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Dele Alli

Maybe the Son injury will bring Dele back into the fold. Not like for like by any means but he did a lot of good work off the left in the early Eriksen days. Could really push up and support Kane with Regulion attacking down that side.
 
Jurgen the German said:
Re your question, i don’t see Son struggling when Kane is injured, still scores goals. Even last season when Eriksen was sold and Kane was injured, Son scored the winner in more than one game IIRC.

Can I ask why you didn’t mention the 17/18 season? This for me is when his progress started to stagnate. Scored half as many goals as the season before. And yes I acknowledge he was played out of position at times.

Can I ask you if you think he’s undeniably a better player now than he was in 15/16 - 16/17? Because for me and lots of others he isn’t. He hasn’t kicked on. That isn’t just the opinion of a handful of grumpy posters on here. Seems to be conventional wisdom that he hasn’t kicked on. Southgate dropped him from the England set up entirely when Poch was manager, he used to be a nailed on starter. Jose has now dropped on. Are you saying both of them are wrong? And a sizeable portion of our fan base outside of GG who go to games are also wrong? Levy even said it in All or Nothing. He said 3 years “he was here” whilst pointing upward.

It’s that simple for me. I’m not saying he can’t become a great player for us again but he doesn’t deserve to be in the team based on the last 3 years for me sorry.
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Do you think his relative decline in form means he doesn’t deserve to be on the bench too?
We may have to look at that exceptional season as just that, Lampard scored 22 in a season but more often than not would only hit half that.
There’s been a few things that have impacted Alli and it is fair to say these are elements that do make him a bit of a luxury player:
Playing out of position, as he has dropped deeper his instinctive touches have less value. His finishing what still good enough by most metrics does not seem has razor sharp as it was, perhaps because he now overthinks the game due to the positional change / more pressure on him to deliver.
This may be disproved but I did feel he played his best when it was him Kane and Erisken. Son of course has made himself one of the first names on the team sheet but it the crafted attacks through the middle and Kane and Eriksen’s vision helped him as he knew he could make runs and be found. Now if he makes those runs and doesn’t get the ball he is out of position.
He scored 1 in 3 in an injury hit season in a not particularly good team last year, that would be a best ever for Lamela or Moura and similar to what a Sonny usually delivers.
The Southgate factor is something I’ve mentioned before - Southgate player him in midfield to accommodate Sterling where I thought he showed some good performances but in that position he can’t hurt teams or dovetail with Kane. Post that injury for England he’s not been quite the same and whilst I’m not a huge fan of Southgate’s team selection it could be evidence that behind the scenes Dele is not delivering what he should. I note Grealish and Maddison aren’t particularly fancied by him either, which can only be based on behavior rather than ability imo.
Might be interesting to see if he plays on the left instead of Son and that gives him a new lease of life as he can focus on making runs rather than trying to balance being more of an 8 than a 10 in our current set up. I agree there are question marks about where he fits in the team but I really don’t think his fall from grace is as drastic as him not being good enough for our bench during our tactical transition under Jose. If Jose doesn’t think he can use him at all then best for all that he gets sold, but that doesn’t mean he’s not a decent player who may flourish under a different regime.
 
Benny_Lad said:
Maybe the Son injury will bring Dele back into the fold. Not like for like by any means but he did a lot of good work off the left in the early Eriksen days. Could really push up and support Kane with Regulion attacking down that side.
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I was just about to post the same thing albeit in a much more long winded post I started writing a day ago!
 
