Daniel Levy - Chairman

[Finney Is Back]

It's nonsense that fans somehow sway the chairman to make a managerial change. It's usually money that will be the deciding factor.

Take Nuno for example, he came in tied to the narrative that he was somehow a desperate appointment after other managers had turned us down. Then, as if to confirm the narrative, he was sacked because, like most new managers, he had an uneven start and Levy's head had already been turned that summer by the shiny toy of Conte (whether or not he was the right fit for the club). If he'd been a serious appointment, Levy would have stood by him.

Now he may not have worked here but he wasn't given a chance and he was treated appallingly. It's pleasing to see him doing well now, just a shame it's not at our club.

He was a desperate appointment after several managers had turned us down. If Conte was the right manager then should've been appointed in the summer. As I've said before it is strange that our club only feels able to offer the required money and transfer budget when things get desperate or the stadium start to turn on the owners

 

[billyiddo]

I agree that you can't always get players who are your first choice. However, I also have it on good authority that some of the players that Pochettino wanted were entirely 'gettable'. I don't blame him for getting to the point where he would turn down the cheaper, less proven alternatives, after he'd done so many times previously and the players we gave him were proven to be considerably worse than the ones he wanted.

He had a couple of years of taking Hitchens/The Clubs alternatives to his suggestions and it resulted in us with a load of crap outside of the first XI - can see why at some point he had to draw the line.

 

[Finney Is Back]

I don't know how true that was mate and I have my doubts given he only managed for 10 PL games won 5 and lost 5. But from the outside, it appeared that Levy had fruitlessly courted Conte the previous summer. Then when Conte became available he gave Nuno the boot.

'became available' = 'upped the offer in terms of wages and transfer budget compared to that offered in the summer'

 

[Finney Is Back]

I am sure he said in an interview he was listening to players over too much and Nuno sacking was one of them. Maybe I am misremembering.

But I was there for the United game and thats the most I have seen the crowd ever turn on a manager, it was toxic and the calls for him to go were very audible.

Ultimately Nuno was the wrong man for the club IMO

I was also there. The majority of the ire was against the owners. Levy then pulled out his 5 card trick in sacking the manager and appointing a new shiny toy for the fans.

 

[Grays_1890]

I was also there. The majority of the ire was against the owners. Levy then pulled out his 5 card trick in sacking the manager and appointing a new shiny toy for the fans.

Not sure on this one TBH, Nuno was getting absolute pelters round me, he was absolutely cooked even in that short space. We want Nuno out was ringing round for a long long time that night, was heightened when he took Moura out.

 

[thfcsteff]

@Raziel ...recently, you suggested that a question I point I had made regarding Daniel's reluctance to pay to get managerial targets was off-base (I believe you said that a decent conversation had to have some basis of fact!)...

I have been trying to think of a time when we have paid a get-out clause. I can't. I believe Poch had to pay 2mil to get out of Soton (not sure if the club covered that somehow).

I do remember that we did not persue Nagelsman because it would've been at least 10 mil, and he rumour around Slot was that we were haggling over the 15 mil compensation fee, Slot saw that and was put off (admittedly not established fact other than he had a release clause we did not meet).

Where he has paid for managers is when the fingers get itchy. Eye-watering amounts. Nuno got 14 mil!!!!! Here's a graphic which does not include Conte's pay-off.

I think given history, it is safe to predict that IF he decides to jump ship again, Daniel will not be paying Bournemouth, Saudi Sportswashing Machine or anyone compensation.

 

[Mcfee]

'became available' = 'upped the offer in terms of wages and transfer budget compared to that offered in the summer'

It was an embarrassing episode all round from the moment Mourinho went until Nuno was sacked. It was obvious at the time that we didn’t really want him - the equivalent of a “panic-buy” after months of searching. To treat a manager who always comes across as dignified and who’d done a very good job at Wolves like that was inappropriate to put it mildly. I’ve never heard Nuno say a bad word about us in public since then (open to correction) and for his sake I really hope Forest make the top 4 this season.

You’d wonder if this kind of behaviour comes back to bite us when sounding out potential recruits. I also think that ditching Ange at this point would only reinforce any negative perceptions that may exist about how we go about our business.
Edit:
Just saw Steff’s pay-off figures above and yes Nuno was well compensated financially but it still doesn’t detract from the shabbiness of the whole affair imo.

 

[Raziel]

Not sure on this one TBH, Nuno was getting absolute pelters round me, he was absolutely cooked even in that short space. We want Nuno out was ringing round for a long long time that night

Levy can be blamed for appointing him too, but the fans wanted Nuno gone, so did the players

I was there, you were right, my opinion

- Nuno logic was sound (and no it doesn't matter if he was first/third/fifth choice). To me, club was in a toxic place, squad needed a rebuild, giving it to someone who could do a job for a couple of years (had just taken Wolves to 6th or 7th, logic that is proven with Forest would have been he could have done 1 or 2 spots higher with Spurs), and post rebuild, if we wanted to go for a "big name" we could

The issues
- Media/fans branded Nuno as Jose Mk2 and there was this whole view of it was going to be more bore-fest football (I'll get back to this point), with 3 atb
- Kane, we were clearly trying to appease Kane to keep him (and probably a few other senior players)

What this resulted in was (my opinion), Nuno felt his hands were tied from day 1, he moved away from 3 atb, and tried to play a style that wasn't really his (the one time he got a pass was first game against City, without Kane and we won), fans jumped on his back at first loss and the result was inevitable. In my opinion it is the most fan influenced decision the club has ever made.

