Djed Spence

[Bishop]

Indeed. I do find it funny that two managers before Ange chose not to play Spence, yet the one who actually has is the one getting criticised for not playing him earlier. It's pretty obvious that Spence had previous issues outside his actual footballing ability, even during his loan at Leeds his contract was terminated because Farke had issues with his attitude - I didn't see anyone on here then complaining about Ange not playing him. Ange sent him out on loan in Italy, and he likely matured over there and we are now reaping the benefits. But the fact Ange is now getting criticised by some on here for not using him earlier is hilarious.....

You've forgotten all the criticism Conte got for not playing Spence and using him as a pawn in his anti "club signing" rhetoric. The truth is both managers have been criticised for not playing Spence.

Now Ange is finally playing him he's obviously going to be questioned by those who have always wanted him to get those minutes just like Conte was with Spence and Sarr.

 

[NaijaSpurs]

Indeed. I do find it funny that two managers before Ange chose not to play Spence, yet the one who actually has is the one getting criticised for not playing him earlier. It's pretty obvious that Spence had previous issues outside his actual footballing ability, even during his loan at Leeds his contract was terminated because Farke had issues with his attitude - I didn't see anyone on here then complaining about Ange not playing him. Ange sent him out on loan in Italy, and he likely matured over there and we are now reaping the benefits. But the fact Ange is now getting criticised by some on here for not using him earlier is hilarious.....

I figure Ange is getting criticism because the player subsequently signed a new contract and still was not being played. Udogie was then not rotated and run into the ground, and then when he has no other options did he start playing Spence. Yep, I find that hilarious.

 

[harr1984]

I figure Ange is getting criticism because the player subsequently signed a new contract and still was not being played. Udogie was then not rotated and run into the ground, and then when he has no other options did he start playing Spence. Yep, I find that hilarious.

Spence started the season getting some minutes off the bench, which shows Ange was willing to integrate him. Spence then got injured. Spence then returned to the bench after injury, but yes Udogie was being played - noone on here knows how match fit or ready to start playing again Spence was. But we should definitely have just put Spence straight back in regardless of fitness, it's not like Ange doing that has backfired before and people on here have whinged about it.....

 

[NaijaSpurs]

Spence started the season getting some minutes off the bench, which shows Ange was willing to integrate him. Spence then got injured. Spence then returned to the bench after injury, but yes Udogie was being played - noone on here knows how match fit or ready to start playing again Spence was. But we should definitely have just put Spence straight back in regardless of fitness, it's not like Ange doing that has backfired before and people on here have whinged about it.....

No, that is blatantly not true. He only played Spence when he was forced to. Spence started the season getting hardly any minutes on the bench. As for people peddling this nonsense tthat he was not picked because he was injured is just poppyrooster. He only missed 4 games due to injury starting from the 19 October. How about we just look at the facts:

19 Aug: Leicester away - Spence 89th minute substitute
24 Aug: Everton home - Spence 73th minute substitute
01 Sep Saudi Sportswashing Machine away - Spence unused substitute
15 Sep Arsenal home - Spence unused substitute
18 Sep Coventry away - Spence 46th minute substitute (came on as Udogie had a knock. Scored a goal and was one of the best players on the pitch)
21 Sep Brentford home - Spence unused substitute
29 Sep Man Utd away - Spence 46th minute substitute (came on as Udogie had a knock and looked very good)
06 Oct Brighton away - Spence unused substitute

So it was not until our next match on the 19th October (2 months into the season) that Spence missed his first match due to injury. By this time Spence has played just 108 minutes all season. Now considering Spence was not registered in the Europe League that is not very poor rotation with Porro and Udogie. In fact the only two occasions he played 45 minutes was when Udogie picked up a knock and went off at half time.

19 Oct West Ham home - Unavailable for the first time due to injury
27 Oct Palace away - Unavailable due to injury
30 Oct Emirates Marketing Project home - Unavailable due to injury
03 Nov Villa home - Unavailable due to injury

10 Nov Ipswich away - Spence unused substitute
23 Nov Emirates Marketing Project away - Spence 89 minute substitute
01 Dec Fulham home - Spence unused substitute
05 Dec Bournemouth away - Spence unused substitute
08 Dec Chelsea home - Spence unused substitute
15 Dec Southampton - Wow! at last he starts his first league match of the season

Now overall I am in favour of Ange's stewardship at Spurs. But if he makes a poor decision I will criticise him and the above proves his management of Spence was poor. Not only did Spence not get enough game time but Porro looked knackered as did Udogie before his body finally gave in.

