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Emirates Marketing Project

superspurs said:
I really fudging hope they get done with the premier league charges, 115 of em, surely they can't get out of all of them.
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You would hope ey. I respect Pep and what he has done with the team but can't respect them as a club and the strokes to do it. The whole OTT stuff on Sky put me off me grub, it was sickly. I get it was a celebration but there is huge context to the 5 titles in 6 years or whatever it is and it comes in the form of the 115 charges you mention.
 
Grays_1890 said:
You would hope ey. I respect Pep and what he has done with the team but can't respect them as a club and the strokes to do it. The whole OTT stuff on Sky put me off me grub, it was sickly. I get it was a celebration but there is huge context to the 5 titles in 6 years or whatever it is and it comes in the form of the 115 charges you mention.
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I respect Pep, to a certain degree, I saw a clip the other day, think it was TalkSport where they were arguing who was better, SAF or Pep and when you compare them side by side, SAF is so fudging clear in terms of his achievements it's absurd.

Sky just slurp the winners, City, Liverpool in recent years more than anyone I think, GHod knows what it would have been like had the scum won it.

In hindsight, I don't think they made a big deal over Leicester winning it, nothing compared to seeing City win it again or even when Utd would win it every year for what felt like 2 decades in the 90s and early 00s.
 
superspurs said:
I respect Pep, to a certain degree, I saw a clip the other day, think it was TalkSport where they were arguing who was better, SAF or Pep and when you compare them side by side, SAF is so fudging clear in terms of his achievements it's absurd.

Sky just slurp the winners, City, Liverpool in recent years more than anyone I think, GHod knows what it would have been like had the scum won it.

In hindsight, I don't think they made a big deal over Leicester winning it, nothing compared to seeing City win it again or even when Utd would win it every year for what felt like 2 decades in the 90s and early 00s.
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Yeh I saw that SAF one, I watched the Aberdeen doc on Sky and when you consider what he did there and then at United, he is untouchable for me.
 
Grays_1890 said:
Yeh I saw that SAF one, I watched the Aberdeen doc on Sky and when you consider what he did there and then at United, he is untouchable for me.
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3 league titles (he won them their first since 1954) and a cup winners cup with Aberdeen, he won Utd's first league title since 1966 too, even I was shocked at that.

Night and day for me, but Pep is Pep.

As silly as it sounds, there was talk years ago of Pep wanting the Arsenal job from Wenger a few years before he started to wind down, I think had he taken that job and very likely made them a force I'd weirdly respect him more as a manager but nah, went to the big challenge that is City.
 
superspurs said:
3 league titles (he won them their first since 1954) and a cup winners cup with Aberdeen, he won Utd's first league title since 1966 too, even I was shocked at that.

Night and day for me, but Pep is Pep.

As silly as it sounds, there was talk years ago of Pep wanting the Arsenal job from Wenger a few years before he started to wind down, I think had he taken that job and very likely made them a force I'd weirdly respect him more as a manager but nah, went to the big challenge that is City.
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Yeah agree

To sound all moneyball there is a huge unappreciation of certain managers who do alot harder jobs in my opinion which comes without CL titles that gain my support alot more and some that a ridiculed for certain perceived defects, the way Emery spoke at Arsenal being one of them that I am certain did not help his popularity with fans and media, how could it help when your managers being ridiculed in the press every week for it? I think people often overlook what Moyes did at Everton for so long, he deserved the United job and his unfashionable name and look at the time probably did for him IMO, it was proven after with LVG and JM that the job was a bigger problem than Moyes being the manager. But the one I always think of is Howe taking Bournemouth up every league and keeping them in the PL and when he was sacked the idea he was not a good manager was HUGE, he was always a very very good manager and to my original point, what he did at Bouremouth is as big as winning a CL with Barce or Emirates Marketing Project, of that I have no doubt.
 
Grays_1890 said:
Yeah agree

To sound all moneyball there is a huge unappreciation of certain managers who do alot harder jobs in my opinion which comes without CL titles that gain my support alot more and some that a ridiculed for certain perceived defects, the way Emery spoke at Arsenal being one of them that I am certain did not help his popularity with fans and media, how could it help when your managers being ridiculed in the press every week for it? I think people often overlook what Moyes did at Everton for so long, he deserved the United job and his unfashionable name and look at the time probably did for him IMO, it was proven after with LVG and JM that the job was a bigger problem than Moyes being the manager. But the one I always think of is Howe taking Bournemouth up every league and keeping them in the PL and when he was sacked the idea he was not a good manager was HUGE, he was always a very very good manager and to my original point, what he did at Bouremouth is as big as winning a CL with Barce or Emirates Marketing Project, of that I have no doubt.
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Don't disagree with any of that.

