Dele Alli

[AdamB]

I'll feel a massive sense of loss if he goes because I know he'll go and be great somewhere else. But it doesn't seem to be working with Jose so it might be best for all concerned if he does go. I don't blame Jose for that...sometimes these things happen.

I feel a bit sorry for the lad and only wish him good things if he leaves (as long as it's not against us).

I dont think its a Jose thing - he needs to find a team which plays a system which suit him. He's not a midfielder or wide man so needs to be played as a no 10 and with creativity coming from elsewhere. He cant play as a no 10 with only pace outside him as the team lacks creativity otherwise

Hopefully he'll succeed...just not in England!

 

[SteveAWOL]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1311275522849230849

 

[Raziel]

I'd bet he plays tomorrow .. we will see if the kick up the ass worked

 

[AdamB]

I'd bet he plays tomorrow .. we will see if the kick up the ass worked

Even if it has, I'm not sure it resolves the bigger question of how he fits in a formation with Bale, Kane and Son. If you play dele behind Kane in a 4-2-3-1 then you dont have a creator in that front 4. If we go 4-3-3 or 3-4-3, then Dele doesnt fit in either. Dele previously worked well when playing behind Kane due to Eriksen being on the left of the '3' in a 4-2-3-1 - it gave some creativity. I'm not sure it works now

 

[braineclipse]

Even if it has, I'm not sure it resolves the bigger question of how he fits in a formation with Bale, Kane and Son. If you play dele behind Kane in a 4-2-3-1 then you dont have a creator in that front 4. If we go 4-3-3 or 3-4-3, then Dele doesnt fit in either. Dele previously worked well when playing behind Kane due to Eriksen being on the left of the '3' in a 4-2-3-1 - it gave some creativity. I'm not sure it works now

With Ndombele or Lo Celso as one of the two in the deep midfield roles I think it could work.

 

[braineclipse]

Good article on the Athletic on Alli now.

Impression from Mourinho that Dele wasn't fully focused, head turned by other clubs, but Dele feels he isn't distracted.

Mourinho unhappy with Dele's performance against Shkendija. Dele said to have reacted positively to being dropped. Training well. Expected to stay, Levy wants him to stay, Mourinho more ambivalent though fond of Dele, no real offers.

Questions about how to fit him into the system going forward, Dele knows he has to adapt and react well. In consideration for the game tonight, could even start.

 

[Raziel]

Even if it has, I'm not sure it resolves the bigger question of how he fits in a formation with Bale, Kane and Son. If you play dele behind Kane in a 4-2-3-1 then you dont have a creator in that front 4. If we go 4-3-3 or 3-4-3, then Dele doesnt fit in either. Dele previously worked well when playing behind Kane due to Eriksen being on the left of the '3' in a 4-2-3-1 - it gave some creativity. I'm not sure it works now

Opinion, it doesn't ..

Said it in another thread, Dele can't displace any of front three, or the three CMs

Agreed, players we have will likely be (full strength) some variation on a 4-3-3 or 5 at back (with the FBs up), so your 3-4-3

Likely useful rotation option until we get out of fixture congestion and/or Bale and Son back to full fitness.

So you have a player that could fetch a good fee, no obvious first team position and is on decent wages ..

 

[Bishop]

I dont think its a Jose thing - he needs to find a team which plays a system which suit him. He's not a midfielder or wide man so needs to be played as a no 10 and with creativity coming from elsewhere. He cant play as a no 10 with only pace outside him as the team lacks creativity otherwise

Hopefully he'll succeed...just not in England!

That's the exact assesment. It worked with Eriksen because he was that source of team creativity.

 

[Bishop]

With Ndombele or Lo Celso as one of the two in the deep midfield roles I think it could work.

A 4321 with Dele means only one of Lo Celso or Ndombele will play. They will also be positioned deeper and will have primarily CM duties to contend with and neither is a pure playmaker like Eriksen was.

