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Djed Spence

Grays_1890 said:
We have wing backs from Real and Barce, ones stinking it out on loan, the other can't cross a ball. I would argue the success rate for going deeper in the UK for players is better than Europe, especially at Spurs with our long list of Ndombele, Postigas and Soldados
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That's exactly why I brought those two specific clubs up, and in the end it's not really worked out. I'm not saying Reguilon or Royal are disasters, they're just not the level of quality we need to push on and Spence might be in that boat too but we won't know for sure.
 
DeanoAustin said:
You cannot judge a player in one or two games. Is it promising? Yes. Is it definitive proof he's better than Royal and Doherty? No it's not. Playing in a one-off cup game where you're the underdog against weakened Premier League teams who don't place the same priority on the FA Cup as you do is not proof that he can cut it now at this level. We don't know if he offers more going forward than Royal or Doherty. You stick Royal and Doherty down in the Championship and I bet they look much better than they do in our side.



Rose and Walker both had Premier League loans before they broke through with us. It can work to take a player from the Championship and Dawson and Lennon are proof of it. But it can also go horribly wrong. People can protest all they like but reading comments here and on SC or Twitter and there is an expectation around the lad. You can say there isn't but even the post I've quoted above (which is mild compared to others) says that "Spence offers more going forward than either of them and is good defensively". That's an expectation and it's shared by many.

Spence comes into our team and he has a few bad games going forward or makes a few bad decisions, he'll hear the collective groan of 60,000 people. That happens. That can then turn a player more cautious and it becomes a vicious circle. As for him being good defensively, I have my doubts right now. The situation on Wednesday feeds into that albeit I wouldn't judge him too harshly on a 3 minute cameo.

Give him some minutes, give him the cup games. No problem. But if the manager doesn't believe he's ready, there is probably a good reason for it.
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Saying Spence has more going forward than what we have isn't an expectation, it's a relatively low bar.

And so in the example of Rose and Walker, they come from the Championship and both excelled in the PL loan, does that matter? Do we not play at that same level? That's just semantics

And talking about what's on this forum not universal Spurs, this is a Spence thread so people are going to zero in on him, doesn't mean it's over hype or over expectation. As I say we signed bigger and more expensive and they expectations been higher and they have shat the bed.

As I say the bar is relatively low in his area and as we have proven in some games we lose othing trying him out.

As for the Conte comments again, I love the bloke, he is of course more knowledgeable than anyone on here, but that can't be the explanation used for all decisions as it is on all threads because he is sometimes wrong.
 
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Grays_1890 said:
Saying Spence has more going forward than what we have isn't an expectation, it's a relatively low bar.
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Doherty is decent going forward as he proved at Wolves and with Ireland. He was pretty good there last season too. You're talking two international players - Royal and Doherty, while they have limitations, aren't dummies.

So saying Spence is better than them is creating an expectation no matter where the bar is. And it's an expectation none of us can know the accuracy of because he has never been tested at this level. The manager, a guy who has been around top level football successfully for almost 40 years doesn't think he's at the level yet. That has to count for something.
 
DeanoAustin said:
You cannot judge a player in one or two games. Is it promising? Yes. Is it definitive proof he's better than Royal and Doherty? No it's not. Playing in a one-off cup game where you're the underdog against weakened Premier League teams who don't place the same priority on the FA Cup as you do is not proof that he can cut it now at this level. We don't know if he offers more going forward than Royal or Doherty. You stick Royal and Doherty down in the Championship and I bet they look much better than they do in our side.
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How many games have you watched Spence play in the Championship? I'm not judging him on one or two games, I saw countless games last season of him at Forest where he consistently impressed, and before he was even linked to us and I wished we signed him. And no, Royal would not look an better going forward in the Championship:D

Players who are high performers in the Championship tend to go on to do well in the Premier League, there is no question about that and he was in the Championship team of the season. Against Arsenal he was up against Martinelli and had him in his back pocket. I originally said Conte has his reasons, and who am I to question him but lets not pretend that there isn't a fair chance he will prove to be a better WB than either Royal or Doherty. His ceiling is way higher, and he at the very least deserves a chance as neither of the others have been pulling up any trees. But with Conte's safety first nature, I doubt to see him get any real game time bar injuries until next season.....
 
DeanoAustin said:
Doherty is decent going forward as he proved at Wolves and with Ireland. He was pretty good there last season too. You're talking two international players - Royal and Doherty, while they have limitations, aren't dummies.

So saying Spence is better than them is creating an expectation no matter where the bar is. And it's an expectation none of us can know the accuracy of because he has never been tested at this level. The manager, a guy who has been around top level football successfully for almost 40 years doesn't think he's at the level yet. That has to count for something.
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We will have to agree to disagree because there is no universal route to success in football so trying to argue there is, well its not an argument either can win.