 

[Muttley]

No, that is blatantly not true. He only played Spence when he was forced to. Spence started the season getting hardly any minutes on the bench. As for people peddling this nonsense tthat he was not picked because he was injured is just poppyrooster. He only missed 4 games due to injury starting from the 19 October. How about we just look at the facts:

19 Aug: Leicester away - Spence 89th minute substitute
24 Aug: Everton home - Spence 73th minute substitute
01 Sep Saudi Sportswashing Machine away - Spence unused substitute
15 Sep Arsenal home - Spence unused substitute
18 Sep Coventry away - Spence 46th minute substitute (came on as Udogie had a knock. Scored a goal and was one of the best players on the pitch)
21 Sep Brentford home - Spence unused substitute
29 Sep Man Utd away - Spence 46th minute substitute (came on as Udogie had a knock and looked very good)
06 Oct Brighton away - Spence unused substitute

So it was not until our next match on the 19th October (2 months into the season) that Spence missed his first match due to injury. By this time Spence has played just 108 minutes all season. Now considering Spence was not registered in the Europe League that is not very poor rotation with Porro and Udogie. In fact the only two occasions he played 45 minutes was when Udogie picked up a knock and went off at half time.

19 Oct West Ham home - Unavailable for the first time due to injury
27 Oct Palace away - Unavailable due to injury
30 Oct Emirates Marketing Project home - Unavailable due to injury
03 Nov Villa home - Unavailable due to injury

10 Nov Ipswich away - Spence unused substitute
23 Nov Emirates Marketing Project away - Spence 89 minute substitute
01 Dec Fulham home - Spence unused substitute
05 Dec Bournemouth away - Spence unused substitute
08 Dec Chelsea home - Spence unused substitute
15 Dec Southampton - Wow! at last he starts his first league match of the season

Now overall I am in favour of Ange's stewardship at Spurs. But if he makes a poor decision I will criticise him and the above proves his management of Spence was poor. Not only did Spence not get enough game time but Porro looked knackered as did Udogie before his body finally gave in.

I'm with you on this one. Udogie went down with a bad hamstring injury in April and wasn't fit again until Aug 7. That Utd game where he was withdrawn is also listed as hamstring, and obviously he's now out with his 3rd hamstring injury missing 17 games for Spurs in total and counting.

With no Reggie or Spence in Europe, he's played 3 additional games above the 18 PL games he's started. He's come on in another two.

On the surface it doesn't look like Udogie is being protected well enough by THFC. Whether that is down to choices in the EL squad, or lack of rotation in the PL, we've clearly lost our first choice LB again. Even though Spence can do a job at LB, I don't like the decision process around Reggie either. Your job as Spurs manager is to fully optimise the squad you're given between transfer windows. It feels like Ange has made it smaller than it needed to be.

 

[harr1984]

No, that is blatantly not true. He only played Spence when he was forced to. Spence started the season getting hardly any minutes on the bench. As for people peddling this nonsense tthat he was not picked because he was injured is just poppyrooster. He only missed 4 games due to injury starting from the 19 October. How about we just look at the facts:

19 Aug: Leicester away - Spence 89th minute substitute
24 Aug: Everton home - Spence 73th minute substitute
01 Sep Saudi Sportswashing Machine away - Spence unused substitute
15 Sep Arsenal home - Spence unused substitute
18 Sep Coventry away - Spence 46th minute substitute (came on as Udogie had a knock. Scored a goal and was one of the best players on the pitch)
21 Sep Brentford home - Spence unused substitute
29 Sep Man Utd away - Spence 46th minute substitute (came on as Udogie had a knock and looked very good)
06 Oct Brighton away - Spence unused substitute

So it was not until our next match on the 19th October (2 months into the season) that Spence missed his first match due to injury. By this time Spence has played just 108 minutes all season. Now considering Spence was not registered in the Europe League that is not very poor rotation with Porro and Udogie. In fact the only two occasions he played 45 minutes was when Udogie picked up a knock and went off at half time.

