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Eastleigh

japenesegardenlover said:
Well one of the big bug bears is no one is sure of the cost of the EU not the true cost, im not talking about the money we actually pay in but other things like that fact that we blindly follow the rules especailly the new eco ones that make us less attractive to over seas investment or the amount of moeny that immgration may cost, immigrants sending money home and not spending it in the economy or driving down wages for the British work force.

I would have had a Leveson type inquiry for the banking crisis(can not belive the has not been one) and also for the true cost of the EU and maybe one to see if privatizing the railways would be worth it again.

Clarky was one of the if not the best poster this site has ever had and i think this site is less for his input same goes with Milo, i know he is still around but i so enjoyed reading those 2 guys when they were talking politics and they made good points that would change my mind.

As for you noticing the right wing more, i would suggest it is because your a natural left wing person, nothing wrong in it but your just putting up with what i had to for years in the late 90's early noughties.

Also think when ever i hear someone complain about the right wing press or tabolid press as the fat old tory clown shoe ken clarke was the other day they are nearly as bad as the people who said i can't be racist i have black friends. A new thing i have seen happening is how the pro EU lot are saying things like "we need to wait and sort out the EU first, but yeah of course it needs a lot changing" is like they try to gain gravitas for their position by conceding that the is a problem, but i suspect all they are doing all along is trying to keep the status quo. Im old i have seen many people use this trick down the years.
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I don't think that's the case, if anything I've become more centrist over the past 10 years or so I've been on this board but until recently, where a few more 'left wing' posters have popped up, most topics like I said were simply people agreeing with each other over and over again. It certainly wasn't like that before.

The moment I think I decided to pull back my own participation from political discussions on this board was after the KFC trials halal meat thread. I read some pretty disgusting vitriolic posts in that thread, unchallenged till I turned up on the 2nd or 3rd page and completely destroyed the image I had of quite a few posters on this board.

On a lighter note, thought you'd enjoy this joke:


The European Commission has announced an agreement whereby English will be the official language of the European Union rather than German, which was the other possibility.

As part of the negotiations, the British Government conceded that English spelling had some room for improvement and has accepted a 5- year phase-in plan that would become known as "Euro-English".

In the first year, "s" will replace the soft "c".. Sertainly, this will make the sivil servants jump with joy. The hard "c" will be dropped in favour of "k". This should klear up konfusion, and keyboards kan have one less letter.

There will be growing publik enthusiasm in the sekond year when the troublesome "ph" will be replaced with "f".. This will make words like fotograf 20% shorter.

In the 3rd year, publik akseptanse of the new spelling kan be expekted to reach the stage where more komplikated changes * are possible.

Governments will enkourage the removal of double letters which have always ben a deterent to akurate speling.

Also, al wil agre that the horibl mes of the silent "e" in the languag is disgrasful and it should go away.

By the 4th yer people wil be reseptiv to steps such as replasing "th" with "z" and "w" with "v".

During ze fifz yer, ze unesesary "o" kan be dropd from vords kontaining "ou" and after ziz fifz yer, ve vil hav a reil sensi bl riten styl.

Zer vil be no mor trubl or difikultis and evrivun vil find it ezi TU understand ech oza. Ze drem of a united urop vil finali kum true.

Und efter ze fifz yer, ve vil al be speking German like zey vunted in ze forst plas
 
Going back to UKIP policy..........

I see our Government have just announced a package of aid to Syrian rebels, comprising armoured cars and body armour. So, effectively, military aid.

At what cost, I wonder?

Add to this our continual aid donation to the likes of India, totalling several millions per year. That's India. The country spending millions on the development of their own space programme.

UKIP policy would see overeas aid slashed, if not stopped completely, until such time we could get our own house in order, and then re-evaluate.
 
Crawley said:
Going back to UKIP policy..........

I see our Government have just announced a package of aid to Syrian rebels, comprising armoured cars and body armour. So, effectively, military aid.

At what cost, I wonder?

Add to this our continual aid donation to the likes of India, totalling several millions per year. That's India. The country spending millions on the development of their own space programme.

UKIP policy would see overeas aid slashed, if not stopped completely, until such time we could get our own house in order, and then re-evaluate.
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Isn't this what every English citizen should want? Why increase our own debts/problems to help other countries when were in such a state?
 
