Emerson Royal

[thfcsteff]

Ah yeah that's really objectively resolved the discussion then, great! When you're in the stands, only show sincere emotions on the condition that they must be positive irregardless of the reality of the situation...Have I got that right?

It can't feel great for Royal to hear thousands of people tut and groan when he shanks a cross 80 yards in the wrong way but it's a natural response. Obviously there's a way between that and some of the sickening abuse players get but the "repress your negative emotions in public" phalanx confuse me somewhat.

I think it’s pretty simple. You’ll obviously express a ‘oh no’ or ‘jesus christ’ but what about keeping it at that instead of then getting into clamy ‘ironic cheering’ or booing every subsequent move. SOME people go to matches with a pre-set agenda, and a bad touch will equal the rest of the match spent coating a player. That is flimflam.

 

[papaspur]

I have to say, watching the match on TV in the US and the feed picked up some fan screaming at the top of his lungs about how brick someone was. I have no idea whose team this guy supports or who he was screaming at but he was clearly very angry generally (would be passionate if he were Italian) and I think the commentators were actually too embarrassed to apologize for the "fruity language" for fear of even acknowledging just how vicious the utterances of this deranged man were.

Yeah, I get that it's part of the game to yell at random opposition players and tell them they're brick, but maybe fans should find some more constructive ways to vent their frustrations without having to take it out on anyone else, including other fans (you never know, a player might just come after you). Perhaps a tifo with a giant wall of text arguing the more subtle points highlighting fan disgruntlement can be organized.

 

[metalgear]

Don't know why we held on to him for so long. Not difficult or expensive to improve. I think Levy has favourites.

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[Bishop]

Don't know why we held on to him for so long. Not difficult or expensive to improve. I think Levy has favourites.

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Levy? I'm as dubious on Levy's handling of the club as anyone but clearly Conte rates him. He continuously plays him, despite having first Doherty and now Spence available.

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[spurspinter1]

I think it’s pretty simple. You’ll obviously express a ‘oh no’ or ‘jesus christ’ but what about keeping it at that instead of then getting into clamy ‘ironic cheering’ or booing every subsequent move. SOME people go to matches with a pre-set agenda, and a bad touch will equal the rest of the match spent coating a player. That is flimflam.

Love and respect ya views and thoughts Steff but finding how "simple" this subject is, is a bit high horse-y for me, there is a discussion to be had but if people just want to repeat how simple it is whilst assuming their view is the only way and not explore the themes around it, I will gracefully bow out of the discussion after this one.

People should be allowed to speak their truth within reason, whether it's positive or negative and the tribalism or animosity in this case obviously can go too far but do we want the same atmosphere you'd get at a classical concert at a football game?

I have been pretty clear throughout that I don't condone abuse of players, but the "I best not say anything negative as they're trying their best" is such an ominous route to go down, these are professional football players, not your son / daughter on a Sunday morning in the park. Next we can get everyone muzzled up and give the stewards signs with "Clap now but only if it's not a sarcastic form of clapping".

Of course some fans are taking their real life problems out on the players and it's not healthy or positive, and like you say some go in with premeditated thoughts that they wait to be validated so they can go ape brick at certain players they have an agenda against, none of this is surprising as it's human nature, but it's a case of getting rid of the baby with the bathwater or just not letting it get to you, if you asked Royal hypothetically that the abuse could disappear but the money also would, I'd guess he'd take the 80 k p/w and the bunch of fat middle aged moany Spurs fans yelling things about his crossing ability (that he himself knows isn't good enough).

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

No you don’t Chich, you’re just being a contrarian mate.

It is of vital importance that he be reminded he is brick.

 

[braineclipse]

It is of vital importance that he be reminded he is brick.

To what end? What is achieved by doing that?

Also, he isn't brick. I've seen brick players repeatedly over the years, he isn't one. He's one with some rather obvious and significant weaknesses, but also strength and overall a player good enough in a different role to play at a very high level.

 

[DubSpur]

Don't know why we held on to him for so long. Not difficult or expensive to improve. I think Levy has favourites.

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If it was down to Levy that Emerson was being played Conte would've walked long ago. It's totally down to the manager, same with every other player.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

To what end? What is achieved by doing that?

.

Couple of things, most importantly I hope he leaves the club. It also gives me a warm fuzzy feeling inside.