19 Oct West Ham home - Unavailable for the first time due to injury
27 Oct Palace away - Unavailable due to injury
30 Oct Emirates Marketing Project home - Unavailable due to injury
03 Nov Villa home - Unavailable due to injury

10 Nov Ipswich away - Spence unused substitute
23 Nov Emirates Marketing Project away - Spence 89 minute substitute
01 Dec Fulham home - Spence unused substitute
05 Dec Bournemouth away - Spence unused substitute
08 Dec Chelsea home - Spence unused substitute
15 Dec Southampton - Wow! at last he starts his first league match of the season

Now overall I am in favour of Ange's stewardship at Spurs. But if he makes a poor decision I will criticise him and the above proves his management of Spence was poor. Not only did Spence not get enough game time but Porro looked knackered as did Udogie before his body finally gave in.

Ange didn't have to do anything he didn't want to. I said he started the season on the bench getting some minutes, and you have just shown that was the case. If Ange didn't want to use the player he wouldn't, at least until the time our injury crisis got so bad ie what happened with Reggie. He then got injured, returned from injury and yes there was a period before he was used again but the point is you have no idea what was going on with his fitness to know how best he should be utilised.

All you are demonstrating is typical armchair football management, we are talking about a player who has shown attitude problems in the past (and not just speculation) so it's not as simple as just play him - he has to show the manager that he wants it, that he really wants it and we have no idea what he's been doing in training. The fact that Ange has held him back, and then unleashed him could be part of the reason why he is putting in such performances (obviously he has the talent aswell). Quite simply, I would have like to have seen Spence used more but I'm not going to criticise the manager when I don't have the facts about the fitness and other aspects of our players.....

 

[billyiddo]

The attitude problem is an easy crutch to fall back on as a get out for the debate but Ange spoke quite clearly in the summer about how Spence was impressing everyone at the club with his attitude and application in training - so unless there's any actual evidence beyond 2+2ing his lack of game time i don't see it

 

[braineclipse]

The attitude problem is an easy crutch to fall back on as a get out for the debate but Ange spoke quite clearly in the summer about how Spence was impressing everyone at the club with his attitude and application in training - so unless there's any actual evidence beyond 2+2ing his lack of game time i don't see it

My main point is that we don't know. To me it's those claiming that Ange got it wrong who are 2+2ing.

Could be attitude and mentality. Don't think it's beyond reason for a manager to want to see both impressive things in the summer, but also how a player deals with the disappointment of not getting picked before trusting a player with reported attitude issues earlier on.
Could be that despite glowing reviews in the summer he wasn't showing quite the same attitude later on and Ange wanted to see a change before integrated him.

Could be tactical. He's now being used in a different role and different system to what he's played before. And at a higher level. Perhaps Ange wanted some time on the training ground to work on things before integrating him more.

Could be that despite being on the bench he was still not fully fit and Ange wanting him to get fitter before integrating him.

Could be that Ange got it wrong and didn't rate him as ready for the here and now when he actually was.

Could be that Ange rated Gray higher than him as a full back at that time. Could be that Ange rated giving Gray game time as more important.

We don't know and we don't know if Ange got it wrong.

 

[Muttley]

My main point is that we don't know. To me it's those claiming that Ange got it wrong who are 2+2ing.

Could be attitude and mentality. Don't think it's beyond reason for a manager to want to see both impressive things in the summer, but also how a player deals with the disappointment of not getting picked before trusting a player with reported attitude issues earlier on.
Could be that despite glowing reviews in the summer he wasn't showing quite the same attitude later on and Ange wanted to see a change before integrated him.

Could be tactical. He's now being used in a different role and different system to what he's played before. And at a higher level. Perhaps Ange wanted some time on the training ground to work on things before integrating him more.

Could be that despite being on the bench he was still not fully fit and Ange wanting him to get fitter before integrating him.

Could be that Ange got it wrong and didn't rate him as ready for the here and now when he actually was.

Could be that Ange rated Gray higher than him as a full back at that time. Could be that Ange rated giving Gray game time as more important.

We don't know and we don't know if Ange got it wrong.

Whilst that might all be logical, my instinct is that if we gave Ange the opportunity to run this season again he would do it differently. He is only human after all. It feels like the decision to not select Spence and Reggie in the EL wasn't the right one, especially as we don't really have any U21s naturally filling the list B slots. We also all saw the Udogie injury after putting in a massive shift for his manager. Nobody was surprised he finally broke. Nobody will be surprised if we lose Porro to a similar injury either.