Now, should Levy have said "fudge off", sold those senior players and given Nuno a better chance? maybe, but this comes down to the same current situation, it's risk mitigation, are you sure enough of the current manager to stay course, or do you bet on change, for Nuno, Conte was available and the risk calculation came up with one result.

 

[Raziel]

It was an embarrassing episode all round from the moment Mourinho went until Nuno was sacked. It was obvious at the time that we didn’t really want him - the equivalent of a “panic-buy” after months of searching. To treat a manager who always comes across as dignified and who’d done a very good job at Wolves like that was inappropriate to put it mildly. I’ve never heard Nuno say a bad word about us in public since then (open to correction) and for his sake I really hope Forest make the top 4 this season.

You’d wonder if this kind of behaviour comes back to bite us when sounding out potential recruits. I also think that ditching Ange at this point would only reinforce any negative perceptions that may exist about how we go about our business.
Edit:
Just saw Steff’s pay-off figures above and yes Nuno was well compensated financially but it still doesn’t detract from the shabbiness of the whole affair imo.

Define we? fans didn't want him, see my post above, there was logic in his choice. And btw, agree with you re Nuno as a human

IF you go watch the pre-match recently before they played us, reporters repeatedly tried to bait him into saying something bad about us, his time here, guy refused.

 

[thfcsteff]

It was an embarrassing episode all round from the moment Mourinho went until Nuno was sacked. It was obvious at the time that we didn’t really want him - the equivalent of a “panic-buy” after months of searching. To treat a manager who always comes across as dignified and who’d done a very good job at Wolves like that was inappropriate to put it mildly. I’ve never heard Nuno say a bad word about us in public since then (open to correction) and for his sake I really hope Forest make the top 4 this season.

You’d wonder if this kind of behaviour comes back to bite us when sounding out potential recruits. I also think that ditching Ange at this point would only reinforce any negative perceptions that may exist about how we go about our business.
Edit:
Just saw Steff’s pay-off figures above and yes Nuno was well compensated financially but it still doesn’t detract from the shabbiness of the whole affair imo.

I agree 100% re: Nuno. It was awful. He showed (and has shown) enormous dignity. I am happy for him to be getting respect again (albeit I think Forest are a poor watch!)...

 

[thfcsteff]

Define we? fans didn't want him, see my post above, there was logic in his choice. And btw, agree with you re Nuno as a human

IF you go watch the pre-match recently before they played us, reporters repeatedly tried to bait him into saying something bad about us, his time here, guy refused.

Indeed. Seems to be total and utter class doesn't he.

 

[glasgowspur]

He had a couple of years of taking Hitchens/The Clubs alternatives to his suggestions and it resulted in us with a load of crap outside of the first XI - can see why at some point he had to draw the line.

When the club are giving you Sissoko, and two wingers from France that I can't even remember along with Clarke I think he had the right to be wary of what he was being offered.
For that reason I view whatever hoddle and pleat say about him refusing players with a very cynical eye. I think I'd be refusing players as well if that is the standard you think is acceptable.

 

[thfcsteff]

One place where Daniel's general thought process could prove of enormous benefit on the football side right now is in the fitness/sports science area. I wonder if he will be going hell bent right now looking to find (and pay for) the very best physios/s&c/sports science the club can buy? You'd suspect he has given Lange a remit to find that. Let's hope, because getting to the very forefront of this right now is vital, with football going through the sort of structural changes that are seeing player loads exploding...

...either that or see if Heinz-Muller Wolfheart is still available LOL!!!!

 

[Raziel]

One place where Daniel's general thought process could prove of enormous benefit on the football side right now is in the fitness/sports science area. I wonder if he will be going hell bent right now looking to find (and pay for) the very best physios/s&c/sports science the club can buy? You'd suspect he has given Lange a remit to find that. Let's hope, because getting to the very forefront of this right now is vital, with football going through the sort of structural changes that are seeing player loads exploding...

...either that or see if Heinz-Muller Wolfheart is still available LOL!!!!

100%, was some paper talk recently that we are reviewing the medical department but I think even more broadly is what I think you are going for

- In a world where too many fixtures is the norm, how do you manage player load, recovery, rotation more optimally. Also how do you get managers to buy in?

 

[SpurMeUp]

Lol, you think a rebuild consists of £100m and just 3 first team players?

Also, if you really do think that £100m and 3 first team players is a rebuild then surely you actually allow the incumbent manager to actually integrate and play his 3 new first team playears. Especially when that manager had outperformed his resources relative to his peers for 5 seasons in a row previously)

The board thinking we had a terrific squad is a massive mistake. They had a manager, in fact the most successful manager of ENIC's whole tenure at Spurs in terms of league position, telling them that we needed a rebuild. Levy allowing Pochettino to spend £100m and bring in 3 new first team players only to sack him before Pochettino had a chance to integrate those 3 new players was absolutely terrible leadership. Either back the manager properly or sack him in the summer and give the next patsy the money to spend instead.