Crawley said:
Going back to UKIP policy..........

I see our Government have just announced a package of aid to Syrian rebels, comprising armoured cars and body armour. So, effectively, military aid.

At what cost, I wonder?

Add to this our continual aid donation to the likes of India, totalling several millions per year. That's India. The country spending millions on the development of their own space programme.

UKIP policy would see overeas aid slashed, if not stopped completely, until such time we could get our own house in order, and then re-evaluate.
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Again, like the EC we only ever get to see the Sun and Mail headlines but I'm willing to bet there's far more benefit to us sending money abroad in aid then is admitted for reason of political expediency. Supplying aid to rebels gives us a foothold in an area we often didn't have, when they come to power there's always a payback, politicians don't discuss this openly but Libya has oil, Syria has oil, it's not hard to see the motives.

[rant]Aid to Africa is the one that gets everybody, I'm sick of the sight of Lenny Henry pleading for money to be poured into the black hole that is Africa while people sleep in shop doorways in this country, I'm 53 and one of the few constants in my life has been the appeals for a couple of bob to turn Africa around, it's one of my earliest memories but nothing seems to change, where's all that money gone? [/rant]
 
The money we sent to Africa is indeed puzzling. £30 odd million every year in comic relief alone. I'd seriously like to see a breakdown of where its gone.

William Hill are currently sending staff (Led by Robbie fudging Savage) to Africa to build houses and schools. Great idea. Excellent in fact. However, the money side of it gets me hot under the collar too.

Also, and totally IMO, why have so many kids if your that poor?
 
Gordinho said:
Again, like the EC we only ever get to see the Sun and Mail headlines but I'm willing to bet there's far more benefit to us sending money abroad in aid then is admitted for reason of political expediency. Supplying aid to rebels gives us a foothold in an area we often didn't have, when they come to power there's always a payback, politicians don't discuss this openly but Libya has oil, Syria has oil, it's not hard to see the motives.

[rant]Aid to Africa is the one that gets everybody, I'm sick of the sight of Lenny Henry pleading for money to be poured into the black hole that is Africa while people sleep in shop doorways in this country, I'm 53 and one of the few constants in my life has been the appeals for a couple of bob to turn Africa around, it's one of my earliest memories but nothing seems to change, where's all that money gone? [/rant]
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Going back many years, didn't we used to pump money into the likes of Iran/Iraq?

Look what those fudgers think of us now.
 
Crawley said:
Going back many years, didn't we used to pump money into the likes of Iran/Iraq?

Look what those fudgers think of us now.
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We used to pump money into Iraq so that Saddam could continue bombing and gassing Iranians and Iraq rebels at will.

Unfortunately, as occasionally happens when you arm a psychopathic, unpredictable and genocidal dictator, he realised his cowardly war on Iran wasn't going anywhere and then decided to invade one of our allies.

All very pleasant stuff.

The Iraqis probably aren't too fond of us or the Americans ever since we imposed those sanctions which killed hundreds of thousands and then invaded and destroyed their country. I feel like things like that might just trigger bitterness in most people.
 
Gordinho said:
Again, like the EC we only ever get to see the Sun and Mail headlines but I'm willing to bet there's far more benefit to us sending money abroad in aid then is admitted for reason of political expediency. Supplying aid to rebels gives us a foothold in an area we often didn't have, when they come to power there's always a payback, politicians don't discuss this openly but Libya has oil, Syria has oil, it's not hard to see the motives.

[rant]Aid to Africa is the one that gets everybody, I'm sick of the sight of Lenny Henry pleading for money to be poured into the black hole that is Africa while people sleep in shop doorways in this country, I'm 53 and one of the few constants in my life has been the appeals for a couple of bob to turn Africa around, it's one of my earliest memories but nothing seems to change, where's all that money gone? [/rant]
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Gordi i seem to remember you saying that william hague when in opposition was saying that Browns government were doing arms deals and signing contracts for the army that would cost so much money they would hurt the next governemnt you disagreed with this. But i have seen army Majors come out and admit that they agreed with the government and signed up to things that they knew we as a country could not afford.

