Daniel Levy - Chairman

[thfcsteff]

Thanks Steff; a balanced and reasonable post imo....looking forward to the responses and hopefully good debate...

Thanks mate.
The biggest problems we will face, both as a club and supporters, is the thumping expectations for instant results versus the realities of our club.
We are probably three or four years away from launching ourselves into the 'next' level. Pooch's approach is absolutely correct IMO. Develop our young squad, continue our youth development and watch the squad mature when the stadium is built, supported by other youth talents ready to step up. Then we get the naming rights money. Then we fill the stadium. Then we make a proper run for the title. Then we break top 4. Then we might be in with a shot of sustaining it.

Looks good on paper eh?!!! ;-)

 

[milo]

Well @milo, @billyiddo I think Stef put up a good argument for why maybe Levy's 'methods' can be called into question here: http://www.glory-glory.co.uk/community/threads/charlie-austin.7202/page-5#post-727910
His comments about our N'Jie pursuit were certainly food for thought, and could certainly be given as a well thought out argument as to what 'went wrong' this summer.

I agree it is a good post and I think that it is good because it is balanced and reasoned. I wish that more critical posts were written this way.

 

[StephenH]

I think it is pretty clear that the Berahino thing became a tinkleing contest. What we will never know is whether Peace would've sold if we had offered 20 mill earlier. It appears this was about more than simply money. Schneiderlin before last season was a massive mistake IMO. This was a player Poch wanted, and a player who wanted to come to us at that time. We blew that one simply because we weren't decisive early enough. I have to question WHY we waited so long AGAIN this summer to make our purchases, and we can only deduce that once again, Daniel tried to play a few games. Where I think he has come out somewhat OK, is not over-paying for Berahino, although time will tell whether this player would've been the difference between an extra 8-12 points this season and a happier manager. I think Levy's biggest triumph here is that he is slowly weaning himself from 'the game' of 'the window' although once again, we see the whole Adebayor thing blowing up, whereby the player refuses to go unless his contract is paid up in full and Levy refuses to do that. As long as he backs Poch, as long as he gives Poch what he needs and as long as he is in with Poch and Mitchell for a few years, then it is all good IMO. The worst would be for him to lose his bottle come Xmas if we are not looking hot and tin-tack them.

Schniederlin I agree, was a great miss but I believe we needed to put up much more cash or maybe all cash due to our poor relationship with Southampton, wasn't going to happen. They Man U, paid a purported £27m and I would have thought paid a good wage.

Our big problem as the Berahino abortion showed us, you must make an offer they find difficult to say no to "greed is good". This definitely not possible with EPL based player for us ATM

 

[E3zzle]

@E3zzle

It's getting a bit pedantic here but anyway - "one of his top priorities" is not "his top priority", which you suggested... Do you not agree with the logic behind why MP would think it important to trim the squad, put forward by myself and others?

Re transfers, i said it was important that the people involved know their roles and are all pulling in the same direction...you said you disagreed, what do you disagree with there?

Better late than never I guess...

Ok, I worded myself poorly. Big deal. I still think it's wierd that this is mentioned as an important goal for the season, while adding a striker and dm isn't. You see, my point is in the statement this is put out as one of Poch's main priorities. I would assume the coach is more concerned with having the players he wants and needs than getting players off the wage bill. The latter is Levy's concern, and I fully understand the need to do so. However in the statement this is sold to us as more important to Poch than adding players to key positions. You may well believe this is the case, but I don't. But yes, I can see that there are advantages to trimming the squad to the manager as well. However, I don't think Poch would mind keeping Soldado and Stambouli.

You said something along the lines of "Isn't this the important thing?" I may have misinterpreted, and if that's the case there's no point discussing it further. I'm not convinced they've been pulling in the same direction in the past, but hopefully this is sorted now.

 

[billyiddo]

I think you may be reading too much in to the statement - they list the things we done this summer and said they were among Poch's priorities, for me I can see that is likely to be the case for reasons previously mentioned (improve the defence/cut players surplus to requirements) they don't say it was more important than adding a striker/CM or that doing so wasn't also a priority, in fact we can infer from the statement that were pushing for Berahino and that Poch would rather have the right man than just any man and that he thinks that we have options in N'Jie and Son which meant we didn't have to allow ourselves to be held to ransom.