And i love a bit of moneyball!
 
Grays_1890 said:
Yeah agree

To sound all moneyball there is a huge unappreciation of certain managers who do alot harder jobs in my opinion which comes without CL titles that gain my support alot more and some that a ridiculed for certain perceived defects, the way Emery spoke at Arsenal being one of them that I am certain did not help his popularity with fans and media, how could it help when your managers being ridiculed in the press every week for it? I think people often overlook what Moyes did at Everton for so long, he deserved the United job and his unfashionable name and look at the time probably did for him IMO, it was proven after with LVG and JM that the job was a bigger problem than Moyes being the manager. But the one I always think of is Howe taking Bournemouth up every league and keeping them in the PL and when he was sacked the idea he was not a good manager was HUGE, he was always a very very good manager and to my original point, what he did at Bouremouth is as big as winning a CL with Barce or Emirates Marketing Project, of that I have no doubt.
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Moyes should never have gotten the United job IMO. The damning stat on Moyes, and this isn't just hindsight, is that with Everton, he'd beaten the then top 4 only once away from home in ~50 games. For me, that screamed a guy whose tactics just wouldn't work at the top end of the table. He did a phenomenal job at Everton but they were never really consistent challengers at the top. Moyes has always been a very good manager - not good enough to be truly elite but nowhere near as bad as he was being portrayed after United and at Sunderland. But there's no middle ground anymore, you're either magnificent or hopeless.

Howe was always a really good manager. I think that was acknowledged at Bournemouth before relegation. The problem he had was that his teams leaked goals. We'd regularly hit them for 4 or 5. I always thought he struggled to organise a defence and he had some decent defenders at the time (Ake and Mings for example). Again, once they got relegated, he was portrayed as some sort of clueless idiot because any whiff of missing an expectation is seen as damning failure. What's really impressed me about Howe is that he's come back at Saudi Sportswashing Machine and shown he's learned to organise a defence and not really sacrificed the good stuff he showed at Bournemouth to do that. I'm still hopeful he'll push on because I do think he has the potential to manage at the very top level.

Pep is on another level entirely to most. You can say he has the best players and all that and there is truth in that. But football isn't a case of just putting the best 11 on the pitch and you win automatically. The consistency, the quality of the football, it's exceptional. For me Fergie is the greatest of all time because of the fact he did it with the odds heavily stacked against him in Scotland, he rebuilt United several times and he did it over 30+ years. But Pep is also a genius IMO.
 
DeanoAustin said:
Moyes should never have gotten the United job IMO. The damning stat on Moyes, and this isn't just hindsight, is that with Everton, he'd beaten the then top 4 only once away from home in ~50 games. For me, that screamed a guy whose tactics just wouldn't work at the top end of the table. He did a phenomenal job at Everton but they were never really consistent challengers at the top. Moyes has always been a very good manager - not good enough to be truly elite but nowhere near as bad as he was being portrayed after United and at Sunderland. But there's no middle ground anymore, you're either magnificent or hopeless.

Howe was always a really good manager. I think that was acknowledged at Bournemouth before relegation. The problem he had was that his teams leaked goals. We'd regularly hit them for 4 or 5. I always thought he struggled to organise a defence and he had some decent defenders at the time (Ake and Mings for example). Again, once they got relegated, he was portrayed as some sort of clueless idiot because any whiff of missing an expectation is seen as damning failure. What's really impressed me about Howe is that he's come back at Saudi Sportswashing Machine and shown he's learned to organise a defence and not really sacrificed the good stuff he showed at Bournemouth to do that. I'm still hopeful he'll push on because I do think he has the potential to manage at the very top level.