My point is i do not trust politicans.

With regards India and sending aid to them while they are creating a space programme but they have masses of poor sleeping in huts with no water or toilets. Well i do not know what the right wing press say about this and it does not matter. I have watched countless travel programmes usualy with some has been comedian where they go round india and i can see it for myself, then i see the itv news and see that india are buidling a space programme i can work this out for myself.

Biggest issue i have today is with people resorting to blaming the right wing media for things and giving them more power then they really have. The key is to debate the issues head on. We pay a lot into the EU directly and indirectly, this at a time when we need to save money and attract business to the country, when we need to cut red tape so we can get business and innovation moving to trade out of our massive debt.

If we have to make savings then the EU is one of the first things we should look at, i can not even believe that in the brick state the economy and country is in we are increasing our budget to them, i just can not get my head round that.
 
Also as some of you were talking at the top of this thread about referendums i thought i would give you a link well do it to the guardian so you feel ok about opening it. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/mar/03/swiss-referendum-executive-pay

Seems to work well for the swiss and they have a lovely country, also i bet they do not loss to many bankers through cutting their bonuses, so cameron should do similar. But i do think referendums would help engage people more in politics, would be a good thing.
 
I prefer culture change to referenda.

Culture change is the representation of a bigger picture whereas I feel a referendum is a snapshot of a mood.
 
scaramanga said:
Because the ****s in the Catholic Church told them all they'd go to hell if they avoided things like over-population and the spread of AIDS.
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I'm a catholic myself but, I couldn't agree more with you on that sort of thing - off topic but, the catholic church has some massive problems (understatement). I find it laughable that there is supposedly a select group of people (chosen by a smaller and even more select group of people) who know better than myself and others about what we can feel is moral or not, however that's probably a problem with religion in general. A lot of it limits progression and it makes me sick.
 
japenesegardenlover said:
Gordi i seem to remember you saying that william hague when in opposition was saying that Browns government were doing arms deals and signing contracts for the army that would cost so much money they would hurt the next governemnt you disagreed with this. But i have seen army Majors come out and admit that they agreed with the government and signed up to things that they knew we as a country could not afford.

I genuinely don't recall that so I have no choice to bow to your greater memory. Perhaps I was stuck in the frame of mind where I still believed that politicians may occasionally show some integrity.



Biggest issue i have today is with people resorting to blaming the right wing media for things and giving them more power then they really have. The key is to debate the issues head on. We pay a lot into the EU directly and indirectly, this at a time when we need to save money and attract business to the country, when we need to cut red tape so we can get business and innovation moving to trade out of our massive debt.
.
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I would say that the Sun and the Mail are the two biggest opinion formers in the mass media today. The Sun for those who don't give a fig what others think of them and the Mail for those who believe they're "getting on" and think they're middle class when they are in fact clerical workers and wage slaves like the rest of us.

The Sun has done an awful lot to shape society but very, very little of it for the good. They've spent years glorifying awful behaviour to the point where kids today think it's normal to have no moral compass whatsoever, I could go on but that's only the start, there's a whole other thread on the positive v negative affects of the Murdoch empire on British life.
 
Crawley said:
Going back to UKIP policy..........

I see our Government have just announced a package of aid to Syrian rebels, comprising armoured cars and body armour. So, effectively, military aid.

At what cost, I wonder?

Add to this our continual aid donation to the likes of India, totalling several millions per year. That's India. The country spending millions on the development of their own space programme.

UKIP policy would see overeas aid slashed, if not stopped completely, until such time we could get our own house in order, and then re-evaluate.
Click to expand...



And this morning I see that our very own 7th Army, the renowned "Desert Rats", have had their tanks taken away as part of the armed forces cuts. You couldn't make it up.
 
Gordinho said:
I would say that the Sun and the Mail are the two biggest opinion formers in the mass media today. The Sun for those who don't give a fig what others think of them and the Mail for those who believe they're "getting on" and think they're middle class when they are in fact clerical workers and wage slaves like the rest of us.