Totally.

But you have to also admit that Poch’s signings that summer - well over 100m with Le Celco - were a massive failure. Or you thought they were good signings?

 

[Raziel]

@Raziel ...recently, you suggested that a question I point I had made regarding Daniel's reluctance to pay to get managerial targets was off-base (I believe you said that a decent conversation had to have some basis of fact!)...

I have been trying to think of a time when we have paid a get-out clause. I can't. I believe Poch had to pay 2mil to get out of Soton (not sure if the club covered that somehow).

I do remember that we did not persue Nagelsman because it would've been at least 10 mil, and he rumour around Slot was that we were haggling over the 15 mil compensation fee, Slot saw that and was put off (admittedly not established fact other than he had a release clause we did not meet).

Where he has paid for managers is when the fingers get itchy. Eye-watering amounts. Nuno got 14 mil!!!!! Here's a graphic which does not include Conte's pay-off.

I think given history, it is safe to predict that IF he decides to jump ship again, Daniel will not be paying Bournemouth, Saudi Sportswashing Machine or anyone compensation.

My point is/was we are absolutely capable of paying eye watering amounts for both salaries (and clearly pay-outs)

Honestly don't know re Slot (IIRC was a lot of conflicting reports at time), Nagelsman you might be 100% right, but think it was more than that (one, he was technically fired at time, Bayern was trying to not do their payout, he got interviewed by a number of clubs and nobody went for him, so not sure that's a just us).

Is the payout going to be a holdback? maybe, but again, lets look at the most obvious target

- Iriola is reportedly earning 1M/yr on a contract till 2026, do we really feel if Levy felt the pressure to change Ange, we wouldn't pay 2-3M to buy him out?

My point is (and I accept your counter/concern that historically we haven't paid buy out fees that either of us know/remember), there seems to be some weird view that if we change Ange, it's impossible for Spurs to get another equivalent/better manager, yet

- Like them or not, suited or not, Conte/Jose were big names
- Your data shows we pay well (on the way out of door included)
- Managers take risk even at obvious fudged up clubs, see Poch at Chelsea, Amorim right now risking his future at United (with yes a higher profile club, but in a way worse state and far less suited to him)

Honestly if we don't have an alternative at some reasonably developed stage of validation right now, that's a huge fudge up on the part of Munn, Lange and Levy.

 

[thfcsteff]

100%, was some paper talk recently that we are reviewing the medical department but I think even more broadly is what I think you are going for

- In a world where too many fixtures is the norm, how do you manage player load, recovery, rotation more optimally. Also how do you get managers to buy in?

I think there is a wider issue within football with our injuries, and it is exactly what you ask in the second paragraph. The game is changing hugely right now, and this current lot of players are the guinea pigs :-(

 

[Finney Is Back]

I was there, you were right, my opinion

- Nuno logic was sound (and no it doesn't matter if he was first/third/fifth choice). To me, club was in a toxic place, squad needed a rebuild, giving it to someone who could do a job for a couple of years (had just taken Wolves to 6th or 7th, logic that is proven with Forest would have been he could have done 1 or 2 spots higher with Spurs), and post rebuild, if we wanted to go for a "big name" we could

The issues
- Media/fans branded Nuno as Jose Mk2 and there was this whole view of it was going to be more bore-fest football (I'll get back to this point), with 3 atb
- Kane, we were clearly trying to appease Kane to keep him (and probably a few other senior players)

What this resulted in was (my opinion), Nuno felt his hands were tied from day 1, he moved away from 3 atb, and tried to play a style that wasn't really his (the one time he got a pass was first game against City, without Kane and we won), fans jumped on his back at first loss and the result was inevitable. In my opinion it is the most fan influenced decision the club has ever made.

Now, should Levy have said "fudge off", sold those senior players and given Nuno a better chance? maybe, but this comes down to the same current situation, it's risk mitigation, are you sure enough of the current manager to stay course, or do you bet on change, for Nuno, Conte was available and the risk calculation came up with one result.

WTF?…. Levy was trying to appease Kane by appointing Nuno as manager?!?

 

[Finney Is Back]

Define we? fans didn't want him, see my post above, there was logic in his choice. And btw, agree with you re Nuno as a human

IF you go watch the pre-match recently before they played us, reporters repeatedly tried to bait him into saying something bad about us, his time here, guy refused.

That would’ve been part of his compromise agreement.

 

[Finney Is Back]

One place where Daniel's general thought process could prove of enormous benefit on the football side right now is in the fitness/sports science area. I wonder if he will be going hell bent right now looking to find (and pay for) the very best physios/s&c/sports science the club can buy? You'd suspect he has given Lange a remit to find that. Let's hope, because getting to the very forefront of this right now is vital, with football going through the sort of structural changes that are seeing player loads exploding...

...either that or see if Heinz-Muller Wolfheart is still available LOL!!!!

We don’t pay the money to get the best of anything when it comes to the football side of things.