 

[braineclipse]

Couple of things, most importantly I hope he leaves the club. It also gives me a warm fuzzy feeling inside.

First part I can understand. Though for me I don't want our club to be the kind of club where players that are dedicated and hard working, players that try their absolute best are hounded out of the club by being booed. No matter how poorly they may be playing. Guess we want different things.

Second part I can also understand. Feels justified so feels good to aim those feelings at him. Very human thing for sure. Don't think it's a good thing to do just because it feels good in the moment though.

 

[K.D.D.D.D.Soc]

When other clubs fans do this we call them spoilt entitled clams, but dont think that's exactly what our fans are when they do it.

 

[Lemonade Money]

If it was down to Levy that Emerson was being played Conte would've walked long ago. It's totally down to the manager, same with every other player.

Lol, I had to switch on ignored content to see who came out with that rubbish.

 

[papaspur]

First part I can understand. Though for me I don't want our club to be the kind of club where players that are dedicated and hard working, players that try their absolute best are hounded out of the club by being booed. No matter how poorly they may be playing. Guess we want different things.

Second part I can also understand. Feels justified so feels good to aim those feelings at him. Very human thing for sure. Don't think it's a good thing to do just because it feels good in the moment though.

A bit of the same treatment like Sissoko got. Way too many fans here felt compelled to constantly have a go at him and from what I remember, Sissoko drew far more ire and vitriol than Emerson has on this forum at least. I do recall the fans applauding Sissoko after being subbed off for some performances and can't say I remember fans getting on his back during matches. For me, that is a real low and that's coming from someone who doesn't rate Royal at all.

 

[Bullet]

I don't think the majority of people are thinking "Emerson you are a bad person, you should perform better or leave". I believe they are trying to let Conte know that he should pick a different player to perform those duties.

Imagine if Conte picked Ben Davies at RWB; he would dash up and down and do his best, but would be a bad fit. Likewise if Hojbjerg was asked to do the role.

So the moaning is more about "Oh GHod not this tactic/formation/player/role/situation yet again, please change your mind Conte" rather than "I hate Royal"

It is like when we asked Younes Kaboul to do a job out there... it can be OK sometimes, it can be bad sometimes, but it is not his position, so Conte should not keep repeating this mistake.

 

[braineclipse]

A bit of the same treatment like Sissoko got. Way too many fans here felt compelled to constantly have a go at him and from what I remember, Sissoko drew far more ire and vitriol than Emerson has on this forum at least. I do recall the fans applauding Sissoko after being subbed off for some performances and can't say I remember fans getting on his back during matches. For me, that is a real low and that's coming from someone who doesn't rate Royal at all.

I think that's the big difference, how the player is directly treated at games. Not that outright abuse is fine on here or on twitter or elsewhere. But I think on here people mostly walk that line rather well in the majority of cases. Bit less so with Emerson.

 

[DeanoAustin]

I don't think the majority of people are thinking "Emerson you are a bad person, you should perform better or leave". I believe they are trying to let Conte know that he should pick a different player to perform those duties.

Imagine if Conte picked Ben Davies at RWB; he would dash up and down and do his best, but would be a bad fit. Likewise if Hojbjerg was asked to do the role.

So the moaning is more about "Oh GHod not this tactic/formation/player/role/situation yet again, please change your mind Conte" rather than "I hate Royal"

It is like when we asked Younes Kaboul to do a job out there... it can be OK sometimes, it can be bad sometimes, but it is not his position, so Conte should not keep repeating this mistake.

Let's suppose for a minute, that's the game here. Does Conte seem like the kind of person that'll go "Well I better listen to the thousands of people telling me what to do"? Do those fans realise that they have a manager who has 40 years' experience at the top of European football as a player and manager and is more qualified than anyone else in the stadium to make those decisions.

Yeah we all have an opinion, I'd start Doherty personally, but the once-bald, jumpy Italian in the dugout has forgotten more about the game than I'll ever know and Levy is paying him millions to manage the team. My role at the game is to support the team not tell him how to do his job (and yes I know we all leave out a "for f**k sake" at a game as a knee jerk reaction - my problem is with booing or targeting a player rather than that). Expressing negative opinions after the game in the pub or on here is fine but booing players is just counter productive.