 

[RunTMC]

The attitude problem is an easy crutch to fall back on as a get out for the debate but Ange spoke quite clearly in the summer about how Spence was impressing everyone at the club with his attitude and application in training - so unless there's any actual evidence beyond 2+2ing his lack of game time i don't see it

Plus he signed a new contract. You don’t reward a guy who has a bad attitude with a new contract

 

[harr1984]

The attitude problem is an easy crutch to fall back on as a get out for the debate but Ange spoke quite clearly in the summer about how Spence was impressing everyone at the club with his attitude and application in training - so unless there's any actual evidence beyond 2+2ing his lack of game time i don't see it

Yes exactly, he impressed him this summer with his attitude so was integrating him back in - that doesn't mean he was just going to be getting starts straight away. And even if worst case scenario (which I dont believe) Ange wasn't keen and then Spence only got his chance because of injuries - so what? It happens all the time at various clubs, a player not in the thinking of the manager and then he gets the opportunity to play and he takes it and then he keeps his place. What exactly is the big deal, he got sent back early from Leeds because of his attitude and since has gone to Italy and likely matured and now he is building up minutes here and if he continues as he is will be a genuine threat to the starting eleven when everyone is fit. Happy days....

 

[Yiddo]

Has a back 3 of Kinky, Spence and Gray conceded a goal yet?

 

[Bishop]

My main point is that we don't know. To me it's those claiming that Ange got it wrong who are 2+2ing.

Could be attitude and mentality. Don't think it's beyond reason for a manager to want to see both impressive things in the summer, but also how a player deals with the disappointment of not getting picked before trusting a player with reported attitude issues earlier on.
Could be that despite glowing reviews in the summer he wasn't showing quite the same attitude later on and Ange wanted to see a change before integrated him.

Could be tactical. He's now being used in a different role and different system to what he's played before. And at a higher level. Perhaps Ange wanted some time on the training ground to work on things before integrating him more.

Could be that despite being on the bench he was still not fully fit and Ange wanting him to get fitter before integrating him.

Could be that Ange got it wrong and didn't rate him as ready for the here and now when he actually was.

Could be that Ange rated Gray higher than him as a full back at that time. Could be that Ange rated giving Gray game time as more important.

We don't know and we don't know if Ange got it wrong.

If Ange really rates Gray more than Spence at LB I find that very, very, very concerning. Gray was awful at LB, constantly beaten by any with pace or trickery and he could neither overlap or invert. There's no way anyone with eyes can think Gray is a better LB than Spence.

 

[Bishop]

Yes exactly, he impressed him this summer with his attitude so was integrating him back in - that doesn't mean he was just going to be getting starts straight away. And even if worst case scenario (which I dont believe) Ange wasn't keen and then Spence only got his chance because of injuries - so what? It happens all the time at various clubs, a player not in the thinking of the manager and then he gets the opportunity to play and he takes it and then he keeps his place. What exactly is the big deal, he got sent back early from Leeds because of his attitude and since has gone to Italy and likely matured and now he is building up minutes here and if he continues as he is will be a genuine threat to the starting eleven when everyone is fit. Happy days....

The big deal is that his attitude has never reported to be an issue at Spurs. Not by Conte, not byason and not by Ange. Ange actually complimented his attitude so why are you hanging on to something that has never been said to be a problem at Spurs.

The big deal is that if Ange had given more minutes to Reggie and Spence then maybe his first choice LB would have had a better season form wise (Udogie has largely been brick this season), might actually be fit right now and potentially and very likely our points total and performances would have been better.

We can't be sitting in 12th place halfway through the season and just so blasé wave away any valid criticisms about the usage of the squad so far. If the squad was better used maybe we wouldn't have had such a dire return in the league so far. Let's be honest Spence even in the few games he's had had already been one of our better players this season. Criticism is just that, criticism it doesn't mean Ange out, you don't need to defend every scenario. We are allowed to look and assess what things Ange has done well along with those things we think he hasn't.

 

[glasgowspur]

Can't we just enjoy the fact that he's been outstanding.
Nobody knows the background, maybe he was carrying an injury, maybe he struggled in the system at training.
We will never know, let's look at the positive for once.

 

[harr1984]

The big deal is that his attitude has never reported to be an issue at Spurs. Not by Conte, not byason and not by Ange. Ange actually complimented his attitude so why are you hanging on to something that has never been said to be a problem at Spurs.

