Djed Spence

[Gazza Dazzla]

I wouldn't be completely against Royal either. Defensively, he's excellent - it's his limitations on the ball in that role that'd put Doherty ahead of him for me.

Spence is the only RWB we have untainted by poor form and performances. We’ll never know until he’s given the chance.

 

[Finney Is Back]

I don't think Doherty actually did that much wrong on Wednesday night. It was difficult for him to get forward because he was being pinned by Man Utd's wide forwards and full backs. Despite that I thought he got himself into some decent positions and situations where we got a ball up to Kane, Kane held off Martinez and fed Dohery looked to be our most likely method of getting a goal. I don't actually lay much blame with any of the players on Wednesday night, I think we were instead done tactically by Ten Hag.

 

[Gazza Dazzla]

I don't think Doherty actually did that much wrong on Wednesday night. It was difficult for him to get forward because he was being pinned by Man Utd's wide forwards and full backs. Despite that I thought he got himself into some decent positions and situations where we got a ball up to Kane, Kane held off Martinez and fed Dohery looked to be our most likely method of getting a goal. I don't actually lay much blame with any of the players on Wednesday night, I think we were instead done tactically by Ten Hag.

No he wasn’t that bad comparatively, it was an average performance from him, far better than a few of our players on the night.

I’m not laying the blame for the other night on him, but looking at the bigger picture and performance’s over a longer period of time, IMO we can’t seem to get much more than 6/10 performance from him (or that position in general). It absolutely has to be a position we are looking to upgrade on, it’s vital to our game plan under Conte.

We bought Spence for decent money, I’ve seen him play a fair few times for Forest and he looked very good. All I’m suggesting is give him a chance, it’s not like Doherty or Royal are making themselves undroppable, far from it IMO.

 

[harr1984]

Spence is the only RWB we have untainted by poor form and performances. We’ll never know until he’s given the chance.

He is also the most talented of the RWBs we have by far. He got MOTM against Arsenal last season, Kyle Walker was unproven until we blooded him. I know Conte will have his reasons and who am I to question him, but its soo annoying because he is the answer to our problems on that side.....

 

[Seedy Ron]

he is the answer to our problems on that side.....

But no pressure, Djed.

 

[harr1984]

But no pressure, Djed.

Why would there be? Its just my opinion, and not like I'm telling him to his face. I'm sure he will make the odd mistake but thats the only way he's going to improve, and he will still have the support of the fans with the way he plays and his energy. He is better than any of our RWBs going forward and is not weak defensively either....

 

[Grays_1890]

Why would there be? Its just my opinion, and not like I'm telling him to his face. I'm sure he will make the odd mistake but thats the only way he's going to improve, and he will still have the support of the fans with the way he plays and his energy. He is better than any of our RWBs going forward and is not weak defensively either....

It makes me laugh. people as mixing up hope with expectation in order to prove a point. I mean people can hold a flame for Royal if they like but lets not try and shame enthusiasm for potential young talent

 

[Bedfordspurs]

In the man U game we had no pace and could not hold on to the ball meaningfully either. Especially with Perisic on we need pace to come from somewhere for some unpredictability and threat.

I agree
Pace is key
Mouras pace isn’t though as he can run but not pass or keep the ball

 

[Seedy Ron]

It makes me laugh. people as mixing up hope with expectation in order to prove a point. I mean people can hold a flame for Royal if they like but lets not try and shame enthusiasm for potential young talent

Prove what point?

Is calling someone the answer to our problems, and better than our other options, not more expectation than hope?

"Hold a flame for Royal" seems rather physician heal thyself tbh, considering he's 1 year & 8 months older than Djed. Youthful enthusiasm doesn't seem to protect him much.

We all want Spence to do well for us (why wouldn't we?), and hopefully at some point he'll become first choice in that position. But he's been here 5 minutes, and Conte clearly doesn't think he's ready for that yet, so is easing him in. That of course isn't good enough for some, and is in fact a slight on the player by the manager.

Let's hope people remember the allowances they're going to make for any errors that cost us goals/games, when he is a regular. They never have before.

 

[DeanoAustin]

There is a huge difference between being excited to see what a young talent can do and placing expectation on him, there is also alot of this twinged with "He cannot be worse than what we are showing" which is not exactly piling on the pressure TBH. As I have said a few times, in some of the games we seem to have played safe and been poor we would have lost absolutely nothing in giving this lad more time and seeing what he can do.

Spence is the only RWB we have untainted by poor form and performances. We’ll never know until he’s given the chance.

Doherty was good against Brighton, good against Everton and far from our worst the other night. He's decent in the role.

I don't get the collective hard-on for Spence. He's a lad we've plucked from the Championship where he was very good but that's a long way off PL level. There seems to be an expectation that he will be much better than we have. I'm not convinced. Even Kyle Walker, arguably England's best right back of the last 50 years, needed a couple of loan spells in the Premier League before he was ready for our starting eleven. Some people are expecting too much of Spence.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Doherty was good against Brighton, good against Everton and far from our worst the other night. He's decent in the role.