The Sun has done an awful lot to shape society but very, very little of it for the good. They've spent years glorifying awful behaviour to the point where kids today think it's normal to have no moral compass whatsoever, I could go on but that's only the start, there's a whole other thread on the positive v negative affects of the Murdoch empire on British life.
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Is that not just what someone who is left wing would say? i mean i could criticise the guardian and how the people like judges read this left wing vile self hating rubbish and then go against what the majority of the public thinks is fair.

Im not sure on the death penalty, maybe for the most serious cases. But lets say after some poor child gets killed and the sun came out with a campaign for the death penalty and the public opinon was behind it. Should we then have that death penalty or should we not havee it because a small readership at the guardian and its liberal elite think they know better then the people.

Ken clarke and a few others have come out recently saying that we should be careful in how we talk about foreign people coming to the country and how we treat them because we could end up with a sitaution like germany in the 1930's. What i would say is that we have gone to far to the left and it is the lefts fault if the is a massive shift to the right.

If labour in the 2000's had been more centrist and actually stood up for the working class and their rights in this country then people would not feel the need to shift to the right. But labour did not want to make the unemployed in the north go out and get jobs, which would have been the best thing for them, so they got east europeans in to keep down the wages of the poor working class guys who actually go out and work.

My view maybe biased because of my politics but i truly believe labour started all this.

When it comes down to it i guess all our political views come from a place of our own history, so a lot of people who are immigrants will want to see more protection for immigrants, while people that have a long family history in this country will want to see their way of life protected. It does not make either side wrong, but when you have an indigenous population that is quite large then yes they might read the daily mail but it does not make them wrong.

The are two classes of people in this country those who work and those who don't need to whether it because they have so much money or because they live on benefits.

I often here the left or socialists say that people should not be afraid of people that are different from them, something i agree with, but it goes both ways and the left should not be afraid of people with conservative views or people that wish to protect ehir way of life.
 
japenesegardenlover said:
Also as some of you were talking at the top of this thread about referendums i thought i would give you a link well do it to the guardian so you feel ok about opening it. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/mar/03/swiss-referendum-executive-pay

Seems to work well for the swiss and they have a lovely country, also i bet they do not loss to many bankers through cutting their bonuses, so cameron should do similar. But i do think referendums would help engage people more in politics, would be a good thing.
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Considering the UK is responsible for 40% of all financial services in Europe, I have no doubt that such legislation in Switzerland will drive the bankers to Britain. Fantastic IMO.

The bashing of bankers has to stop. Why are we in a financial mess? The bankers gave loans to people who couldn't afford them. The idiots who took out 120% mortgages are equally to blame. The real problem is that the governement decided these banks were too big to fail. Should have let them collapse and had new ones rise in their place.
 
Gordinho;320928S said:
I would say that the un and the Mail are the two biggest opinion formers in the mass media today. The Sun for those who don't give a fig what others think of them and the Mail for those who believe they're "getting on" and think they're middle class when they are in fact clerical workers and wage slaves like the rest of us.

The Sun has done an awful lot to shape society but very, very little of it for the good. They've spent years glorifying awful behaviour to the point where kids today think it's normal to have no moral compass whatsoever, I could go on but that's only the start, there's a whole other thread on the positive v negative affects of the Murdoch empire on British life.
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I get confronted with these sorts of opinions reguarly, but I think it's the other way round. These papers are merely reflecting the views of the nation, not creating them. Sure they are sensationalist, but they are popular because people hold these beliefs, not so much the other way around.
 
Richie said:
I get confronted with these sorts of opinions reguarly, but I think it's the other way round. These papers are merely reflecting the views of the nation, not creating them. Sure they are sensationalist, but they are popular because people hold these beliefs, not so much the other way around.
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Pretty much the way i think, often i will be thinking something about an issue then if i am on a train and i pick up a paper that someone has left behind i will read it and think "yeah we all know it" if the mail is moaning about the EU, just often thought that people who did not agree with your political point will try to undermine it by usuing the old right wing press thing.

I now pretty much turn off the t.v. as soon as some comedian turns on the daily mail, not because i read the paper. The only paper i have brought in the last 5 years is the sunday times very rarely and the racing post. But i just find it such a cop out of a response to blame a paper for peoples opinons if you have a different opinon.

Anyway as ever i have enjoyed this thread but my life is now going to become very very busy so it is a goodbye from me, i shall be here from time to time of course.
 
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