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Daniel Levy - Chairman

can't say I've seen any reasoned critique of levy, just pram shaking and toy throwing

I think some are struggling to come to terms with the modern reality of football, you finish where you spend, right now we are spending money carefully with focus so that we can have more of it in the future
 
galeforce said:
can't say I've seen any reasoned critique of levy, just pram shaking and toy throwing

I think some are struggling to come to terms with the modern reality of football, you finish where you spend, right now we are spending money carefully with focus so that we can have more of it in the future
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Quite right.
How can anybody give reasoned criticism of any subject, when they only know the outcome/result, without the slightest knowledge of how the results were arrived at?

Its like calling the Everton game as a 'stalemate' just because it was 0-0!
 
StephenH said:
Quite right.
How can anybody give reasoned criticism of any subject, when they only know the outcome/result, without the slightest knowledge of how the results were arrived at?

Its like calling the Everton game as a 'stalemate' just because it was 0-0!
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Well, by that notion then:

  • how can anybody criticise ANY of our managers when all they know is the end results, and not the training and preparation beforehand behind the scenes
  • how can anybody criticise any of our players if they play brick; after all we don't know how they train and what tactical instructions they are given when they enter the field; maybe Paulinho and Soldado were told to play as brick as possible as a tactic to lull the opposition into a false sense of security
  • how can anybody criticise Tim Sherwood pr Harry Redknapp for their gobbrick/rent-a-quote personas; maybe behind the scenes they are tactical thespians that had the misfortune to work with players too thick to understand much more than 4-4-2, hit it up to the big man and how to 'shuffle across a bit'
  • how can anybody criticise our fans and the boos that sometimes happen; maybe there are just a smattering of fans that just clearing their throats en masse at the end of the games and it is all misunderstood.

I'm not a big Levy basher on the whole, but i don't think it's a case that only those "totally in the know behind the scenes" can offer up some reasoned criticism of his transfer dealings. To suggest otherwise means all my scenarios above are mostly true..
 
glorygloryeze said:
Well, by that notion then:

  • how can anybody criticise ANY of our managers when all they know is the end results, and not the training and preparation beforehand behind the scenes
  • how can anybody criticise any of our players if they play ****; after all we don't know how they train and what tactical instructions they are given when they enter the field; maybe Paulinho and Soldado were told to play as **** as possible as a tactic to lull the opposition into a false sense of security
  • how can anybody criticise Tim Sherwood pr Harry Redknapp for their gobbrick/rent-a-quote personas; maybe behind the scenes they are tactical thespians that had the misfortune to work with players too thick to understand much more than 4-4-2, hit it up to the big man and how to 'shuffle across a bit'
  • how can anybody criticise our fans and the boos that sometimes happen; maybe there are just a smattering of fans that just clearing their throats en masse at the end of the games and it is all misunderstood.

I'm not a big Levy basher on the whole, but i don't think it's a case that only those "totally in the know behind the scenes" can offer up some reasoned criticism of his transfer dealings. To suggest otherwise means all my scenarios above are mostly true..
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How did we play against Everton?
 
Difference is the criticism is just based on the end result, in this case no CF signing, and when that is countered with some reasoning it's often dismissed as just making excuses.

As for your examples I don't think they're anything more than some poor misdirection/whataboutery tbh

No one has said not signing a CF is a good thing, afaik, but there are reasons why it happened that way beyond it just being a case of fudging up
 
billyiddo said:
Difference is the criticism is just based on the end result, in this case no CF signing, and when that is countered with some reasoning it's often dismissed as just making excuses.

As for your examples I don't think they're anything more than some poor misdirection/whataboutery tbh
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My point is, we are football fans mostly - not insider agents etc (though no doubt some on here are). What else can we judge Levy/transfers etc on but the end result?
If Levy can be criticised it is ultimately going to be in the end result - just like most things related to football by us football fans.

Just like Levy was praised on his stadium/NFL announcements, he can be criticised for other things such as transfer dealings imo. The stadium plans/NFL is an 'end result' in this case as it showed what he and ENIC had been working on behind the scenes for a while. So if Levy can get praised for that 'end result' he can be fairly criticised for aspects of the transfer window 'end result', e.g. having Kane as our only bonafide striker.

The funny thing about the praise Levy gets for the stadium/NFL announcements and plans is that there may be people with 'insideer' knowledge who might feel he doesn't deserve much praise as he didn't get the best deal etc when he could have. The 'end result' can work both ways.:p
 
This is not aimed at you @glorygloryeze but I do not think that the best way to compensate for a lack of knowledge about what goes on behind the scenes is hyperbole which is what many do. It is the same with the posters who only turn up on the forum after we have lost a game and carry on like it is the end of the world. It adds nothing to the debate.
 
milo said:
This is not aimed at you @glorygloryeze but I do not think that the best way to compensate for a lack of knowledge about what goes on behind the scenes is hyperbole which is what many do. It is the same with the posters who only turn up on the forum after we have lost a game and carry on like it is the end of the world. It adds nothing to the debate.
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Ahh, Hyperbole; isn't that an internet forum's best friend?;)
 
glorygloryeze said:
Indeed, but that is often what makes forum's go round and round (in a good and bad sense imo)
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I don't think it does much because there is nowhere you can go with an argument that is clearly wrong. It is perfectly possible to put together a well thought out argument about where we went wrong this summer but I don't recall seeing one yet.
 
glorygloryeze said:
My point is, we are football fans mostly - not insider agents etc (though no doubt some on here are). What else can we judge Levy/transfers etc on but the end result?
If Levy can be criticised it is ultimately going to be in the end result - just like most things related to football by us football fans.