I don't get the collective hard-on for Spence. He's a lad we've plucked from the Championship where he was very good but that's a long way off PL level. There seems to be an expectation that he will be much better than we have. I'm not convinced. Even Kyle Walker, arguably England's best right back of the last 50 years, needed a couple of loan spells in the Premier League before he was ready for our starting eleven. Some people are expecting too much of Spence.

He was fine vs united
Didn’t notice sancho. I even went to bed trying to remember who was their left side
Walker had 1 championship loan and 1 prem loan where he got in the team of the season IIRC

 

[Gazza Dazzla]

Doherty was good against Brighton, good against Everton and far from our worst the other night. He's decent in the role.

I don't get the collective hard-on for Spence. He's a lad we've plucked from the Championship where he was very good but that's a long way off PL level. There seems to be an expectation that he will be much better than we have. I'm not convinced. Even Kyle Walker, arguably England's best right back of the last 50 years, needed a couple of loan spells in the Premier League before he was ready for our starting eleven. Some people are expecting too much of Spence.

Sorry, but Doherty has been no more than “ok” when he’s played this season, has he been better than Royal? Yes, but that’s not exactly a high bar and doesn’t mean we shouldn’t be looking to improve there.

RWB has been a weak position for us for a long time now, it’s holding us back. If some people are asking that we see Spence play then it should say everything about the performances of the current 2 players there rather than some grandiose expectation that he’s the 2nd coming of Cafu.

 

[harr1984]

Doherty was good against Brighton, good against Everton and far from our worst the other night. He's decent in the role.

I don't get the collective hard-on for Spence. He's a lad we've plucked from the Championship where he was very good but that's a long way off PL level. There seems to be an expectation that he will be much better than we have. I'm not convinced. Even Kyle Walker, arguably England's best right back of the last 50 years, needed a couple of loan spells in the Premier League before he was ready for our starting eleven. Some people are expecting too much of Spence.

So why did he get MOTM against Arsenal and a goal against Leicester aswell as another very good performance? Just coincidence, and really he could just not possibly compete at that level? No one is expecting too much - the fact is Royal is not a wing back, Doherty is ok but is only talked up on here because he isn’t Royal. Spence offers more going forward than either of them and is good defensively. Sure he is rough round the edges and will no doubt make mistakes, but an athlete who gets up and down the pitch with pace and is good dribbling with the ball and is creative? I’d rather give him a go and see if he sinks or swims, we didn’t spend the money we did for him to be third choice. The expectation isn’t that high, just an exciting prospect who has a decent chance at improving both himself and the team as we get naff all down that right hand side currently….

 

[Grays_1890]

Doherty was good against Brighton, good against Everton and far from our worst the other night. He's decent in the role.

I don't get the collective hard-on for Spence. He's a lad we've plucked from the Championship where he was very good but that's a long way off PL level. There seems to be an expectation that he will be much better than we have. I'm not convinced. Even Kyle Walker, arguably England's best right back of the last 50 years, needed a couple of loan spells in the Premier League before he was ready for our starting eleven. Some people are expecting too much of Spence.

Collective hard on haha

Again it's not anything of the sort, it's an area we struggle with and people are keen to see if a young lad is any better, he may well be, he may well not be.

Is that the sam Championship we plucked the likes of Rose and Walker from and sent them back to get ready for the day to days of football? Same as Dawson and Lennon? To play it down as it never working or never likely to is not accurate IMHO. As I've said before, players have to come from somewhere so why not it be that level and step up? Especially if they finished top of their class last year

 

[papaspur]

Collective hard on haha

Again it's not anything of the sort, it's an area we struggle with and people are keen to see if a young lad is any better, he may well be, he may well not be.

Is that the sam Championship we plucked the likes of Rose and Walker from and sent them back to get ready for the day to days of football? Same as Dawson and Lennon? To play it down as it never working or never likely to is not accurate IMHO. As I've said before, players have to come from somewhere so why not it be that level and step up? Especially if they finished top of their class last year

On the same token, players come here from Barcelona, Real Madrid... not exactly slouches when comparing them to your Wigans, your Birminghams, your Prestons... and meanwhile, we send one of our own players to the Championship, he impresses, and what do you know, he's able to play at a decent PL level.
I don't think any of us has said that Spence is on the same level as Skipp or that he's undoubtedly ready to be our RWB starter for the rest of the season. On the flipside, this is a player that's supposed to be developing so as others have mentioned, that process could be slightly painful as he beds in (if he's deemed to be good enough) but should pay off sooner rather than later. I don't see any pay-off coming with Royal or Doherty.