 

[thfcsteff]

Love and respect ya views and thoughts Steff but finding how "simple" this subject is, is a bit high horse-y for me, there is a discussion to be had but if people just want to repeat how simple it is whilst assuming their view is the only way and not explore the themes around it, I will gracefully bow out of the discussion after this one.

People should be allowed to speak their truth within reason, whether it's positive or negative and the tribalism or animosity in this case obviously can go too far but do we want the same atmosphere you'd get at a classical concert at a football game?

I have been pretty clear throughout that I don't condone abuse of players, but the "I best not say anything negative as they're trying their best" is such an ominous route to go down, these are professional football players, not your son / daughter on a Sunday morning in the park. Next we can get everyone muzzled up and give the stewards signs with "Clap now but only if it's not a sarcastic form of clapping".

Of course some fans are taking their real life problems out on the players and it's not healthy or positive, and like you say some go in with premeditated thoughts that they wait to be validated so they can go ape brick at certain players they have an agenda against, none of this is surprising as it's human nature, but it's a case of getting rid of the baby with the bathwater or just not letting it get to you, if you asked Royal hypothetically that the abuse could disappear but the money also would, I'd guess he'd take the 80 k p/w and the bunch of fat middle aged moany Spurs fans yelling things about his crossing ability (that he himself knows isn't good enough).

I did say it was 'my' view mate. I don't believe I have ever said 'never say anything bad ever', indeed, even in the post you're referring to I say that we all have a moan or 'jesus christ' after a mistake or if someone is having a poor game. Of course players have to have thick skins, and they do. I stand by my disgust at people who endlessly boo players for mistakes/not playing well. Unless said player is not trying, or purposely taking the tinkle somehow. That becomes a different story. And no, I am not suggesting we turn football into the opera, just that clams who turn up at stadiums thinking they can just scream abuse at players/forget they are not behind a keyboard, can (in my frankly not 'high-horsey' way) do one!

 

[thfcsteff]

Let's suppose for a minute, that's the game here. Does Conte seem like the kind of person that'll go "Well I better listen to the thousands of people telling me what to do"? Do those fans realise that they have a manager who has 40 years' experience at the top of European football as a player and manager and is more qualified than anyone else in the stadium to make those decisions.

Yeah we all have an opinion, I'd start Doherty personally, but the once-bald, jumpy Italian in the dugout has forgotten more about the game than I'll ever know and Levy is paying him millions to manage the team. My role at the game is to support the team not tell him how to do his job (and yes I know we all leave out a "for f**k sake" at a game as a knee jerk reaction - my problem is with booing or targeting a player rather than that). Expressing negative opinions after the game in the pub or on here is fine but booing players is just counter productive.

Well said!

 

[braineclipse]

Let's suppose for a minute, that's the game here. Does Conte seem like the kind of person that'll go "Well I better listen to the thousands of people telling me what to do"? Do those fans realise that they have a manager who has 40 years' experience at the top of European football as a player and manager and is more qualified than anyone else in the stadium to make those decisions.

Yeah we all have an opinion, I'd start Doherty personally, but the once-bald, jumpy Italian in the dugout has forgotten more about the game than I'll ever know and Levy is paying him millions to manage the team. My role at the game is to support the team not tell him how to do his job (and yes I know we all leave out a "for f**k sake" at a game as a knee jerk reaction - my problem is with booing or targeting a player rather than that). Expressing negative opinions after the game in the pub or on here is fine but booing players is just counter productive.

Very well put.

The absence of negative reactions is not something anyone is calling for. But what you describe so well, plus abuse on twitter etc really is a disservice to the club imo.

 

[spurspinter1]

I did say it was 'my' view mate. I don't believe I have ever said 'never say anything bad ever', indeed, even in the post you're referring to I say that we all have a moan or 'jesus christ' after a mistake or if someone is having a poor game. Of course players have to have thick skins, and they do. I stand by my disgust at people who endlessly boo players for mistakes/not playing well. Unless said player is not trying, or purposely taking the tinkle somehow. That becomes a different story. And no, I am not suggesting we turn football into the opera, just that clams who turn up at stadiums thinking they can just scream abuse at players/forget they are not behind a keyboard, can (in my frankly not 'high-horsey' way) do one!

So you know the absolute best way to enjoy the football, and people who do it differently to you should do one? Righty o then.