I'm summary our RWBs are not great, from a personal perspective and gauging recent performances in my opinion, we lose little trying the lad.

And that's not questioning Conte and his 40 years in football, its a vested interest view. And I can't get into arguments about all people in football being bulletproof on all decisions because they ain't, otherwise no one would get sacked ever
 
harr1984 said:
How many games have you watched Spence play in the Championship? I'm not judging him on one or two games, I saw countless games last season of him at Forest where he consistently impressed, and before he was even linked to us and I wished we signed him. And no, Royal would not look an better going forward in the Championship:D

Players who are high performers in the Championship tend to go on to do well in the Premier League, there is no question about that and he was in the Championship team of the season. Against Arsenal he was up against Martinelli and had him in his back pocket. I originally said Conte has his reasons, and who am I to question him but lets not pretend that there isn't a fair chance he will prove to be a better WB than either Royal or Doherty. His ceiling is way higher, and he at the very least deserves a chance as neither of the others have been pulling up any trees. But with Conte's safety first nature, I doubt to see him get any real game time bar injuries until next season.....
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I've seen Spence a few times in the Championship - once in the flesh. And, yeah, he looked good. Not so good that I got too excited about his signing but he has potential and, as you say, a high ceiling. However, I think Conte's safety first approach is the right approach in this instance.
 
DeanoAustin said:
I've seen Spence a few times in the Championship - once in the flesh. And, yeah, he looked good. Not so good that I got too excited about his signing but he has potential and, as you say, a high ceiling. However, I think Conte's safety first approach is the right approach in this instance.
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I have no issue about you rating a player different to me. Personally I'd like to see him given a go because right now we have such little creativity and he can make things happen. Son is off form, our CMs dont create, Kulu injured, not much from the left side either, he would add a different dimension which we are crying out for more than ever right now. But I dont see Conte going for it anyway...
 
harr1984 said:
I have no issue about you rating a player different to me. Personally I'd like to see him given a go because right now we have such little creativity and he can make things happen. Son is off form, our CMs dont create, Kulu injured, not much from the left side either, he would add a different dimension which we are crying out for more than ever right now. But I dont see Conte going for it anyway...
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What if Spence started at RW instead of RWB for a match? Would that be a safer bet for Conte to try to bed him in?
 
Bedfordspurs said:
No he isn’t a scorer or really known for being a creator
He is a wing back
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He doesn't need to be a finisher like Kane or Son, IMO a winger is so similar to a WB. BTW, I'm saying this because we have Kulu still out injured and Moura is one of those hit-or-miss players that can either do incredible things or be a bit anonymous, but also have to say he's coming back from injury too
Personally, I haven't seen Spence play much and cannot claim he's an answer to anything. I honestly think we need to buy another RWB that's capable of starting ahead of Royal and Doherty, but that's not really Conte's fault.
 
papaspur said:
He doesn't need to be a finisher like Kane or Son, IMO a winger is so similar to a WB. BTW, I'm saying this because we have Kulu still out injured and Moura is one of those hit-or-miss players that can either do incredible things or be a bit anonymous, but also have to say he's coming back from injury too
Personally, I haven't seen Spence play much and cannot claim he's an answer to anything. I honestly think we need to buy another RWB that's capable of starting ahead of Royal and Doherty, but that's not really Conte's fault.
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We don’t need another RWB IMO. We need another player who can play like Kulu down that side. I think we will go for Carasco at atletico who will need the money after their disaster of a CL campaign. He can play either side as wing or wide forward and has the experience that conte craves
 
I think if we'd have simply replaced Doherty with Spence in the game against Man Utd then it would've made no difference at all to the result. There wasn't any bravery in the gameplan from the manager that forced Man Utd to drop their full backs deeper and therefore our wing backs found it almost impossible to get ahead of the ball.
 
Finney Is Back said:
I think if we'd have simply replaced Doherty with Spence in the game against Man Utd then it would've made no difference at all to the result. There wasn't any bravery in the gameplan from the manager that forced Man Utd to drop their full backs deeper and therefore our wing backs found it almost impossible to get ahead of the ball.
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Or on pitch leadership
 
I don’t think anyone has suggested that had Spence played instead of Doherty then we’d have beaten Utd the other night?

it’s been more a general point about getting more from the RWB position that’s clearly underperforming.
 
All this talk of a player the majority of you have probably only watched 2 or 3 times, it’s incredible how some think he will be some superstar if he played in this team.
 
Now that Conte has made it clear that he would rather play Doherty, Emerson, Moura and Sess ahead of Spence at right back we have to send the kid out on loan in January before we totally destroy his confidence
 
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