And as for Royal, I think his defending is quite overrated here. He's not bad at defending by any means, but he's not excellent or great or fantastic. It's also not like anyone wants Royal or Doherty to be awful so Spence can play; imagine if we didn't have to worry about the RWB position.
The fact of the matter though, is that if Spence isn't good enough either in terms of potential, then we need to stop wasting time and get a real player in there.

 

[Grays_1890]

On the same token, players come here from Barcelona, Real Madrid... not exactly slouches when comparing them to your Wigans, your Birminghams, your Prestons... and meanwhile, we send one of our own players to the Championship, he impresses, and what do you know, he's able to play at a decent PL level.
I don't think any of us has said that Spence is on the same level as Skipp or that he's undoubtedly ready to be our RWB starter for the rest of the season. On the flipside, this is a player that's supposed to be developing so as others have mentioned, that process could be slightly painful as he beds in (if he's deemed to be good enough) but should pay off sooner rather than later. I don't see any pay-off coming with Royal or Doherty.

And as for Royal, I think his defending is quite overrated here. He's not bad at defending by any means, but he's not excellent or great or fantastic. It's also not like anyone wants Royal or Doherty to be awful so Spence can play; imagine if we didn't have to worry about the RWB position.
The fact of the matter though, is that if Spence isn't good enough either in terms of potential, then we need to stop wasting time and get a real player in there.

And that's it, you know, people talk in exacting terms "ohhh but they are championship" ok on that token what about the huge fee players from big clubs who have been donks? Hardly and exact science, so makes me laugh when people talk in thise terms, like anythings a guarantee.

As we both say, try him and we find out, and then we know, it's the only way we will know. We know enough already about those in that role around him and i wouldn't say with any certainty that they position is a lock out

 

[billyiddo]

I bet you there is a higher success rate with players from the championship than any other league

 

[papaspur]

I bet you there is a higher success rate with players from the championship than any other league

To continue my point from earlier, how many teams do we see get relegated from the PL and then struggle in the CH the following season? I get there's a lot of attrition regarding players but they get parachute payments and all that... it's a tough level of football and incredibly competitive.

 

[Grays_1890]

To continue my point from earlier, how many teams do we see get relegated from the PL and then struggle in the CH the following season? I get there's a lot of attrition regarding players but they get parachute payments and all that... it's a tough level of football and incredibly competitive.

We have wing backs from Real and Barce, ones stinking it out on loan, the other can't cross a ball. I would argue the success rate for going deeper in the UK for players is better than Europe, especially at Spurs with our long list of Ndombele, Postigas and Soldados

 

[DeanoAustin]

So why did he get MOTM against Arsenal and a goal against Leicester aswell as another very good performance? Just coincidence, and really he could just not possibly compete at that level? No one is expecting too much - the fact is Royal is not a wing back, Doherty is ok but is only talked up on here because he isn’t Royal. Spence offers more going forward than either of them and is good defensively. Sure he is rough round the edges and will no doubt make mistakes, but an athlete who gets up and down the pitch with pace and is good dribbling with the ball and is creative? I’d rather give him a go and see if he sinks or swims, we didn’t spend the money we did for him to be third choice. The expectation isn’t that high, just an exciting prospect who has a decent chance at improving both himself and the team as we get naff all down that right hand side currently….

You cannot judge a player in one or two games. Is it promising? Yes. Is it definitive proof he's better than Royal and Doherty? No it's not. Playing in a one-off cup game where you're the underdog against weakened Premier League teams who don't place the same priority on the FA Cup as you do is not proof that he can cut it now at this level. We don't know if he offers more going forward than Royal or Doherty. You stick Royal and Doherty down in the Championship and I bet they look much better than they do in our side.

Collective hard on haha

Again it's not anything of the sort, it's an area we struggle with and people are keen to see if a young lad is any better, he may well be, he may well not be.

Is that the sam Championship we plucked the likes of Rose and Walker from and sent them back to get ready for the day to days of football? Same as Dawson and Lennon? To play it down as it never working or never likely to is not accurate IMHO. As I've said before, players have to come from somewhere so why not it be that level and step up? Especially if they finished top of their class last year

Rose and Walker both had Premier League loans before they broke through with us. It can work to take a player from the Championship and Dawson and Lennon are proof of it. But it can also go horribly wrong. People can protest all they like but reading comments here and on SC or Twitter and there is an expectation around the lad. You can say there isn't but even the post I've quoted above (which is mild compared to others) says that "Spence offers more going forward than either of them and is good defensively". That's an expectation and it's shared by many.

Spence comes into our team and he has a few bad games going forward or makes a few bad decisions, he'll hear the collective groan of 60,000 people. That happens. That can then turn a player more cautious and it becomes a vicious circle. As for him being good defensively, I have my doubts right now. The situation on Wednesday feeds into that albeit I wouldn't judge him too harshly on a 3 minute cameo.

Give him some minutes, give him the cup games. No problem. But if the manager doesn't believe he's ready, there is probably a good reason for it.