So we would be putting ourselves in the same position as previously where we rely on one player in the entire team to get the football moving but that player wouldn't be as specialised and suited to said role as Eriksen was previously.

Even when we did play that way with Eriksen we need MORE creativity in the side not less. Going back to an inferior version of that to fit Dele in seems a bit short sighted.

A good team isn't about just picking your "best players" it's about creating a team shape and system that gets the best out of your squad.

 

[braineclipse]

A 4321 with Dele means only one of Lo Celso or Ndombele will play. They will also be positioned deeper and will have primarily CM duties to contend with and neither is a pure playmaker like Eriksen was.

So we would be putting ourselves in the same position as previously where we rely on one player in the entire team to get the football moving but that player wouldn't be as specialised and suited to said role as Eriksen was previously.

Even when we did play that way with Eriksen we need MORE creativity in the side not less. Going back to an inferior version of that to fit Dele in seems a bit short sighted.

A good team isn't about just picking your "best players" it's about creating a team shape and system that gets the best out of your squad.

This season rotation will be even more important than it usually is. We should also expect injuries. I think there will be games to go around.

I also think that with Bale over Moura, Reguilon over Davies (for some games at least) and either Doherty or a more rested and competitive Aurier we can definitely get creativity from more players. We also have Hojbjerg who is a lot more creative than Sissoko. If we get Bergwijn into form I also think he has it in him to be quite creative.

Time will tell, I think he has it in him to once again become a very important player for us.

 

[Diamond Lights]

am sure someone else has said this, but Mourinho has worked with the biggest names in football. Just have to trust he knows what he's doing, and i don't mean specifically for Dele here just generally. If he still has the magic, and this is his call, then it's what needs to happen either way.

 

[billyiddo]

am sure someone else has said this, but Mourinho has worked with the biggest names in football. Just have to trust he knows what he's doing, and i don't mean specifically for Dele here just generally. If he still has the magic, and this is his call, then it's what needs to happen either way.

He has a not so minor list of players he has cast aside that went on to big things - so not sure blind faith in his judgement on players is warranted.

Ultimately managers decision needs to be final though, right or wrong

 

[Diamond Lights]

He has a not so minor list of players he has cast aside that went on to big things - so not sure blind faith in his judgement on players is warranted.

Ultimately managers decision needs to be final though, right or wrong

totally agree just look at Salah and De Bruyne. However, must also be said that neither set the world alight when they left, took them a few years. In fact Salah was nowhere near this level at Fiorentina when he left, he had a good record, but not this level we see at Liverpool.

 

[Modric THFC]

Reports are that we were interested in selling him.
To me it's very like how the Eriksen scenario played out.
A player wasn't risked before the transfer in case he got injured.

Now it looks like any potential transfer has fallen through and back he comes.

 

[Jurgen the German]

He has a not so minor list of players he has cast aside that went on to big things - so not sure blind faith in his judgement on players is warranted.

Ultimately managers decision needs to be final though, right or wrong

Every manager makes mistakes. Fergie openly admitted many times he made a mistake selling Jaap Stam. Poch let Walker go which we kind of had to really but he thought Trippier would be an adequate replacement but many of us on here called it that Walker was the better player and there would be a drop off. Ultimately I hope he stays and improves but I do see the argument for selling him also.

I take the points about there being extenuating circumstances; injuries, key players being sold that provide for Alli and not being replaced to a high enough standard, being played out of position. But purely from Alli’s own development I’m really struggling to see where he has improved in the last 3 years. He still does the improvisational stuff that not many players can do. But I compare him to Kane and Son (perhaps unfairly as they are better players than Alli) and it’s clear to see how Kane’s passing somehow seems to get better every year when he was always world class at. Son has become more creative. I just don’t see any areas where Alli has definitely improved. I’m not saying he isn’t working hard behind the scenes to improve his game but I don’t see any evidence in the games.

