)