Gordinho
Banned
I'm not sure Bob Crow's ever been compared to Marlon Brando before!
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Eastleigh
- Thread starter Crawley
- Start date
Steed Train
Clive Wilson
No one ever seems to ask the simple question. If the EU is so brick, why are we in it? Surely if it was just driving voters away and had no tangible benefit, leaving would be a political coupe
Well free trade is good for some, free movement of people. Don't forget many countries end up with money back, only a few are net contributors (like us). Some find having common shared laws to be beneficial to them but a lot depends on the culture.
Also not strictly the EU but the euro can be beneficial for some like Germany where it was relatively undervalued relative to their economy which enabled them to become a very wealthy and stable economy.
Loads of other reasons as well.
Also not strictly the EU but the euro can be beneficial for some like Germany where it was relatively undervalued relative to their economy which enabled them to become a very wealthy and stable economy.
Loads of other reasons as well.
Gordinho
Banned
After nigh on forty years in it and with umpteen changes of government yet no serious attempt to leave it then as you say the benefits must outweigh the negatives, so are we saying that consecutive governments of various hues are happy to have a modicum of protest as it's a useful diversion from bigger issues they're struggling with?
Danishfurniturelover
the prettiest spice girl
When i started to get tired working labouring and wanted to have a future that did not cripple me i looked for a skilled job.
The politicans when they cant get elected in this country and want an easy life they go to europe, is a massive pay off for them all. Google Neil Kinnocks pension if you want to know why no politican will ever try to come out of the EU. That guy never won an election but is treated like a GHod out there.
I see the left bring up how the americans think we should stay in Europe, this is the left that spends its whole time slagging off the Americans. For the record the only reason America wants us to stay in the EU is for us to do their dirty work. Like how we tried to convince the Germans and the French to go into stupid wars.
The Americans want whats best for them, no harm in that. The French and the Germans want whats best for them, the GAP for the french and the germans have a export market.
The British still want to try and please the rest of the world through guilt about the empire. Our politicans are the biggest fudge up of many fudge ups in this country. I hate them and will cheer the day the finally get caught out.
Danishfurniturelover
the prettiest spice girl
We have not been given a vote on it though have we? why are they so afraid our letting the people decide.
Watched a play last night you would have loved gordi, it made out howard wilson to be a hero and thatcher to be a brute. I would have got up and shouted abuse had it not been for my bad back.
Notmegov
Roman Pavlyuchenko
Cars not a good example... We are net exporters of cars. http://www.mirror.co.uk/money/city-news/britain-exports-more-cars-than-it-imports-834701
But I tend to agree with you though.
Gordinho
Banned
I'm probably out of step here but I don't like referendums, I believe elected parties should be free to govern, if we want to change the way our parties govern we have our opportunity at the ballot box. MPs are free to defect to UKIP as well if they don't like their party's stance on Europe (bit deceitful to get elected on party lines then jump ship though).
I think the anti-Europe feeling about at the moment is another manifestation of the "we're having a bad time at the moment so let's blame it on immigrants" syndrome. In short, when times are hard nationalism and xenophobia come to the fore. There was a referendum on this in 1975 with more than two thirds of voters choosing to stay in. No coincidence that the country was in the doldrums then and dissenting voices managed to get the referendum held.
I'm guessing that if there was a free vote among MPs tomorrow with a simple Yes/No answer to the question Should We leave The EC then MPs would weigh up all the pros and cons and we'd stay in. Don't get me wrong, I'm neither pro or anti Europe, I just think that there are more benefits to being in Europe than MPs choose to make public or they'd have made the decision long ago to take us out.
What was the name of the play?
jts1882
Dean Richards
Agree about referenda being a poor system. We have elected MPs to represent us an make decisions on a variety of issues which should mostly please us but not all the time. In referenda we would vote for more spending and less taxes, while the MPs should be balancing the two. California is in a mess because they have Reagan era propositions (=referenda) controlling property taxes and all sorts mandated spending (e.g. K12 education) which leaves the elected government of the day with little freedom of action. Votes from thirty years ago dictate what recently elected politicians can do. Unfortunately the modern mentality is to expect the MPs to do what we want in every case and the MPs pander to us, a big reason why there are debt and budget crises in most of the democratic world.