 

[billyiddo]

Every manager makes mistakes. Fergie openly admitted many times he made a mistake selling Jaap Stam. Poch let Walker go which we kind of had to really but he thought Trippier would be an adequate replacement but many of us on here called it that Walker was the better player and there would be a drop off. Ultimately I hope he stays and improves but I do see the argument for selling him also.

I take the points about there being extenuating circumstances; injuries, key players being sold that provide for Alli and not being replaced to a high enough standard, being played out of position. But purely from Alli’s own development I’m really struggling to see where he has improved in the last 3 years. He still does the improvisational stuff that not many players can do. But I compare him to Kane and Son (perhaps unfairly as they are better players than Alli) and it’s clear to see how Kane’s passing somehow seems to get better every year when he was always world class at. Son has become more creative. I just don’t see any areas where Alli has definitely improved. I’m not saying he isn’t working hard behind the scenes to improve his game but I don’t see any evidence in the games.

The whole discussion on Alli is centered on him regressing due to the factors you mention - so im unsure as to why you keep asking about where he has improved?

The argument is that if there is a role for him similar to that which he played when he was last consistently playing well that it can kick start his development once again/he can become an effective player in terms of attacking output. As far as i can see literally no one is making the argument that he has been developing well these past couple of years...

 

[Jurgen the German]

The whole discussion on Alli is centered on him regressing due to the factors you mention - so im unsure as to why you keep asking about where he has improved?

The argument is that if there is a role for him similar to that which he played when he was last consistently playing well that it can kick start his development once again/he can become an effective player in terms of attacking output. As far as i can see literally no one is making the argument that he has been developing well these past couple of years...

Well, some posters have claimed his regression/lack of progression is due to the factors outlined above rather than Alli underperforming or not improving his own game. That’s literally what it comes down to for me. I’d love to see him regain the form he showed in his first two seasons and I hope we don’t sell him. That said, I don’t see where he fits in this team and who he replaces in either a 4-3–3 or a 4-2-3-1. Jose has to give Alli a chance of course, but it’s then up to Alli to make himself undroppable again like he was when we first signed him.

 

[milo]

Well, some posters have claimed his regression/lack of progression is due to the factors outlined above rather than Alli underperforming or not improving his own game.

Put a name on it @Jurgen the German

 

[billyiddo]

Well, some posters have claimed his regression/lack of progression is due to the factors outlined above rather than Alli underperforming or not improving his own game. That’s literally what it comes down to for me. I’d love to see him regain the form he showed in his first two seasons and I hope we don’t sell him. That said, I don’t see where he fits in this team and who he replaces in either a 4-3–3 or a 4-2-3-1. Jose has to give Alli a chance of course, but it’s then up to Alli to make himself undroppable again like he was when we first signed him.

Well, surely everyone thinks there are contributing factors for Alli's stagnation rather than just thinking he stopped playing well for no reason? Is that your position??

I mean do you think it's a coincidence that a player who was scoring goals and getting assists regularly in a forward position stops scoring goals and getting assists when played deeper? Do you not see the correlation?

He's clearly not suited to or been able to adapt his game to a new role, i don't think there's any doubting that, but if we play a tactic that suits his previous style then it would it makes sense to see if he can rediscover his form.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Well, surely everyone thinks there are contributing factors for Alli's stagnation rather than just thinking he stopped playing well for no reason? Is that your position??

I mean do you think it's a coincidence that a player who was scoring goals and getting assists regularly in a forward position stops scoring goals and getting assists when played deeper? Do you not see the correlation?

He's clearly not suited to or been able to adapt his game to a new role, i don't think there's any doubting that, but if we play a tactic that suits his previous style then it would it makes sense to see if he can rediscover his form.

I’ve stated more than once I agree there are extenuating circumstances for his form; injuries, failing to replace players, being played out of position. So no that isn’t my position.

He wasn’t played out of position for 3 years. At the start he was. I accept its a factor and possibly it was the catalyst for the initial lack of goals but that was years ago now so it’s not relevant to even this season, last season or the season before that tbh.