Personally I'd have liked Austin as a direct replacement for Kane, however it doesn't seem like it was a type of player we were ever looking to buy, we targeted forwards who can play wide as well (Berahino/Martial) - so knowing we have N'jie a CF for Lyon who can play wide and Son a wide player who supposedly(?) can play CF then I think it should be quite clear we at least have some options for Poch to work with and maybe this is why we chose not to over pay for Berahino

 

[glasgowspur]

Is it possible we didn't go for Austin because that's not how poch intends to play if Harry isn't available?

 

[milo]

Is it possible we didn't go for Austin because that's not how poch intends to play if Harry isn't available?

I think that is quite likely

 

[glasgowspur]

I'm glad some agrees, the players we've signed and seem to be targeting make me think that when poch gets the them we will be a more dynamic team. There been glimpses of it with the front four interchanging and that's what I reckon he is moving toward.

 

[DubaiSpur]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...after-patience-snaps-over-Victor-Wanyama.html

Southampton reluctant to do transfer business with Tottenham after patience snaps over Victor Wanyama
Saints have grown exasperated with Tottenham during recent dealings and do not want to sell to a direct rival

Southampton are adamant that they will not sell Victor Wanyama to Tottenham Hotspur next year for any price and have also become extremely reluctant to do business with Spurs for any other player.

Like several other Premier League clubs, Southampton have grown exasperated with Tottenham during various recent dealings although their principal reason for refusing to sell them players is that they regard Mauricio Pochettino’s team as a direct rival.

Spurs tried to buy Morgan Scheniderlin last summer and were also interested in Victor Wanyama this year. On both occasions, the player became agitated and pushed to leave but the internal unrest was not then accompanied by what Southampton regarded as a serious bid.

Tottenham’s only offer for Schneiderlin last summer was £10 million and it is understood that they made a similarly low bid this year for Wanyama.

Spurs also annoyed West Bromwich Albion this summer over their pursuit of Sadio Berahino, with the Midlands club ultimately refusing to sell and clearly exasperated by the tactics of Tottenham chairman Daniel Levy.

They felt that Spurs left it unrealistically late and regarded some of their offers as derisory.

• Saido Berahino deletes controversial tweet

West Ham United were similarly annoyed earlier this year when they tried to take Emmanuel Adebayor on loan, with Levy unwilling for Spurs to subsidise part of Adebayor’s wages despite agreeing to such a deal for Queens Park Rangers or Crystal Palace.

David Gold, the West Ham United co-owner, later said that “no matter how hard you try, there are people out there that you just can’t do business with”.

Manchester United also became reluctant to recruit players from Tottenham under Sir Alex Ferguson after their experience of buying Michael Carrick and then Dimitar Berbatov from Levy. Ferguson did, however, concede that Levy’s tactics were “no bad thing from his club’s perspective”.

Tottenham have succeeded in taking manager Mauricio Pochettino and some of his backroom staff, notably head of recruitment Paul Mitchell, from Southampton but any effort to resurrect a deal for Wanyama, or Jay Rodriguez, who they were also interested in, will be immediately rejected.

• Emmanuel Adebayor faces bleak future at Tottenham

Southampton eventually got £24 million – more than double Tottenham’s previous valuation – from Manchester United for Schneiderlin this summer after refusing to sell him last year. They are confident that their decision to say ‘no’ last month to Wanyama and Sadio Mano, who was a late transfer window target for Manchester United, will send a consistent message both to the rest of the squad and other clubs.

Southampton’s strategy is to produce from inside the academy or intelligently scout emerging players, such as Mane and Juanmi.

They are not then interested in selling those players to clubs, including Tottenham, who they regard as direct competitors. Every significant Southampton sale over the last three transfer windows has been to Manchester United, Arsenal or Liverpool.




Again, seems a bit contradictory (we hate you! Direct rivals! No way we'll sell! Buuut....you bid too low and too late, what were you thinking?), but essentially...doesn't surprise me.

 

[StephenH]

I think these lower teams think we are as daft as Manchester United! - buy from Europe much better value

 

[Gazza]

I think these lower teams think we are as daft as Manchester United! - buy from Europe much better value

Alot of our problems in the market are highlighted. Good premier league players are always going to command a premium, especially since things really are tight in the league. These so called less fashionable clubs now have money and can afford to wait for teams like Liverpool, Chelsea, Manchester United, Emirates Marketing Project to come in with silly money.