In principle I don't mind referenda on important constitutional issues, but for important issues like EU membership or Scottish independence a simple 50% plus one majority is unsuitable. Say 50.00001% vote for EU withdrawal now, it might be 50.00001% against next month, and you can't keep leaving and rejoining. It either needs a supermajority, like constitutional changes in the US, or some form of consistent pattern over a number of years (e.g. majorities in support in votes taken say a decade apart).
The proposed referendum on Europe now is a bit stupid. With the Euro crisis they are going to have to make major changes to the EU treaties to save the Euro and this will take time. We should wait until we see what the new treaties look like before making a decision. Instead if the Conservatives win the next election, we will make an important decision on our future on how we guess the treaties will turn out and using a simple majority where a few votes could be decisive.
In principle I don't mind referenda on important constitutional issues, but for important issues like EU membership or Scottish independence a simple 50% plus one majority is unsuitable. Say 50.00001% vote for EU withdrawal now, it might be 50.00001% against next month, and you can't keep leaving and rejoining. It either needs a supermajority, like constitutional changes in the US, or some form of consistent pattern over a number of years (e.g. majorities in support in votes taken say a decade apart).
The proposed referendum on Europe now is a bit stupid. With the Euro crisis they are going to have to make major changes to the EU treaties to save the Euro and this will take time. We should wait until we see what the new treaties look like before making a decision. Instead if the Conservatives win the next election, we will make an important decision on our future on how we guess the treaties will turn out and using a simple majority where a few votes could be decisive.
Gilzeantoscore
Justin Edinburgh
Who's 'Howard Wilson' ? Oh you mean Harold Wilson the Labour prime minister and latter day Russian spy. :ross:
Gordinho
Banned
I'm not entirely sure why that comment was directed at me, it's Chich who has twice mistaken Harold Wison for Howard but I am big enough to concentrate on the points he was putting across in his posts re Wilson than petty point scoring.
Gilzeantoscore
Justin Edinburgh
I'm not entirely sure why that comment was directed at me, it's Chich who has twice mistaken Harold Wison for Howard but I am big enough to concentrate on the points he was putting across in his posts re Wilson than petty point scoring.
Sorry quoted wrong post. Yeah his posts are seriously learned polemics... not!
Danishfurniturelover
the prettiest spice girl
I'm not entirely sure why that comment was directed at me, it's Chich who has twice mistaken Harold Wison for Howard but I am big enough to concentrate on the points he was putting across in his posts re Wilson than petty point scoring.
He will always be howard to me.
Danishfurniturelover
the prettiest spice girl
Hmm you should be a labour politican only wanting a referendum when it suits
funny how it is mainly the left that thinks that way about us getting a vote on europe. But then it is a union and i know how much you people like those things.No harm fellas it takes all sorts to make the world go round and your both good posters and good guys, your just completely wrong about everything political just like howard wilson was:lol:
Danishfurniturelover
the prettiest spice girl
Oh yeah sure the EU is suddenly going to become less involved in countries business. Everyone knows the EU wants to become the united states of europe and what changes do you think they are going to make exactly?
They wont make any they are con merchants and im long enough in the tooth to see the game they are playing. The is no need to wait to see what happens, anti EU feelings have been there for a long time and have been steadily growing. The left have to find a way to belittle them it is what left wing politics does best, actually it is all the left do.
Gordinho
Banned
FFS jts! You've started him off now, this will go one of two ways, he'll either drink a bottle of Scotch and then fill the bath with balloons and masturbate or he'll go into town and punch a rock legend's lights out.
It'll all end in tears.
Danishfurniturelover
the prettiest spice girl
FFS jts! You've started him off now, this will go one of two ways, he'll either drink a bottle of Scotch and then fill the bath with balloons and masturbate or he'll go into town and punch a rock legend's lights out.
It'll all end in tears.
Why cant i do both gordi? why?
fao jts, i do not buy any newspaper i just read them all online. I have been against the EU for years and it is my one policy view that seems to be the same as the rest of the country if you believe the opinon polls. One reason why i happen to think im right.
now im off to find the scotch but not to much i have a 200 mile drive tomorrow then i hope to come home to find a positive result.
Danishfurniturelover
the prettiest spice girl
My true colours? i have said for years i have been a UKIP member long before we became fashionable, i always knew i was a trend setter. But yeah i love maggie i will never hide that, the woman is a GHod.