The big deal is that if Ange had given more minutes to Reggie and Spence then maybe his first choice LB would have had a better season form wise (Udogie has largely been brick this season), might actually be fit right now and potentially and very likely our points total and performances would have been better.

We can't be sitting in 12th place halfway through the season and just so blasé wave away any valid criticisms about the usage of the squad so far. If the squad was better used maybe we wouldn't have had such a dire return in the league so far. Let's be honest Spence even in the few games he's had had already been one of our better players this season. Criticism is just that, criticism it doesn't mean Ange out, you don't need to defend every scenario. We are allowed to look and assess what things Ange has done well along with those things we think he hasn't.

Anyone is more than entitled to criticise Ange as they see fit, why would it mean you want Ange out? I don't think he's perfect, don't really get your angle there. I'm not sure why you would think anyone at Spurs would ever come out and talk about Spence having issues when trying to loan the player out?

It was mentioned when we signed him about attitude problems - then Conte didn't play him (sure, you can argue because he wasn't his signing), and Ange took a close look at him then quickly shipped him out on loan despite to the naked eye Spence looking like a tailor made Ange full back. Then Leeds cut his loan short, because of his attitude problems according to insiders there. He then goes on loan in Italy, a great opportunity to learn about defending and way of life and mature. Then he returns that summer and that is when Ange compliments his attitude after that loan spell, not before. And then he begins to give him minutes before his injury, and then after injury it took him time to get back playing. Now he is, and he's doing well.

None of us here have the data as to how fit he was after his return to injury to know how much sooner he could have been used, the fact is he is now fit and playing well and Ange recognises that and he is playing him. Agree Reggie could have been used more but again, I don't know the full story as to what has gone on behind closed doors. As for Udogie, he was good for first 6 months last season but tailed off - he is still young, but it's not just about tiredness regarding his problems....

 

[Bullet]

No, that is blatantly not true. He only played Spence when he was forced to. Spence started the season getting hardly any minutes on the bench. As for people peddling this nonsense tthat he was not picked because he was injured is just poppyrooster. He only missed 4 games due to injury starting from the 19 October. How about we just look at the facts:

19 Aug: Leicester away - Spence 89th minute substitute
24 Aug: Everton home - Spence 73th minute substitute
01 Sep Saudi Sportswashing Machine away - Spence unused substitute
15 Sep Arsenal home - Spence unused substitute
18 Sep Coventry away - Spence 46th minute substitute (came on as Udogie had a knock. Scored a goal and was one of the best players on the pitch)
21 Sep Brentford home - Spence unused substitute
29 Sep Man Utd away - Spence 46th minute substitute (came on as Udogie had a knock and looked very good)
06 Oct Brighton away - Spence unused substitute

So it was not until our next match on the 19th October (2 months into the season) that Spence missed his first match due to injury. By this time Spence has played just 108 minutes all season. Now considering Spence was not registered in the Europe League that is not very poor rotation with Porro and Udogie. In fact the only two occasions he played 45 minutes was when Udogie picked up a knock and went off at half time.

19 Oct West Ham home - Unavailable for the first time due to injury
27 Oct Palace away - Unavailable due to injury
30 Oct Emirates Marketing Project home - Unavailable due to injury
03 Nov Villa home - Unavailable due to injury

10 Nov Ipswich away - Spence unused substitute
23 Nov Emirates Marketing Project away - Spence 89 minute substitute
01 Dec Fulham home - Spence unused substitute
05 Dec Bournemouth away - Spence unused substitute
08 Dec Chelsea home - Spence unused substitute
15 Dec Southampton - Wow! at last he starts his first league match of the season

Now overall I am in favour of Ange's stewardship at Spurs. But if he makes a poor decision I will criticise him and the above proves his management of Spence was poor. Not only did Spence not get enough game time but Porro looked knackered as did Udogie before his body finally gave in.

Superb detective work.
Nobody can argue against those facts, right?
Another fact; both Porro and Udogie were run into the ground, whilst Spence warmed up and warmed up and warmed up and warmed up and warmed up and warmed up and warmed up...

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Superb detective work.
Nobody can argue against those facts, right?
Another fact; both Porro and Udogie were run into the ground, whilst Spence warmed up and warmed up and warmed up and warmed up and warmed up and warmed up and warmed up...

Ange did say that Spence’s red card cost us twice because if meant he was suspended for the when he would have replaced udogie in