Just like Levy was praised on his stadium/NFL announcements, he can be criticised for other things such as transfer dealings imo. The stadium plans/NFL is an 'end result' in this case as it showed what he and ENIC had been working on behind the scenes for a while. So if Levy can get praised for that 'end result' he can be fairly criticised for aspects of the transfer window 'end result', e.g. having Kane as our only bonafide striker.

The funny thing about the praise Levy gets for the stadium/NFL announcements and plans is that there may be people with 'insideer' knowledge who might feel he doesn't deserve much praise as he didn't get the best deal etc when he could have. The 'end result' can work both ways.:p
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You could take every single discussion on here to such a minuscule level that you can't really say anything on the subject - but ultimately on this topic people are putting forward some sound logical reasons why it isn't a black and white/right or wrong scenario which i've yet to see countered...
 
glorygloryeze said:
My point is, we are football fans mostly - not insider agents etc (though no doubt some on here are). What else can we judge Levy/transfers etc on but the end result?
If Levy can be criticised it is ultimately going to be in the end result - just like most things related to football by us football fans.

Just like Levy was praised on his stadium/NFL announcements, he can be criticised for other things such as transfer dealings imo. The stadium plans/NFL is an 'end result' in this case as it showed what he and ENIC had been working on behind the scenes for a while. So if Levy can get praised for that 'end result' he can be fairly criticised for aspects of the transfer window 'end result', e.g. having Kane as our only bonafide striker.

The funny thing about the praise Levy gets for the stadium/NFL announcements and plans is that there may be people with 'insideer' knowledge who might feel he doesn't deserve much praise as he didn't get the best deal etc when he could have. The 'end result' can work both ways.:p
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Sound like you are trying to convince yourself more then anything/anybody else.
 
glorygloryeze said:
Well @milo, @billyiddo I think Stef put up a good argument for why maybe Levy's 'methods' can be called into question here: http://www.glory-glory.co.uk/community/threads/charlie-austin.7202/page-5#post-727910
His comments about our N'Jie pursuit were certainly food for thought, and could certainly be given as a well thought out argument as to what 'went wrong' this summer.
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I think it is pretty clear that the Berahino thing became a tinkling contest. What we will never know is whether Peace would've sold if we had offered 20 mill earlier. It appears this was about more than simply money. Schneiderlin before last season was a massive mistake IMO. This was a player Poch wanted, and a player who wanted to come to us at that time. We blew that one simply because we weren't decisive early enough. I have to question WHY we waited so long AGAIN this summer to make our purchases, and we can only deduce that once again, Daniel tried to play a few games. Where I think he has come out somewhat OK, is not over-paying for Berahino, although time will tell whether this player would've been the difference between an extra 8-12 points this season and a happier manager. I think Levy's biggest triumph here is that he is slowly weaning himself from 'the game' of 'the window' although once again, we see the whole Adebayor thing blowing up, whereby the player refuses to go unless his contract is paid up in full and Levy refuses to do that. As long as he backs Poch, as long as he gives Poch what he needs and as long as he is in with Poch and Mitchell for a few years, then it is all good IMO. The worst would be for him to lose his bottle come Xmas if we are not looking hot and tin-tack them.
 
thfcsteff said:
I think it is pretty clear that the Berahino thing became a tinkleing contest. What we will never know is whether Peace would've sold if we had offered 20 mill earlier. It appears this was about more than simply money. Schneiderlin before last season was a massive mistake IMO. This was a player Poch wanted, and a player who wanted to come to us at that time. We blew that one simply because we weren't decisive early enough. I have to question WHY we waited so long AGAIN this summer to make our purchases, and we can only deduce that once again, Daniel tried to play a few games. Where I think he has come out somewhat OK, is not over-paying for Berahino, although time will tell whether this player would've been the difference between an extra 8-12 points this season and a happier manager. I think Levy's biggest triumph here is that he is slowly weaning himself from 'the game' of 'the window' although once again, we see the whole Adebayor thing blowing up, whereby the player refuses to go unless his contract is paid up in full and Levy refuses to do that. As long as he backs Poch, as long as he gives Poch what he needs and as long as he is in with Poch and Mitchell for a few years, then it is all good IMO. The worst would be for him to lose his bottle come Xmas if we are not looking hot and tin-tack them.
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Thanks Steff; a balanced and reasonable post imo....looking forward to the responses and hopefully good debate...
 
DTA said:
I don't think you were saying that when they were both playing for us (until their exclusion)
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I never slag off a player mercilessly when playing for us, but if you look back, you will see I threw the towel in on Capoue not long after he threw towel in on us (early in his Spurs career) and as for Stambouli, I was never a big fan as he was simply average.
 
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