We have to structure our payments, and in doing so we have to do late deals to prevent others from coming in and offering more money and forcing our hand.

This works financially but in my opinion detrimental to the team.

Hopefully once the stradium is built and we still have fans that have accepted current mediocrity, we can build and attract better players with a better transfer policy.

 

[StephenH]

The players want to come to us - but as you correctly say we cannot throw our money around ATM.

The silly money being paid for likes of Martial are making the likes of Southampton and WBA thinking we are a soft touch. I am so pleased we are sticking to our spending plans.

If it is not financially right, it's not right! This should be rule number one!

 

[Robspur12]

I agree it is a good post and I think that it is good because it is balanced and reasoned. I wish that more critical posts were written this way.

While it's a good post it's no more balanced and reasoned than other posts I have seen on Levy and based on just as much speculation (sorry Steff). Dubai for example always writes very well reasoned posts which are very critical of Levy's transfer policy. Just because you do not agree with the reasoning doesn't mean the argument is not put forward in a reasoned way.

It is perfectly well reasoned to say for example:-

* despite the club statement, we needed another striker which is why we were making 2 bids for berahino on the last day of the window. We didn't get one so we have a pressing need in the squad not filled and the manager will have to try and fit players into unfamiliar roles. This is likely to affect our team's competitiveness this season.

* that if you really want a striker, the selling club holds the cards especially when they are emboldened by the Possibility of the TV money so you either meet their asking price or forget it especially late in the window

*We also failed to bring in a defensive midfielder so we need to continue playing an inexperienced centre back in that position, who is likely to get found out at some point in the season.

*levy is a great chairman but in many ways his player purchasing sucks. He has failed to bring in key players identified by his managers in 3 of the last 4 summer transfer windows. He also failed to do so in Ramos window. This will affect the competitiveness and success of the team and has cost managers their jobs ultimately.

* that the TV money means that the "smaller" clubs are buying or loaning players in the ball park that we would have been looking at. If we want to finish ahead of them we need to be more successful with our transfer targets once identified.

What we don't need is posters then countering with nonsense suggesting we are "sky sports" fans or deluded fans who should be more grateful. As I have said before there does not have to be consensus just respect for opposing viewpoints. But I guess that's just what happens on forums.

 

[milo]

While it's a good post it's no more balanced and reasoned than other posts I have seen on Levy and based on just as much speculation (sorry Steff). Dubai for example always writes very well reasoned posts which are very critical of Levy's transfer policy. Just because you do not agree with the reasoning doesn't mean the argument is not put forward in a reasoned way.

It is perfectly well reasoned to say for example:-

* despite the club statement, we needed another striker which is why we were making 2 bids for berahino on the last day of the window. We didn't get one so we have a pressing need in the squad not filled and the manager will have to try and fit players into unfamiliar roles. This is likely to affect our team's competitiveness this season.

* that if you really want a striker, the selling club holds the cards especially when they are emboldened by the Possibility of the TV money so you either meet their asking price or forget it especially late in the window

*We also failed to bring in a defensive midfielder so we need to continue playing an inexperienced centre back in that position, who is likely to get found out at some point in the season.

*levy is a great chairman but in many ways his player purchasing sucks. He has failed to bring in key players identified by his managers in 3 of the last 4 summer transfer windows. He also failed to do so in Ramos window. This will affect the competitiveness and success of the team and has cost managers their jobs ultimately.

* that the TV money means that the "smaller" clubs are buying or loaning players in the ball park that we would have been looking at. If we want to finish ahead of them we need to be more successful with our transfer targets once identified.

What we don't need is posters then countering with nonsense suggesting we are "sky sports" fans or deluded fans who should be more grateful. As I have said before there does not have to be consensus just respect for opposing viewpoints. But I guess that's just what happens on forums.

I have never seen someone suggesting that anyone criticising Levy is a Sky sorts fan.

The problem that I have with your other points is that they are reliant on your interpretation of events being true. What if they are not? What if Poch did want a DM and a striker but would rather work with what we have than sign players that he does not want?

I disagree with you about @DubaiSpur too. I think that his posts are too often clouded by his anger at where we are as a club and are too subjective as a result.