Pep is on another level entirely to most. You can say he has the best players and all that and there is truth in that. But football isn't a case of just putting the best 11 on the pitch and you win automatically. The consistency, the quality of the football, it's exceptional. For me Fergie is the greatest of all time because of the fact he did it with the odds heavily stacked against him in Scotland, he rebuilt United several times and he did it over 30+ years. But Pep is also a genius IMO.
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I agree with the bulk of that, if not all of it. I think the Bournemouth not being able to defend was probably more a compromise on what was available than the manager not being able to set a team up to defend because they were generally a very good attacking team which when needed kept them up, till it didn't.

I think there is a real argument to say that the likes of Moyes and Howe could not have done what Pep has but equally no chance he would have taken Bournemouth up three leagues or come out of Everton over 11 years including many in the financial doldrums and only finish outside the top 7 twice, in context after years of them in serious chance of going down. My opinion of course
 
DeanoAustin said:
Moyes should never have gotten the United job IMO. The damning stat on Moyes, and this isn't just hindsight, is that with Everton, he'd beaten the then top 4 only once away from home in ~50 games. For me, that screamed a guy whose tactics just wouldn't work at the top end of the table. He did a phenomenal job at Everton but they were never really consistent challengers at the top. Moyes has always been a very good manager - not good enough to be truly elite but nowhere near as bad as he was being portrayed after United and at Sunderland. But there's no middle ground anymore, you're either magnificent or hopeless.

Howe was always a really good manager. I think that was acknowledged at Bournemouth before relegation. The problem he had was that his teams leaked goals. We'd regularly hit them for 4 or 5. I always thought he struggled to organise a defence and he had some decent defenders at the time (Ake and Mings for example). Again, once they got relegated, he was portrayed as some sort of clueless idiot because any whiff of missing an expectation is seen as damning failure. What's really impressed me about Howe is that he's come back at Saudi Sportswashing Machine and shown he's learned to organise a defence and not really sacrificed the good stuff he showed at Bournemouth to do that. I'm still hopeful he'll push on because I do think he has the potential to manage at the very top level.

Pep is on another level entirely to most. You can say he has the best players and all that and there is truth in that. But football isn't a case of just putting the best 11 on the pitch and you win automatically. The consistency, the quality of the football, it's exceptional. For me Fergie is the greatest of all time because of the fact he did it with the odds heavily stacked against him in Scotland, he rebuilt United several times and he did it over 30+ years. But Pep is also a genius IMO.
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Howe had a mare at Burnley when stepping up before
He was younger and less experienced but he did flop
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Howe had a mare at Burnley when stepping up before
He was younger and less experienced but he did flop
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Yeah he did and that's a fair point. It's another sign he can learn and evolve. Too often, players and managers are written off if they fail once. F**k me, if the rest of us were written off as quickly in our jobs, the dole queues would be a lot longer.
 
DeanoAustin said:
Moyes should never have gotten the United job IMO. The damning stat on Moyes, and this isn't just hindsight, is that with Everton, he'd beaten the then top 4 only once away from home in ~50 games. For me, that screamed a guy whose tactics just wouldn't work at the top end of the table. He did a phenomenal job at Everton but they were never really consistent challengers at the top. Moyes has always been a very good manager - not good enough to be truly elite but nowhere near as bad as he was being portrayed after United and at Sunderland. But there's no middle ground anymore, you're either magnificent or hopeless.

Howe was always a really good manager. I think that was acknowledged at Bournemouth before relegation. The problem he had was that his teams leaked goals. We'd regularly hit them for 4 or 5. I always thought he struggled to organise a defence and he had some decent defenders at the time (Ake and Mings for example). Again, once they got relegated, he was portrayed as some sort of clueless idiot because any whiff of missing an expectation is seen as damning failure. What's really impressed me about Howe is that he's come back at Saudi Sportswashing Machine and shown he's learned to organise a defence and not really sacrificed the good stuff he showed at Bournemouth to do that. I'm still hopeful he'll push on because I do think he has the potential to manage at the very top level.

Pep is on another level entirely to most. You can say he has the best players and all that and there is truth in that. But football isn't a case of just putting the best 11 on the pitch and you win automatically. The consistency, the quality of the football, it's exceptional. For me Fergie is the greatest of all time because of the fact he did it with the odds heavily stacked against him in Scotland, he rebuilt United several times and he did it over 30+ years. But Pep is also a genius IMO.
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On Moyes, I’d say how many times he avoided defeat to the top 4 was a more important stat.
 
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