MKSpur said:
Do you think his relative decline in form means he doesn’t deserve to be on the bench too?
We may have to look at that exceptional season as just that, Lampard scored 22 in a season but more often than not would only hit half that.
There’s been a few things that have impacted Alli and it is fair to say these are elements that do make him a bit of a luxury player:
Playing out of position, as he has dropped deeper his instinctive touches have less value. His finishing what still good enough by most metrics does not seem has razor sharp as it was, perhaps because he now overthinks the game due to the positional change / more pressure on him to deliver.
This may be disproved but I did feel he played his best when it was him Kane and Eriksen-sen-sen. Son of course has made himself one of the first names on the team sheet but it the crafted attacks through the middle and Kane and Eriksen’s vision helped him as he knew he could make runs and be found. Now if he makes those runs and doesn’t get the ball he is out of position.
He scored 1 in 3 in an injury hit season in a not particularly good team last year, that would be a best ever for Lamela or Moura and similar to what a Sonny usually delivers.
The Southgate factor is something I’ve mentioned before - Southgate player him in midfield to accommodate Sterling where I thought he showed some good performances but in that position he can’t hurt teams or dovetail with Kane. Post that injury for England he’s not been quite the same and whilst I’m not a huge fan of Southgate’s team selection it could be evidence that behind the scenes Dele is not delivering what he should. I note Grealish and Maddison aren’t particularly fancied by him either, which can only be based on behavior rather than ability imo.
Might be interesting to see if he plays on the left instead of Son and that gives him a new lease of life as he can focus on making runs rather than trying to balance being more of an 8 than a 10 in our current set up. I agree there are question marks about where he fits in the team but I really don’t think his fall from grace is as drastic as him not being good enough for our bench during our tactical transition under Jose. If Jose doesn’t think he can use him at all then best for all that he gets sold, but that doesn’t mean he’s not a decent player who may flourish under a different regime.
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Great points. When you look at Alli's goals he relies on his runs being found. Alistair Gold done a good video yesterday where he said Moura delivered one cross on Sunday. How is that possible for a right footer playing on the right and with us being on top for so long. No wonder Alli has struggled through the last year with the supply line completely cut off. And as you say - he still found some goals and often overlooked is he doesn't take penalties.
 
MKSpur said:
Do you think his relative decline in form means he doesn’t deserve to be on the bench too?
We may have to look at that exceptional season as just that, Lampard scored 22 in a season but more often than not would only hit half that.
There’s been a few things that have impacted Alli and it is fair to say these are elements that do make him a bit of a luxury player:
Playing out of position, as he has dropped deeper his instinctive touches have less value. His finishing what still good enough by most metrics does not seem has razor sharp as it was, perhaps because he now overthinks the game due to the positional change / more pressure on him to deliver.
This may be disproved but I did feel he played his best when it was him Kane and Eriksen-sen-sen. Son of course has made himself one of the first names on the team sheet but it the crafted attacks through the middle and Kane and Eriksen’s vision helped him as he knew he could make runs and be found. Now if he makes those runs and doesn’t get the ball he is out of position.
He scored 1 in 3 in an injury hit season in a not particularly good team last year, that would be a best ever for Lamela or Moura and similar to what a Sonny usually delivers.
The Southgate factor is something I’ve mentioned before - Southgate player him in midfield to accommodate Sterling where I thought he showed some good performances but in that position he can’t hurt teams or dovetail with Kane. Post that injury for England he’s not been quite the same and whilst I’m not a huge fan of Southgate’s team selection it could be evidence that behind the scenes Dele is not delivering what he should. I note Grealish and Maddison aren’t particularly fancied by him either, which can only be based on behavior rather than ability imo.
Might be interesting to see if he plays on the left instead of Son and that gives him a new lease of life as he can focus on making runs rather than trying to balance being more of an 8 than a 10 in our current set up. I agree there are question marks about where he fits in the team but I really don’t think his fall from grace is as drastic as him not being good enough for our bench during our tactical transition under Jose. If Jose doesn’t think he can use him at all then best for all that he gets sold, but that doesn’t mean he’s not a decent player who may flourish under a different regime.
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No, I don’t think he should be excluded from the squad entirely. He’s a better player than Bergwijn, Lamela and Moura. Where he will actually fit in the team is another debate but he’s not regressed that much to the point where he doesn’t get in the squad. No argument there.

I don’t want him to be sold but it’s on Alli to get himself back into the team again and make himself undroppable like he was his first two seasons. He needs to improve his overall play. Because he is not as good as he was in 15/16 - 16/17. I don’t think that’s even debatable but others may disagree and that’s fine. Son’s goals have remained consistent over the years, with negligible drops at best. But he has also improved his creativity, him and De Bruyne were the only players in the league last season with double figures in goals and assists. His overall play has got better. If you’re really going to nitpick then I’d say Son should be aiming for 20 league goals provided he stays fit but he’s arguably our most important player after Kane.

We don’t see what happens in training but Alli needs to dedicate himself to improving his game like Son and Kane have. He may have been trying to do so in training but I’m just not seeing evidence in the games.
 