 

[parklane1]

While it's a good post it's no more balanced and reasoned than other posts I have seen on Levy and based on just as much speculation (sorry Steff). Dubai for example always writes very well reasoned posts which are very critical of Levy's transfer policy. Just because you do not agree with the reasoning doesn't mean the argument is not put forward in a reasoned way.

It is perfectly well reasoned to say for example:-

* despite the club statement, we needed another striker which is why we were making 2 bids for berahino on the last day of the window. We didn't get one so we have a pressing need in the squad not filled and the manager will have to try and fit players into unfamiliar roles. This is likely to affect our team's competitiveness this season.

* that if you really want a striker, the selling club holds the cards especially when they are emboldened by the Possibility of the TV money so you either meet their asking price or forget it especially late in the window

*We also failed to bring in a defensive midfielder so we need to continue playing an inexperienced centre back in that position, who is likely to get found out at some point in the season.

*levy is a great chairman but in many ways his player purchasing sucks. He has failed to bring in key players identified by his managers in 3 of the last 4 summer transfer windows. He also failed to do so in Ramos window. This will affect the competitiveness and success of the team and has cost managers their jobs ultimately.

* that the TV money means that the "smaller" clubs are buying or loaning players in the ball park that we would have been looking at. If we want to finish ahead of them we need to be more successful with our transfer targets once identified.

What we don't need is posters then countering with nonsense suggesting we are "sky sports" fans or deluded fans who should be more grateful. As I have said before there does not have to be consensus just respect for opposing viewpoints. But I guess that's just what happens on forums.

Now I know you are joking after reading the bolded bit.

 

[Robspur12]

I have never seen someone suggesting that anyone criticising Levy is a Sky sorts fan.

The problem that I have with your other points is that they are reliant on your interpretation of events being true. What if they are not? What if Poch did want a DM and a striker but would rather work with what we have than sign players that he does not want?

I disagree with you about @DubaiSpur too. I think that his posts are too often clouded by his anger at where we are as a club and are too subjective as a result.

I am not going to point to individual posts but they are there in this thread.

I'm sure Poch would not want us to sign players that he doesn't want or intend to use. To me that suggests that the manager has identified those players where he has no alternatives as both realistic and critical. If you want success then you have to get the manager his man if he is so critical. So Levy should have done more to get his man. Berahino in my opinion,was gettable as WBA had publicly pointed out unlike Everton who said their man was not for sale. Levy must also accept that if he fails to get players that his manager's identify that he cannot complain if the results do not follow. Now I am fully aware that it is impossible to always get your man but we have examples going back as far as failing to get Scott Parker when Glenn hoddle was in charge demonstrating Levy not bringing in critical players and the managers then losing their jobs. As I have said I only hope that is not the case for Poch.

 

[milo]

I am not going to point to individual posts but they are there in this thread.

I'm sure Poch would not want us to sign players that he doesn't want or intend to use. To me that suggests that the manager has identified those players where he has no alternatives as both realistic and critical. If you want success then you have to get the manager his man if he is so critical. So Levy should have done more to get his man. Berahino in my opinion,was gettable as WBA had publicly pointed out unlike Everton who said their man was not for sale. Levy must also accept that if he fails to get players that his manager's identify that he cannot complain if the results do not follow. Now I am fully aware that it is impossible to always get your man but we have examples going back as far as failing to get Scott Parker when Glenn hoddle was in charge demonstrating Levy not bringing in critical players and the managers then losing their jobs. As I have said I only hope that is not the case for Poch.

I think that our transfer policy at the moment has more in common with Arsenal's than other PL clubs. We have invested in developing youth players and our emphasis is on bringing them through and on finding value in the transfer market. Whether we like it or not, that means that we are not going to pay whatever it takes to gets the manager's first choice targets.

 

[Robspur12]

I think that our transfer policy at the moment has more in common with Ar5ena1's than other PL clubs. We have invested in developing youth players and our emphasis is on bringing them through and on finding value in the transfer market. Whether we like it or not, that means that we are not going to pay whatever it takes to gets the manager's first choice targets.

Agree but then the manager cannot be held solely accountable when results do not go as intended.

 

[milo]

Agree but then the manager cannot be held solely accountable when results do not go as intended.

I agree and who is to say he will be?

 

[Robspur12]

I agree and who is to say he will be?

Well I presume levy will not sack himself.