Benny_Lad said:
Great points. When you look at Alli's goals he relies on his runs being found. Alistair Gold done a good video yesterday where he said Moura delivered one cross on Sunday. How is that possible for a right footer playing on the right and with us being on top for so long. No wonder Alli has struggled through the last year with the supply line completely cut off. And as you say - he still found some goals and often overlooked is he doesn't take penalties.
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It is a good point, but the best players also create goals for themselves. Alli doesn’t have Son’s pace or dribbling ability but he does have raw talent and can do special things. Failing that he needs to figure out when to keep things simple and when to try something extravagant.
 
DeanoAustin said:
That's him done here. Seems like he's our Juan Mata/Adrian Mutu or whoever. Jose always has someone that doesn't fit. I often wonder if he's trying the old Orson Welles trick.
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If he's still here when the window closes, he might focus and force his way back into the team.
 
DeanoAustin said:
That's him done here. Seems like he's our Juan Mata/Adrian Mutu or whoever. Jose always has someone that doesn't fit. I often wonder if he's trying the old Orson Welles trick.
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I’ve not really got an issue with him leaving tbh

he’s clearly got an attitude and a fresh start might focus him

if he is pushing for a move and given how much crap Mopo got for playing Christian I can’t see this having many against it.
 
Legohamster said:
I’ve not really got an issue with him leaving tbh

he’s clearly got an attitude and a fresh start might focus him

if he is pushing for a move and given how much crap Mopo got for playing Christian I can’t see this having many against it.
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Not sure about the attitude as that’s a presumption
But a leave could be good for all parties
 
Jurgen the German said:
No, I don’t think he should be excluded from the squad entirely. He’s a better player than Bergwijn, Lamela and Moura. Where he will actually fit in the team is another debate but he’s not regressed that much to the point where he doesn’t get in the squad. No argument there.

I don’t want him to be sold but it’s on Alli to get himself back into the team again and make himself undroppable like he was his first two seasons. He needs to improve his overall play. Because he is not as good as he was in 15/16 - 16/17. I don’t think that’s even debatable but others may disagree and that’s fine. Son’s goals have remained consistent over the years, with negligible drops at best. But he has also improved his creativity, him and De Bruyne were the only players in the league last season with double figures in goals and assists. His overall play has got better. If you’re really going to nitpick then I’d say Son should be aiming for 20 league goals provided he stays fit but he’s arguably a storm trooper mutiny pal after Kane.

We don’t see what happens in training but Alli needs to dedicate himself to improving his game like Son and Kane have. He may have been trying to do so in training but I’m just not seeing evidence in the games.
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I was really surprised by Son’s assist stats actually as his one weakness for me is he didn’t necessarily see the final pass or know when it is the right option! But for goals and the threat on the country he’s undroppable at the mo, up there with Kane. The right side will potentially be Bale, with Moura and Lamela competing to help see out games with their defence work and rotate with him whilst he builds up fitness.
I thought I saw a real determination from Dele in the pre season to operate as a more rounded midfielder and I think the Everton sub was harsh on him and negatively impacted the team.
What I hope he doesn’t do is turn into the new Jenas, using his athleticism to snuff out the ball and then giving it safe. There must be a temptation on his part to think he can easily do what Winks does which in turn gives him a route back into the team. If the situation is that we need to raise funds for a CF and a CB and this is heightened by the lack of takers or discounting needed for the likes of Rose, Foyth etc you can see an argument for cashing in, even though his ability is higher than the a few players we agree on especially as his role to date has been different. It could be a pivotal season for him however it pans out position and club wise , probably the first time in his career he’s ever had any self doubt and I really hope he can overcome it.
 
Legohamster said:
I’ve not really got an issue with him leaving tbh

he’s clearly got an attitude and a fresh start might focus him

if he is pushing for a move and given how much crap Mopo got for playing Christian I can’t see this having many against it.
Click to expand...
I’m not sure about the attitude bit tbh, Poch was a demanding trainer and everything I’ve seen on the pitch tells me he’s trying but maybe it’s not quite coming off or there’s something off the ball he’s being asked to do but not delivering.
There was never any talk about him leaving us until Jose started hooking him and dropping him from the squad. When he hooked Dier he quickly returned to the fold so maybe there’s a specific reaction he was looking for but if a player isn’t getting into the team at all then I understand and support why they would want to go.
 
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